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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: cupcake on Thursday 28 May 15 13:36 BST (UK)
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Trying to find Jack James STEEL death details. All I know is he died 1929/30.
He was the de-facto husband to Annie. They had a daughter around 1926. I believe in 1927, they were living in Redfern.
I have all the relevent information after 1930
cupcake
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Parents of Jack James STEEL are?
Neil
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From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Also
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928
John STEELE died 1928 Parramatta, father Daniel H , mother Elizabeth S reg 16509/1928
regards
Ros
adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
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I have all the relevent information after 1930
cupcake
Perhaps if you were to share some of this, cupcake, we may be able to work further with the man's pre-1930 history.
Sue
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From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Just looking at the death above---
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?ServiceId=A&VeteranId=320211
This is a ww2 indexing for Seth Hope STEELE , born 1900 with NOK Charlotte.
Living at Paddington NSW on enlistment.
I wonder whether this death is a child of theirs.
Sue
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Trying to find Jack James STEEL death details. All I know is he died 1929/30.
He was the de-facto husband to Annie. They had a daughter around 1926. I believe in 1927, they were living in Redfern.
I have all the relevent information after 1930
What proof & how do you know his name was Jack James STEEL & that he died 1929-1930?
I gave you Jacqueline's marriage previously which gave the surname of STEEL.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721568.msg5654432#msg5654432
Also on that thread you have her mother's middle name as JAMES :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721568.msg5654300#msg5654300
What information do you have that they were living in Redfern in 1927?
You would need Jacqueline's MC to confirm the name/s of her father instead of assuming what they might or might not be & whether he was deceased or not.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
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Hi there cupcake,
May I please ask you to transcribe for us the info from the NSW BDM marriage for that daughter born around 1926, particularly the info she provided about her parents and herself. You see, I am having some difficulty joining the dots on this branch of your family tree.
NSW BDM marriage certificates (including the cheaper full official transcriptions that well recognised by family history buffs) includes the following info provided by the bride at the time of the interview arranging for the marriage ceremony:
:) Her then full name, (the name she is using at the time, and so all her given names, any previous given names, her surname and any former surnames)
:) Her then occupation
:) Her then place of residence
:) Her then conjugal status (spinster, widow, divorcee (partitioner), divorcee (respondent)
:) Her place of birth, (sometimes as detailed as locality, district, shire, state/county, nation)
:) Her age,
:) Her father's full name, occupation, and if known to be deceased
:) Her mother's full name, maiden name and any other surnames, and if known to be deceased
If the bride was not yet 21 years of age, then she was not yet old enough to give her own consent to marry, and thus needed a responsible adult to provide such consent. If her father were deceased, then her mother would like be the person giving consent. The name of the person giving consent and their relationship to the bride will be recorded on the registration.
I am confident that our OP has verified that the bride, and the bride's parents are no longer living, as per the thread : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721568.msg5654324#msg5654324 ".....The information I have Jacqueline and Reg are also deceased....." (cupcake)
Cheers, JM
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JM, cupcake wouldn't have the marriage certificate for Jacqueline as I only found the marriage for her on Tuesday. See my reply linked above ;D
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;D As I understand it, one of the official transcribers is currently offering at an additional cost (of course), an extremely quick turn around, perhaps a next day delivery. ;D
JM
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It appears that cupcake has Titterington relatives residing in AUS:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=696636.msg5400570#msg5400570
My father was 41 years old when he married.
His father was William Ernest Titterington.
My father was born 17 December 1898 in Kirby Lonsdale, Westmorland.
He had two sisters and a brother, who all went to Australia. My father stayed in the UK.
This information would be helpful you further you research... ::)
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Previous threads:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=584614.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=583438.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=583440.0
*cupcake it's very helpful if you link your previous threads when requesting information to save us repeating questions & having to dig up the old threads ourselves :)
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Merlin,
First of all I apologize for confusing you. I understood one had to write seperate posts, that is why I started one for Jack James to prevent this.
The only information I have on Jack James are snippets. He was my Aunty's de-facto husband and I didn't know his surname was STEEL until you gave it on the post.
As for for Redfern - this and all information I have and was given by an Aunt who is now deceased.
cupcake
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Neil,
I have no idea who his parents were.
cupcake
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Ros,
Thank you for that, gives me something to work on.
cupcake
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Yes, new threads for further research are correct & you didn't confuse me, don't know why you thought that ;D
But, as I said it's very helpful to link your previous research if we know what has already been given & verified. It helps us especially as we live here & have access to information that is not online, on commercial websites or in the public domain to further your research ;)
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Sue,
Was hopeing to find Jack Jame STEEL death details to put into the family tree. I have no information other than he was my Aunts de- facto husband. They had a daughter ?1926 and Jack died 1929/30.
I believe they were staying in a boarding house in Redfern Road, Redfern, opposite Redfern Park.
cupcake
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adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
This John Joseph STEEL is buried at Waverley with his wife Elizabeth Agnes STEEL & their grandson Herbert John STEEL:
MI at Waverley has the following:
STEEL Elizabeth Agnes 27 years died 1 Oct 1893
Wife of John Steel
STEEL J J 69 years died 31 Jul 1928
Husband of above
STEEL Herbert John 16 years died 30 Apr 1932
Grandson of above
Burial location:
Denomination: Catholic
Section: 8 Select
Row: 12
Grave/s: 1292-1293
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cupcake,
Please can you say if you have a reason for still being so convinced that Jack's second given name was James
You have given his name as Jack James (etc) repeatedly, but it was Anne's second given name you have said, and became also her daughter's second given name
This has been pointed out to you by Merlin above.
Sue
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Yes, cupcake, I was about to ask that very same question that Sue and Merlin are posing. :)
I have been concentrating online at NSW BDM looking for likely deaths for Jack J Steel and variations 1928 – 1931. So I have tried the wildcards for the surname "S ? ? ? ?" and "S ? ? ? ? ?" (? as substitute for each letter in the surname)
There’s very few choices.
