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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Emma Hughes on Tuesday 02 June 15 14:23 BST (UK)
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Can anyone with local knowledge tell me this location. On the census record my ancestor has written he comes form a place that looks like Scomsham. It has been indexed as Scomsham on Ancestry but I cant find any mention of this place on the map. I would like to look up his birth record in the parish but I don't know which to look in until I decipher this...
Many thanks for your help
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
What is the persons name and year of birth?
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I would hazard a guess at Keynsham :)
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Hi Emma
Welcome to rootschat :)
Welcome to Rootschat :)
What is the persons name and year of birth?
George Bowring - 1851 Wales Census - H0107/2456 f342 p42
There are a few to choose from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Somerset#S
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It could be a misreading by the enumerator of the original household schedule.
FamilySearch has a George BOWERING baptised on 25 June 1826 at Lympsham, Somerset. L can easily be misread as S (and vice versa).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6CH-PY2
Just a possibility.
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His M/C will give his Fathers name/occp;
George BOWRING, Sept 1849, Cardiff, 26 489
Gwenllian WILLIAMS on same page
Trish :)
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It is George Bowring estimated year of birth 1805 I think or maybe later if the apparant age gap is correct. Perhaps he was born more like 1825. There are two census with him on with his wife and her child in Cardiff.
-1851 appears to show age 26 and place of birth Somerset, Scomsham (I agree it could be Keynsham)
(wife aged 48!?)
-1861 appears to show age 37 and place of birth just Somerset
(wife aged 55!? seems like a big gap however she seems to have a son from a previous marriage AGED 18)
I'm so confused. I took up family history a week ago and while it is fascinating it is also infuriating. I thought if I could work out which parish I could search everything for a George Bowring but I haven't had any success. I thought the age gap must have been a mistake
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Wow thank you both. Sorry what is M/C?
Marriage certificate, I see. Thank you very much for that. I would never have guessed Lympsham
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It is George Bowring estimated year of birth 1805 I think
I think his age in 1851 has been misread by Ancestry's transcribers as 46, but it is written 26 -- compare the figure 4 in Gwenllian's age on the line below? It's always best to look at the original images, if you can, because the transcriptions may contain errors. ;)
Lympsham is nothing more than a guess, based on what can be found online for that name. It would be best to order the marriage certificate as suggested above, to get his father's name/occupation.
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I think you are right. It is a big age gap but the 1861 census does seem to suggest the same gap. Does anyone know why all the entries on the census appear to have been crossed through with lines?
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These are tally-marks rather than crossings out -- just the government statistician's way of marking the data that had to be collected.
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In case you haven't seen this ...
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SOM/Lympsham/
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The entry in the 1851 census does start "Sc" - compare with "Scholar" on the same page - but it's always possible that a mistake was made at the time. The only George Bowering baptism in Somerset 1790-1837 appears to be the one at Lympsham in 1826. There is also only one George Bowering of the right age in Somerset in the 1841 census and he's at Loxton, only 3 miles from Lympsham. He's not in Somerset in 1851. So if the marriage certificate shows George's father was John I would think Lympsham's the place you want.
David
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Thank you so much, I'm going to order the marriage certificate now. I did find the one at Loxton. Can someone tell me, why when you know someone is in a place can you sometimes find no census record for them? Is it that not everyone filled it out, or that some aren't online?
Also could it not be the same person?
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Mistakes happened at every stage. Someone may have been somewhere unexpected, missed out completely, or entered with a distorted name. They might have been entered correctly but the record has gone missing, or has been transcribed incorrectly.
As far as I know, all surviving Census records (1841-1911) have been transcribed and are available online. Some of the providers have missed bits here and there but between them they've probably covered all there is. If you can't find someone on the site you subscribe to, you can usually search on other sites without paying. You won't be able to see all the details but can usually see enough to tell if they have a record your site doesn't. Some records have not survived at all or are illegible to some extent. The best known is a large chunk of of the Manchester 1851 records which were damaged by flooding, but odd pages have been lost from all over.
And yes, you can sometimes find someone with the right name in the right place and yet it's not the right person. Even if it's a very rare name, he or she could still be a cousin of the one you want.
If the person you can't find is George's putative father John in Lympsham in 1841, Ancestry has him as John Bown. The original entry was probably intended to be John Bower.
David
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The only George Bowering baptism in Somerset 1790-1837 appears to be the one at Lympsham in 1826.
Forgive me, but might it be wiser to say 'The only George Bowering baptism in Somerset 1790-1837 found online appears to be the one at Lympsham in 1826.'?
I'm no Somerset expert, but I'd be very surprised if there is comprehensive online coverage for the whole county?
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Forgive me, but might it be wiser to say 'The only George Bowering baptism in Somerset 1790-1837 found online appears to be the one at Lympsham in 1826.'?
That's why I wrote "appears to be". :)
(FreeREG has considerable coverage for Somerset, but certainly not complete.)