Jack J SLABB #21241
Jack T J SMITH #8331
Jack H STONE #6200 (registered Redfern)
Jack SANCHO #4079 (also registered under the surname ABORIGINAL)
Jack SLOANE #16956
Jack W SPENCE #7587
Jack H SUITOR #5536
It is way outside of the square thinking, and likely way off track.
Cheers, JM
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In 1930, Annie was using her birth surname TITTERINGTON for electoral registration.
TITTERINGTON, Annie.
39 Matilda St. Bondi. HD
1933
TITTERINGTON, Annie
52 Regent St. Paddington. HD
Sue
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Sue,
Jack James is the name given in my information by an aunt(Annie's sister) who is now deceased. So, I am sticking with Jack James
Their daughter was named Jacqueline James . I can't add anymore to it.
Would have thought Annie would still be known as Titterington as she was never married to Jack.
cupcake
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sue,
Many thanks for the addresses, for Annie Titterington in 1930 and 1932. She married in Paddington in 1933.
Thank you for all your help.
cupcake
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May I please suggest that you consider popping that marriage cert on a Wish List, as it is likely to have some info about her Dad.
Cheers, JM
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Also, have you considered Jack could be surnamed JAMES rather than Steel ? There are death registrations for John JAMES at NSW BDM.
Cheers, JM
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Not sure if you have these details
Probate Packet: Annie Jackson - Date of Death 05/04/1964, Granted on 16/10/1964
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JM,
I feel as if I am causing a problem with this post :-\.
This was posted by Merlin on my other post. Have to say I was surprised to see the name STEEL.
Marriage:
Reginald Thomas BYRNES m. Jacqueline James STEEL 1943 COFFS HARBOUR #21977
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
I agree the certificate would give some info on the father. As I live in Scotland I'll need to figure out how to go about it.
cupcake
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JM,
I feel as if I am causing a problem with this post :-\.
This was posted by Merlin on my other post. Have to say I was surprised to see the STEEL.
Marriage:
Reginald Thomas BYRNES m. Jacqueline James STEEL 1943 COFFS HARBOUR #21977
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
I agree the certificate would give some info on the father. As I live in Scotland I'll need to figure out how to go about it.
cupcake
Why would you think there is a problem of any kind?
We are simply working together to explore all possibilities and assist.
It is normal that there is lively discussion and lots of advice and, of course, questions have to be asked in the process.
Sue
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JM,
I would agree with you on that one, that JAMES is the correct surname. How do I go about checking on the death registrations for John JAMES at NSW BDM.
cupcake
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You just need to order it and pay for it online. There's official transcription agents for NSW BDM and here is the RChat thread that gives you their contact details.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Yep, I agree, there's often lively discussion on this board, ;D and the regulars all seem to have our own resources and experiences with these, and it is rare for there to be duplications of info, and even rarer for problems to arise between us RChatters.
Cheers, JM
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JM,
I would agree with you on that one, that JAMES is the correct surname. How do I go about checking on the death registrations for John JAMES at NSW BDM.
cupcake
You click the option "start searching" and then you select the option "deaths" and then you enter the surname as JAMES and the given name as JOHN and it is up to you which years you want to search across.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
Cheers, JM
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cupoflife,
There is another Rootschatter who has kindly offered to get the probates for me.
Many thanks .
cupcake
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JM,
Many thanks for that.
Cupcake
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JM,
This may seem a stupid question but, I'll ask it anyway - are the names Jack and John used as the same, if that makes sense :-\.
cupcake
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Yes, they can be. And yes, they are also 'stand alone' names. I have examples of both right throughout both the 19th and 20th century in NSW families.
I think similar variations occur in much of the English speaking world, even today.
Cheers, JM
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JM,
Thank you for explaining that to me. I learn something new every day.
cupcake
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I agree the certificate would give some info on the father. As I live in Scotland I'll need to figure out how to go about it.
You appear to have managed that okay previously when your ordered a transcription of William KENNEDY's death certificate in 2011. Why not just use the same agent if you were happy with their service ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=552302.msg4057812#msg4057812
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=552302.msg4070527#msg4070527
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Merlin,
Thanks for reminding me, I had forgotten about that.
cupcake
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JM,
This may seem a stupid question but, I'll ask it anyway - are the names Jack and John used as the same, if that makes sense :-\.
cupcake
Perhaps helpful to mention at this point, too, Jacqueline is the feminine (French) version of JACK.
Sue
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Sue,
Thank you for that :)
cupcake
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Thought I would look up Jacqulines birth details for around 1926 as this would possibily give me her father. Unfortunately, the NSW births don't seem to start till 1915. So, will try one of the official transcription agents for NSW BDM and see if they can help.
cupcake
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Birth registrations are restricted to public access for 100 years in NSW. I think you meant to write that the births only extend to 1915 not seem to start till 1915.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/births/birth-certificate.aspx
Cando
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Cando,
Thank you for that. We have similar here in the UK with the 100 year rule. Yes, my mistake regarding births extended to 1915.
Just means I 'll not be able to get the birth entry I wanted.
cupcake
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Have been reading Annie Jackson's probate and on her death certificate it clearly mentions her de-facto husband was Jack James STEEL
cupcake
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:) :) :) May please I ask if you have received the official transcription for the 1943 mc? and the info about the parents of the bride.
May I please suggest that you consider popping that marriage cert on a Wish List, as it is likely to have some info about her Dad.
Cheers, JM
Marriage:
Reginald Thomas BYRNES m. Jacqueline James STEEL 1943 COFFS HARBOUR #21977
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
I agree the certificate would give some info on the father. ........
:) :) :) May I please ask for the informant's name and relationship as per the dc and for your transcript of that dc.
Have been reading Annie Jackson's probate and on her death certificate it clearly mentions her de-facto husband was Jack James STEEL
cupcake
Cheers, JM
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I wonder about your wording .... I have had a good look at various NSW BDM records over some 50 years of involvement in my hobby, family history. I have not ever noticed any dc with the words 'de facto' for the relationship. I would expect that Annie's dc will show the informant as her daughter, and if so then I expect the daughter will be of the view that Annie was twice married.
In the NSW BDM administrative system, there are no BDM officers employed to validate the information given by the informant to the funeral director. The informant signs a section of the funeral director's papers. It is the equivalent of a Statutory Declaration, and there are heavy penalties for prejuring yourself. So the informant provides information that they believe to be true. That's why it is often said that the information on a death certificate is not as reliable as the information on a marriage certificate.
Cheers, JM
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I'll tryto re-word .
The paper I am referring has the heading - Deaths registered in the District of Sydney, in the state of New South Wales by Jack Hayword Watson, Registrar-General.
Here in the UK, we would call it a death cert.
It does say First Marriage - Sydney NSW - Jack James STEEL. ( but the information I have is Jack was her de-facto husband and, never married)
Her daughter Jacqueline was the informant and, perhaps thought her mother was married to Jack.
That's as clear as I can make it.
cupcake
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Yes you are looking at a death certificate, for a death registered in NSW.
Earlier on this thread you clearly wrote :
Have been reading Annie Jackson's probate and on her death certificate it clearly mentions her de-facto husband was Jack James STEEL
cupcake
I'll tryto re-word .
The paper I am referring has the heading - Deaths registered in the District of Sydney, in the state of New South Wales by Jack Hayword Watson, Registrar-General.
Here in the UK, we would call it a death cert.
It does say First Marriage - Sydney NSW - Jack James STEEL. ( but the information I have is Jack was her de-facto husband and, never married)
Her daughter Jacqueline was the informant and, perhaps thought her mother was married to Jack.
That's as clear as I can make it.
cupcake
So, you are confirming that the NSW death certificate for Annie Jackson does not use the expression 'de facto husband'.
Cheers, JM
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Yes, I confirm that the NSW death certificate for Annie Jackson does not use the expression 'de facto husband'.
cupcake
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Looks as if I am not going to find Jack James STEEL 's death details, when I don't know who his parents were and, wasn't to knowledge, married :(
cupcake
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Looks as if I am not going to find Jack James STEEL 's death details, when I don't know who his parents were and, wasn't to knowledge, married :(
Still not convinced about this Jack James STEEL...
Perhaps you should be looking for someone else :-\
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Your Annie TITTERINGTON spun a web of lies ::)
NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927:
http://postimg.org/image/hluy34ooj/
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TITTERINGTON Miss A 28 years Linen keeper, embarked on the ORAMA from London on 27 Mar 1925. Contracted to land in Sydney. Last address in the UK 48 Lord Street Southport Country of last permanent residence England. Country of intended permanent residence Australia.
I cannot find a marriage to a John RICHMOND between 1925 and 1927. Perhaps they weren’t married and legally she was a spinster at the 1933 marriage.
There is an online tree on Ancestry with a photo of Annie and her dau. Is it your tree cupcake?
Cando
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Off track....it appears her mother Janet 47 years and siblings Margaret and Joseph both 15 years emigrated to Australia departing London on 4 Jun 1927 on the ESPERANCE BAY.
Death of her brother
8297/1954
TITTERINGTON Joseph Moffitt
Father William Mother Janet
District Balmain
Cando
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Is this them...only listing for this couple with this spelling.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
STEELL Annie 598 Parramatta Road, Croydon HD
STEELL Jack 598 Parramatta Road, Croydon Labourer
Cando
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And I am still wondering about the information on the official transcription of the 1943 mc ..... :)
But what great finds by both Merlin and Cando. Well Found.
Cheers, JM
:) :) :) May please I ask if you have received the official transcription for the 1943 mc? and the info about the parents of the bride.
May I please suggest that you consider popping that marriage cert on a Wish List, as it is likely to have some info about her Dad.
Cheers, JM
Marriage:
Reginald Thomas BYRNES m. Jacqueline James STEEL 1943 COFFS HARBOUR #21977
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
I agree the certificate would give some info on the father. ........
......
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/83399594 The Daily News 26 April 1926
officer in charge of immigration .... new settlers ..... ss Thermistocles to Albany ...... Titterington, Mrs Annie and child; Titterington Wm, ......
Cheers, JM
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Your Annie TITTERINGTON spun a web of lies ::)
NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927:
http://postimg.org/image/hluy34ooj/
Not sure this is my Annie as I believe she had red hair.
cupcake
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Off track....it appears her mother Janet 47 years and siblings Margaret and Joseph both 15 years emigrated to Australia departing London on 4 Jun 1927 on the ESPERANCE BAY.
Death of her brother
8297/1954
TITTERINGTON Joseph Moffitt
Father William Mother Janet
District Balmain
Cando
Her mother Janet was in her 59th year when she went to Australia and I believe stayed with her daughter, Annie
The rest is correct except for the spelling of (Moffat)
cupcake
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I have 'strawberry blonde' hair, and I assure you that in some lights it still has a red tinge to it, but when I was younger, from about Easter through to about Father's Day, (so throughout my school life) it was far more red than blonde . On all my documentation, from my earliest days my hair colour is recorded as 'fair'.
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/83399594 The Daily News 26 April 1926
officer in charge of immigration .... new settlers ..... ss Thermistocles to Albany ...... Titterington, Mrs Annie and child; Titterington Wm, ......
Cheers, JM
Can't make a connection to the above. My family sailed from Tilbury Docks at 1.30pm on the T.S.S. Esperance Bay, bound for Sydney. They voyage was held up briefly in Port Suez while repairs were made to a propeller.
cupcake
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NSW ER 1935 REDFERN
Janet TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, home huties
Margot TITTERINGTON, 51 Castlereagh St, machinist
Joseph TITTERINGTON 221 Cleveland St, sawyer
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/83399594 The Daily News 26 April 1926
officer in charge of immigration .... new settlers ..... ss Thermistocles to Albany ...... Titterington, Mrs Annie and child; Titterington Wm, ......