David
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Update for those interested I got the marriage certificate and Georges father is listed as John who was a agricultural labourer which fits with the one from Lympsham. Thanks everyone who helped
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Thanks for reporting back. Glad you got a positive result. :)
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Excellent result with the M/C!
Baptisms;
St Christopher, Lympsham;
JANE, 23 May 1824 (abode Wick)
GEORG, 25 June 1826
ELIZABETH, 27 August 1828 (abode Lympsham)
CHARLES, 2 August 1840
Parents JOHN/ANN
Fathers Occp Labourer
( Source FreeREG)
www.freereg.org.uk
1851 in Lympsham we have;
John Bowering, 66, Head, Mar, Ag Lab, born Lympsham
Ann Bowering, 53, Wife, Mar, born Bishops Lydeard (1798)**
Elizabeth Bowering, 23, Daug, Unm, born Lympsham
Charles Bowering, 10, So, born Lympsham
Marriage same Church;
John BOWERING to Ann SOMERFIELD, 28 Sept 1821
Bachelor/Spinster
Abode of both Lympsham
Witnesses, James and Mary Colling
Bride made her mark
(FreeREG)
Ann SOMERFIELD, Baptised 22 April 1798, St Mary, Bishops Lydeard
Parents JOHN/MARY
Siblings;
WILLIAM, 26 July 1795 and ELIZABETH Baptised same day
FANNY, 2 April 1804
(FreeREG)
**** I will continue this Somerfield info on a separate entry
Trish :)
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1851 tallies with the 1841;
John Bown, 60, Ag lab (image may be 50 ?)
Ann Bown, 45
Elizth Bown, 12
Charles Bown, 1
As John/Ann married 1821 I would think there may be other Children before Jane 1824 but I cant find any 1821/1822/1823.
I am sure the Marriage is likely correct as I have found that Baptism for a Ann Somerfield that fits.
Burials;
St Christopher, Lympsham
JOHN Bowering, 20 Jan 1861 age 76, abode Purving Row, Lympsham
I am going to stick my neck out here.
It is possible Johns Mother died after he was born and he may have not known exactly when he was born.
This is worth noting in case you cant find another John Bowering born c 1785 Lymspham
JOHN Bowering Baptised St Christopher, 29 March 1791, Mother JANE, a Widdow (as transcribed)
JOHN Bowering buried same Church, 15 March 1791
JANE Bowering buried same Church, 11 March 1792, Widow
John/Jane Baptised a FREDERICK, 9 Aug 1789 who may have died and was buried 12 June 1799, no age given.
A John BOWERING Married Jane STEVENS, 3 March 1788, St Mary, Berrow, Somerset
All above on FreeREG
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deleted wrong info
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Wow you've done a lot of work, thank you. For George 1826's dad John 1796 I found a baptism record that I thought might fit.
St Christopher's in Lympsham
John Bowering 14 Feb 1796
Father Joseph
Mother Elizabeth - surname I believe is Colston
Then I found a baptism for a Joseph Bowering
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1761
Baptism Place: Lympsham, Somerset, England
Father: Joseph Bowring
Mother: Betty
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That is amazing, your post about Inn came in as I was typing ;D
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I think the Baptism you found is also a possibility.
Making dinner, give me time to look over this again :)
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If you are having dinner you must be on the other side of the world to Somerset! Thank you for looking at all, you have helped loads.
You said earlier that the baptism for Ann Somerfield showed her mother as MARY
I'm now on Freecen and can see the same household as you posted but the mother here is Ann, I will keep looking
It looks like only Elizabeth, Fanny, William and Ann have the same parents John/Mary Somerfield. On all of these baptisms the father does not have a Profession recorded unlike the others where he appears as Smith
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Yes, I'm in Sydney;
Sorry my mistake Ann 1798's Mother MARY, I may have mucked this up unless the record is a mistake?
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Wow Sydney,
I think it must be another family. I dont think that John had a family with Ann and then a second with Mary because he would be too young a father to Ann.
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Deleted JOHN/ANN info!
Must have had a Senior Moment.
I agree Johns age is out but Census are not always accurate
JOHN/MARY Baptised;
WILLIAM/ELIZABETH, 26 July 1795
ANN, 22 April 1798***
FANNY, 2 April 1804
Now there is a Possible Burial;
MARY Somerfield, 10 March 1805 St Mary, no age/status given
There is also a John SUMERFIELD/Anne HOW Marriage 14 Nov 1809 St Mary.
Unfortunately it does not state if he is Widowed.
Johns Burial, 25 June 1854 gives his age as 77 (birth c 1777)
So if the same John, possible 2 Wives and was 21 when Ann was Baptised and 18 for William/Elizabeth
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Yes two wives could be possible. I cant find a record of the first marriage or John's birth/baptism or his marriage to Mary but I think we've still done very well! Thanks for your help