Cheers, JM
Can't make a connection to the above. My family sailed from Tilbury Docks at 1.30pm on the T.S.S. Esperance Bay, bound for Sydney. They voyage was held up briefly in Port Suez while repairs were made to a propeller.
cupcake
What was the date for that voyage that departed at 1:30 pm?
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Sands Directories 1930 Sydney
Mrs J TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, Redfern.
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives
Cheers, JM
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Is this them...only listing for this couple with this spelling.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
STEELL Annie 598 Parramatta Road, Croydon HD
STEELL Jack 598 Parramatta Road, Croydon Labourer
Cando
This could very well be them but as I said from the information I have - they weren't married and Jack James STEEL died 1929/30 - sorry I can't be of more help.
cupcake
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NSW ER 1935 REDFERN
Janet TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, home huties
Margot TITTERINGTON, 51 Castlereagh St, machinist
Joseph TITTERINGTON 221 Cleveland St, sawyer
Cheers, JM
This appears to be my Grandmother Janet TITTERINGTON with her son and daughter (twins) who sailed on the "Esperance Bay"
cupcake
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NSW ER 1935 REDFERN
Janet TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, home huties
Margot TITTERINGTON, 51 Castlereagh St, machinist
Joseph TITTERINGTON 221 Cleveland St, sawyer
Cheers, JM
This appears to be my Grandmother Janet TITTERINGTON with her son and daughter (twins) who sailed on the "Esperance Bay"
cupcake
Of course it is.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
TITTERINGTON Janet 51 Castlereagh Street Redfern HD
Cando
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Your Annie TITTERINGTON spun a web of lies ::)
NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927:
http://postimg.org/image/hluy34ooj/
Not sure this is my Annie as I believe she had red hair.
cupcake
Of course it is...the combination of her given name and the surnames...who else would it be. Not many TITTERINGTON's on the NSW indexes.
A possibility - Jack may have been a nickname :-\ Perhaps this has been looked at previously.
Death
287/1930
STEELE John D 3O Years Died Sydney
District Sydney
You need to purchase the 1943 marriage certificate.
Cando
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NSW ER 1935 REDFERN
Janet TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, home huties
Margot TITTERINGTON, 51 Castlereagh St, machinist
Joseph TITTERINGTON 221 Cleveland St, sawyer
Cheers, JM
This appears to be my Grandmother Janet TITTERINGTON with her son and daughter (twins) who sailed on the "Esperance Bay"
cupcake
Of course it is.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
TITTERINGTON Janet 51 Castlereagh Street Redfern HD
Cando
I agree, of course it is, and so too does Sands Directories for 1930 :)
Sands Directories 1930 Sydney
Mrs J TITTERINGTON 51 Castlereagh St, Redfern.
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives
Cheers, JM
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I have contacted an official transcription agent for NSW BDM, for Jacquelines marriage in 1943.
cupcake
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51 Castlereagh St, Redfern in Dec 1929, was a furnished flat with a comfortable Piano. Here's the advert
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16607397 SMH 5 Dec 1929
Cheers, JM
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I'm sure we will all be interested in the transcription but of course it may only contain what her mother told her.
A possibility - Jack may have been a nickname :-\ Perhaps this has been looked at previously.
Death
287/1930
STEELE John D 3O Years Died Sydney
District Sydney
What do you think of this death?
Cando
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Posted previously but if 'Jack" died in 1930 Annie may have moved an re-enrolled using her maiden name.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
TITTERINGTON Annie 39 Matilda Street Bondi HD
Cando
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:-\ :-\ :-\
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16629297
Sydney Morning Herald 38 Feb 1930
VERONAL ADDICT.
MAN FOUND DEAD.
John Darcy Steel, aged 35, whose address is unknown was found in an unconscious condition in the Domain yesterday morning and was taken to Sydney Hospital. The Dirlinghnrst police reported that the man had died from veronal poisoning, and that he had been addicted to the drug. Steel was at one time a resident of Rabaul, New Guinea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbital
Cando
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I'm sure we will all be interested in the transcription but of course it may only contain what her mother told her.
A possibility - Jack may have been a nickname :-\ Perhaps this has been looked at previously.
Death
287/1930
STEELE John D 3O Years Died Sydney
District Sydney
What do you think of this death?
Cando
Is a possibility - the year - place and, his age yes, just the name :-\
cupcake
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cupcake.....genealogy is not an exact science. One must use a bit of commonsense and allow for variations in names etc. Oral history is usually full of inaccuraces.
Cando
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:-\ :-\ :-\
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16629297
Sydney Morning Herald 38 Feb 1930
VERONAL ADDICT.
MAN FOUND DEAD.
John Darcy Steel, aged 35, whose address is unknown was found in an unconscious condition in the Domain yesterday morning and was taken to Sydney Hospital. The Dirlinghnrst police reported that the man had died from veronal poisoning, and that he had been addicted to the drug. Steel was at one time a resident of Rabaul, New Guinea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbital
Cando
:-\ :-\
cupcake
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cupcake.....genealogy is not an exact science. One must use a bit of commonsense and allow for variations in names etc. Oral history is usually full of inaccuraces.
Cando
I agree
cupcake
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Sydney Morning Herald 6 Mar 1930
STEELE -The Funeral of the late JOHN D'ARCY STEELE is appointed to leave the Private Mortuary Chapel of Mrs P. Kirby and Son Ltd., 265 Elizabeth-street, Sydney, THIS MONDAY, at 9.30 a.m. for the Church of England Cemetery, Botany (motor funeral)
Mrs P KIRBY and SON LTD
Motor Funeral Directors
Phone M2221-2. 265 Elizabeth-street, Sydney
Cando
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John D'arcy STEELE was born in England, served in the Navy and lived in Africa prior to his return to England in 1922. Emigrated to Aus in 1923.
Cando
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Australian Electoral Roll
1930
TITTERINGTON Annie 39 Matilda Street Bondi HD
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
JACKSON Charles Robert 39 Matilda Street Bondi Motor Mechanic
Cando
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Sydney Morning Herald 6 Mar 1930
STEELE -The Funeral of the late JOHN D'ARCY STEELE is appointed to leave the Private Mortuary Chapel of Mrs P. Kirby and Son Ltd., 265 Elizabeth-street, Sydney, THIS MONDAY, at 9.30 a.m. for the Church of England Cemetery, Botany (motor funeral)
Mrs P KIRBY and SON LTD
Motor Funeral Directors
Phone M2221-2. 265 Elizabeth-street, Sydney
Cando
Thank you for that
cupcake
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John D'arcy STEELE was born in England, served in the Navy and lived in Africa prior to his return to England in 1922. Emigrated to Aus in 1923.
Cando
That's interesting and will keep that in mind.
Cupcake
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Australian Electoral Roll
1930
TITTERINGTON Annie 39 Matilda Street Bondi HD
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
JACKSON Charles Robert 39 Matilda Street Bondi Motor Mechanic
Cando
This is the Charles JACKSON who married Annie Titterington in 1933 at Paddington.
cupcake
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Yes I know ::)
I posted the listing as it shows that Annie was living with Charles prior to the close of the electoral rolls for the NSW election which was held on 25 Oct 1930.
Cando
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So, Charles Robert JACKSON and his mother, Meta Sophia JACKSON were both enrolled in 1930 in respect of 8 Wattle St, Haberfield AND 39 Matilda St Bondi.
Also on the 1930 electoral roll at Haberfield was:
Jack Cathels Iberia STEEL, Addiscombe, Tressider Avenue, Haberfield, a draftsman
Myee Lottie STEEL, Addiscombe, Tressider Avenue, Haberfield, home duties
Sands 1930 gives J C STEEL at 26 Tressider Ave, Haberfield
NSW BDM gives marriage 1916 for Jack C STEEL and Myee L GARLAND. #13016
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks for that interesting information.
Well done to everyone who has helped me with my search, all very much appreciated.
cupcake
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Do pop back with the transcription of Jacqueline's 1943 marriage cert.
Cheers, JM
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Will do.
cupcake
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I will pop this link here as there's many posts on that thread about Charles Robert JACKSON
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723154.0
Cheers, JM
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Thought you may like this for your records - address in Charles WW1 service file.
http://www.belfastfamilyhistory.com/showItem.php?id=16861&year=1911&type=person
and the age at death is not a match.
3632/1956
JACKSON Meta Sophia
Father Robert Alexander 88 years
District Paddington
Cando
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Thank you for the address and info in Ireland :).
You are right, the age at death doesn't match, neither do the dates in Ireland, match.
So, she was widowed in 1911. Her age here is 35 and would mean she was born 1876 and would mean she had her son Charles when she was 14 ::) as Charles was born in 1890.
cupcake
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Thank you for the address and info in Ireland :).
You are right, the age at death doesn't match, neither do the dates in Ireland, match.
So, she was widowed in 1911. Her age here is 35 and would mean she was born 1876 and would mean she had her son Charles when she was 14 ::) as Charles was born in 1890.
cupcake
Charles states he was 23 years and 1 month of age (23 1/12) when he enlisted in Oct 1914. So, he was born in September 1891, so Meta was NOT 14 years of age when Charles was born.....
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7360254
Add seems Irish Census was 2 April 1911
Cheers, JM
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http://www.belfastfamilyhistory.com/showItem.php?id=28847&year=1911&type=person
This Charles was in Belfast in 1911 at the census, and he was 19, and born in NSW. He was with other family members. :)
Cheers, JM
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If Meta's age 35 was correct in 1911,which I doubt, she had Charles when she was 15 , which I don't believe. Meta was born in 1870 and was 20 when she had Charles.
Charles was 43 when he married in Feb 1933 and still maintain he was born in 1890.
cupcake
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Do hope this makes sense.
They have Charles born in NSW. 1890? He and his mother are in Ireland in 1911. Charles marries first wife in England 1918
His mother Meta and Charles's first wife, emigrate to Australia in 1918. She must have been in Australia before 1918 to have Charles :-\.
I am still looking for Meta Sophia's marriage details to a Willam Henry JACKSON - Charle's father
cupcake
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Do hope this makes sense.
They have Charles born in NSW. 1890? He and his mother are in Ireland in 1911. Charles marries first wife in England 1918
His mother Meta and Charles's first wife, emigrate to Australia in 1918. She must have been in Australia before 1918 to have Charles :-\.
I am still looking for Meta Sophia's marriage details to a Willam Henry JACKSON - Charle's father
cupcake
Cupcake, have you done a timeline, using the information on the various records found for you?
I realise you hold that Charles was born in 1890, despite he providing his age as 23 years 1 month when he enlisted 7th Oct 1914, but that is still not going to find a birth in NSW for Charles Robert JACKSON in either 1890 or 1891.
Way back I provided the index info for the first marriage. May I ask again if you have any thoughts as to what the initial "S" may stand for?
Perhaps it is a SURNAME that may help us to help you, afterall, by inference you may well be suggesting that Meta had Charles prior to her marriage to William JACKSON, and IF so, then it is unlikely to find Charles NSW birth under that surname.
Cheers, JM
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I am unsure of where to post the following...
But Cupcake, have you considered the following birth as perhaps being for your lass?
It is indexed online at Queensland BDM.
It is for a Mary Ann Meta Sophia, daughter of a Robert Thomas GOWDY and a Mary Ann Meta Sophia BOYD...... It is a birth in 1872, and is referenced C2859. (The "C" shows it is not a birth registered in the Capital city of Qld, ie it is not registered in Brisbane).
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/
Cheers, JM
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I you are referring to this "S" Charles R S JACKSON married March quarter 1918 to Kathleen A JACKSON, I am afriad I don't know, could be a tying error.
I am just going to accept Charles was born in NSW.
Thank you all for your help.
cupcake
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If Meta's age 35 was correct in 1911,which I doubt, she had Charles when she was 15 , which I don't believe. Meta was born in 1870 and was 20 when she had Charles.
How do you know that Meta was born 1870? You don't have her birth certificate so how on earth can you claim the above. Information on death certificates and census is not primary evidence of date of birth.
Meta filled out the Irish 1911 census form and it is clearly 35 years of age on the original.
Search for yourself....you need to search for Sophia JACKSON as the Meta has not been transcribed from the original.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
Cando
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I you are referring to this "S" Charles R S JACKSON married March quarter 1918 to Kathleen A JACKSON, I am afriad I don't know, could be a tying error.
I am just going to accept Charles was born in NSW.
Thank you all for your help.
cupcake
The details would likely be on that marriage certificate. It would be significant as Charles should have given details about his own father at that time too. To me, if this were my family, I would be getting that document, particularly to learn more about Charles, his bride, their parents, and also the names of the witnesses.... I wonder if Meta was one of the witnesses....
Cheers, JM
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3632/1956
JACKSON Meta Sophia
Father Robert Alexander 88 years
District Paddington
1901 Census
Living at 8.1 in Pallace Row Armagh Town, Armagh
BOYD Robert Alexander Head Church of Ireland 65 years Retired Farmer Widower Born Armagh City.
Cando
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Many thanks for the 1901 census.
cupcake
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The details would likely be on that marriage certificate. It would be significant as Charles should have given details about his own father at that time too. To me, if this were my family, I would be getting that document, particularly to learn more about Charles, his bride, their parents, and also the names of the witnesses.... I wonder if Meta was one of the witnesses....
Cheers, JM
I will look for his marriage details to Kathleen in England but, Charles's birth entry would me his parents. Have looked on the NSW BMD's free on-line search for 1890/1981 but nothing.
cupcake
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The details would likely be on that marriage certificate. It would be significant as Charles should have given details about his own father at that time too. To me, if this were my family, I would be getting that document, particularly to learn more about Charles, his bride, their parents, and also the names of the witnesses.... I wonder if Meta was one of the witnesses....
Cheers, JM
I will look for his marriage details to Kathleen in England but, Charles's birth entry would me his parents. Have looked on the NSW BMD's free on-line search for 1890/1981 but nothing.
cupcake
I am quite sure that we have all checked each and every available (and there's many) versions of the NSW BDM indexes .... not just the online version of the NSW BDM, so it is good to know that you have checked the online index.
I am quite sure that the following indexes have also been checked (and likely many others too, including many that are not available online)
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=74&new=1
http://www.sydneybenevolentasylum.com/index.php?page=search-index
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-education-and-child-welfare-records/index-to-child-care-and-protection/index-to-the-randwick-asylum-for-destitute
(noting that was the first project completed by the State Records Volunteers. )
Cheers, JM
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I have placed some information on the other thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723154.msg5685209#msg5685209
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Thank you for the addresses.
cupcake
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Can't find the thread where it said to pop back with Jacqueline and Reg BYRNES marriage in 1943 Coffs Harbour.
She was 17yrs and Reg was 31yrs when they married. Something I haven't come across before:
Consent - The consent of Annie Jackson was given in writing to the marriage of the Bride.
Well, it gives her father as John James STEEL (deceased) not Jack. His occupation was Building Contractor.
cupcake
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She was 17yrs and Reg was 31yrs when they married. Something I haven't come across before:
Consent - The consent of Annie Jackson was given in writing to the marriage of the Bride.
Well, as she was under age... consent had to be in writing by either of her parents, guardian or a legal entity.
-
Yes, as the bride was not yet 21 years of age, she was not yet old enough to give her own consent to her marriage. Same would apply if the groom was not yet 21 years of age. In the 1970s that section of the marriage Act was altered to 18 years of age.
"Written Consent" became mandatory from 1925, under the NSW Marriage Act of 1899 as amended.
Cheers, JM
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Hi there cupcake,
May I please ask you to transcribe for us the info from the NSW BDM marriage for that daughter born around 1926, particularly the info she provided about her parents and herself. You see, I am having some difficulty joining the dots on this branch of your family tree.
NSW BDM marriage certificates (including the cheaper full official transcriptions that well recognised by family history buffs) includes the following info provided by the bride at the time of the interview arranging for the marriage ceremony:
:) Her then full name, (the name she is using at the time, and so all her given names, any previous given names, her surname and any former surnames)
:) Her then occupation
:) Her then place of residence
:) Her then conjugal status (spinster, widow, divorcee (partitioner), divorcee (respondent)
:) Her place of birth, (sometimes as detailed as locality, district, shire, state/county, nation)
:) Her age,
:) Her father's full name, occupation, and if known to be deceased
:) Her mother's full name, maiden name and any other surnames, and if known to be deceased
If the bride was not yet 21 years of age, then she was not yet old enough to give her own consent to marry, and thus needed a responsible adult to provide such consent. If her father were deceased, then her mother would like be the person giving consent. The name of the person giving consent and their relationship to the bride will be recorded on the registration.
I am confident that our OP has verified that the bride, and the bride's parents are no longer living, as per the thread : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721568.msg5654324#msg5654324 ".....The information I have Jacqueline and Reg are also deceased....." (cupcake)
Cheers, JM
Will do.
cupcake
Can't find the thread where it said to pop back with Jacqueline and Reg BYRNES marriage in 1943 Coffs Harbour.
She was 17yrs and Reg was 31yrs when they married. Something I haven't come across before:
Consent - The consent of Annie Jackson was given in writing to the marriage of the Bride.
Well, it gives her father as John James STEEL (deceased) not Jack. His occupation was Building Contractor.
cupcake
Cheers, JM
-
Groom Reginald Thomas BYRNES
Occ Chemist
Usual Residence Coffs Harbour
Status Bachelor
Place of Birth Coffs Harbour, NSW
Age 31
Father Hubert Samuel BYRNES
Mother Amelia Parish
Father's Occ. Cafe proprietor
BRIDE Jacqueline James Steel
Occupation Domestic duties
Usual Residence Bellinger
Status Spinster
Place of Birth Coogee, NSW
Age 17 years
Father John James Steel (deceased)
Father's Occupation Building Contractor
Mother Annie Titterington
Date of Marriage 10 November 1943
Place of Marriage St Augustine's Catholic Church, Coffs Harbour, Dorrigo Shire
Religion Roman Catholic Church
Consent The consent of Annie Jackson was givenen writing to the marriage of the bride
Witnesses Cecil H Brynes and Silvie Byrnes
Celebrant John H Gleeson
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BRIDE Jacqueline James Steel
Occupation Domestic duties
Usual Residence Bellinger
Status Spinster
Place of Birth Coogee, NSW
Age 17 years
Father John James Steel (deceased)
Father's Occupation Building Contractor
Mother Annie Titterington
AND the rest of the certificate says... ???
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Groom Reginald Thomas BYRNES
Occ Chemist
Usual Residence Coffs Harbour
Status Bachelor
Age 31
Father Hubert Samuel BYRNES
Mother Amelia Parish
Father's Occ. Cafe proprietor
BRIDE Jacqueline James Steel
Occupation Domestic duties
Usual Residence Bellinger
Status Spinster
Place of Birth Coogee, NSW
Age 17 years
Father John James Steel (deceased)
Father's Occupation Building Contractor
Mother Annie Titterington
Date of Marriage 10 November 1943
Place of Marriage St Augustine's Catholic Church, Coffs Harbour, Dorrigo Shire
Religion Roman Catholic Church
Consent The consent of Annie Jackson was givenen writing to the marriage of the bride
Witnesses Cecil H Brynes and Silvie Byrnes
Celebrant John H Gleeson
Thanks for adding the rest of the information. Much appreciated. I would have expected that Annie's surname would have been recorded as Jackson, formerly Steel, nee Titterington, and I would have expected to read the place of birth for the groom. ???
Cheers, JM
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Thought Annie's surname would have been recorded as Jackson, nee Titterington.
As far as I know, she was never known as STEEL.
Sorry, my mistake :-[, missed out the grooms place of birth - Coffs Harbour.
cupcake
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And now over here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724697.0
Plus here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724762.0
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Thought Annie's surname would have been recorded as Jackson, nee Titterington.
As far as I know, she was never known as STEEL.
Sorry, my mistake :-[, missed out the grooms place of birth - Coffs Harbour.
cupcake
Cupcake, if Annie was not ever known as STEEL, then how and when did Jacqueline acquire the surname of STEEL and why was Jacqueline married with that as her maiden name...... surely Jacqueline would have become known as Jackson upon her mum's marriage to Charles, as was the usual way for NSW families in that era.... Yet, Jacqueline married as STEEL .....
I wonder if you could add further links to this current thread, (additional to Merlin's list) as there seems to be so many current ones now, particularly with information about both Meta Sophia Boyd and her son, Charles Robert BOYD who became known as Charles Robert JACKSON.... Afterall, Meta was Annie's mother in law after Annie's marriage to Charles.
Cheers, JM
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Thought Annie's surname would have been recorded as Jackson, nee Titterington.
As far as I know, she was never known as STEEL.
Sorry, my mistake :-[, missed out the grooms place of birth - Coffs Harbour.
cupcake
Cupcake, if Annie was not ever known as STEEL, then how and when did Jacqueline acquire the surname of STEEL and why was Jacqueline married with that as her maiden name...... surely Jacqueline would have become known as Jackson upon her mum's marriage to Charles, as was the usual way for NSW families in that era.... Yet, Jacqueline married as STEEL .....
I wonder if you could add further links to this current thread, (additional to Merlin's list) as there seems to be so many current ones now, particularly with information about both Meta Sophia Boyd and her son, Charles Robert BOYD who became known as Charles Robert JACKSON.... Afterall, Meta was Annie's mother in law after Annie's marriage to Charles.
Cheers, JM
I am afraid I don't have the answer to this.
As far as I am aware, Annie never married Jack James and obviously, Jacqueline's birth cert must be down as STEEL. Tried to get her birth entry but couldn't- something to do with 100 yrs. She was born 1927 as she was 61 years old when she died in 1988. Can't get her death entry either - something about 30 year - 2018 possibly can.
cupcake
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obviously, Jacqueline's birth cert must be down as STEEL.
Hi Cupcake,
I am absolutely certain that it is NOT obvious that Jacqueline's birth certificate must be down as STEEL, particularly if her birth was registered in New South Wales. You see, I am born in NSW, so too all my siblings, and all my first cousins, both my parents, all four of my grandparents (and their siblings), all eight of my great grandparents (and their siblings), and I assure you that simply because we were born prior to the 1960s, none of our birth registrations include a surname. Simply put, it was not a requirement.
The baby became known by the mother's surname. That's how the system worked until about 1969. So if mum was using same surname as baby's dad, then baby becomes known by dad's surname only because that was the THEN surname mum was THEN using... It was not compulsory to produce proof of identity such as birth certificates, when seeking to marry. A Baptismal certificate was often sufficient proof, particularly if marrying within your own denomination.
So the baby took on mum's surname, and if mum changed her surname at some stage after birth of baby (by usage, or adopting the surname of her husband on marriage,) then baby would become known by mum's new surname.
So just as Charles Robert JACKSON's birth seems to be indexed under BOYD, so too it may well be that Jacqueline's may be indexed under STEEL, but Cupcake, it is also quite possible that Jacqueline's birth (if registered in NSW) MAY BE indexed under what ever surname HER MUM was using at the time of Jacqueline's birth. So it could well be Titterington, as that's the name Jacqueline's mum was using as per the Electoral Roll.
So I am still wondering about how Jacqueline came to be, at 17 years of age, using the surname STEEL, if as you say, you have nothing to show her mum had ever used that surname herself.
Cheers, JM
-
obviously, Jacqueline's birth cert must be down as STEEL.
Hi Cupcake,
I am absolutely certain that it is NOT obvious that Jacqueline's birth certificate must be down as STEEL, particularly if her birth was registered in New South Wales. You see, I am born in NSW, so too all my siblings, and all my first cousins, both my parents, all four of my grandparents (and their siblings), all eight of my great grandparents (and their siblings), and I assure you that simply because we were born prior to the 1960s, none of our birth registrations include a surname. Simply put, it was not a requirement.
The baby became known by the mother's surname. That's how the system worked until about 1969. So if mum was using same surname as baby's dad, then baby becomes known by dad's surname only because that was the THEN surname mum was THEN using... It was not compulsory to produce proof of identity such as birth certificates, when seeking to marry. A Baptismal certificate was often sufficient proof, particularly if marrying within your own denomination.
So the baby took on mum's surname, and if mum changed her surname at some stage after birth of baby (by usage, or adopting the surname of her husband on marriage,) then baby would become known by mum's new surname.
So just as Charles Robert JACKSON's birth seems to be indexed under BOYD, so too it may well be that Jacqueline's may be indexed under STEEL, but Cupcake, it is also quite possible that Jacqueline's birth (if registered in NSW) MAY BE indexed under what ever surname HER MUM was using at the time of Jacqueline's birth. So it could well be Titterington, as that's the name Jacqueline's mum was using as per the Electoral Roll.
So I am still wondering about how Jacqueline came to be, at 17 years of age, using the surname STEEL, if as you say, you have nothing to show her mum had ever used that surname herself.
Cheers, JM
Thank you so much for explaining things so clearly.
I can't answer as to why Jacqueline came to be, at 17 years of age, using the surname STEEL. From the little snippet of information, Jacqueline b. 1926 would hardly of known her father.
1928-29
Annie and her de-facto husband, Jack, separated.
1929-30
Jack James, Annie's ex de-facto husband, died
Doubt I'll see Jacqueline's birth cert.
cupcake
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TITTERINGTON Miss A 28 years Linen keeper, embarked on the ORAMA from London on 27 Mar 1925. Contracted to land in Sydney. Last address in the UK 48 Lord Street Southport Country of last permanent residence England. Country of intended permanent residence Australia.
I cannot find a marriage to a John RICHMOND between 1925 and 1927. Perhaps they weren’t married and legally she was a spinster at the 1933 marriage.
There is an online tree on Ancestry with a photo of Annie and her dau. Is it your tree cupcake?
Cando
Annie wasn't long after leaving London, March 1925 and having a daughter in 1926 (no date though).
cupcake
-
Doubt I'll see Jacqueline's birth cert.
cupcake
Well, cupcake, that may possibly be the case, but let's not forget there was nothing to prevent Annie from completing that registration with whatever information she wished, truth or untruth.
No call existed for verification or standards for checking the information given for the registration.
Sue
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I see Annie Titterington's daughter was born in Coogee, NSW. I wonder if she lived in Coogee prior to Redfern or, just gave birth there.
cupcake
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Doubt I'll see Jacqueline's birth cert.
cupcake
Well, cupcake, that may possibly be the case, but let's not forget there was nothing to prevent Annie from completing that registration with whatever information she wished, truth or untruth.
No call existed for verification or standards for checking the information given for the registration.
Sue
If I am correct, it will be at least 2026 before I would be able to look for the birth certificate. Fingers crossed, I am still above ground then.
cupcake
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I see Annie Titterington's daughter was born in Coogee, NSW. I wonder if she lived in Coogee prior to Redfern or, just gave birth there.
cupcake
Cupcake, I suspect you may be attempting to clutch at straws that may well not be there.
Jacqueline STEEL's marriage cert shows that she believed she was born in Coogee.
I have already mentioned that she would not have needed to produce her birth certificate to the priest when she was marrying, it could well be that Coogee was simply where SHE thought she was born. I am quite sure she did not remember her own birth. Her mother was NOT required to validate the information that Jacqueline provided. More than likely Mrs Jackson was not consulted about that detail. Mrs Jackson's role was simply to give (or decline to give) consent to the marriage, and this was simply because Jacqueline was not yet old enough to give consent herself.
Of course, both Coogee and Redfern are suburbs of Sydney, and are still only about 3 miles apart.
So, in the 1940s, a 17 year old lass was marrying a 31 year old chap. He was a cafe proprietor. They were married in Coffs Harbour, around 350 miles north of Sydney. I doubt the Roman Catholic priest would have been fretting over whether Jacqueline was born Coogee or Redfern. Perhaps Coogee was simply a more fashionable suburb back in that era. I notice they were not marrying in Jacqueline's local church.
May I add that :
There’s no mention of Jacqueline in the police notice about Annie, missing since 1 Oct 1927 from her home 70 Redfern Street Redfern, as per the NSW Police Gazette 23 November 1927. So I wonder who was caring for the infant Jacqueline?
Cheers, JM
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Perhaps I am attempting to clutch at straws that may well not be there.
Yes, I had realised Jacqueline didn't marry in her local church - for whatever reason- she may even have converted to Catholic.
Regarding who was caring for the infant Jacqueline?
Late July 1927 after a 6 week voyage Annie's mother, brother and sister stayed in a boarding house in Redfern Road, Redfern. Already living in the Boarding house was Annie, de-facto husband Jack and daughter Jacqueline, who was about a year old.
So, possibily, Annie's mother or Jack looked after her.
Was there a follow up to this missing person, turning up :-\
cupcake
-
Perhaps I am attempting to clutch at straws that may well not be there.
Yes, I had realised Jacqueline didn't marry in her local church - for whatever reason- she may even have converted to Catholic.
Regarding who was caring for the infant Jacqueline?
Late July 1927 after a 6 week voyage Annie's mother, brother and sister stayed in a boarding house in Redfern Road, Redfern. Already living in the Boarding house was Annie, de-facto husband Jack and daughter Jacqueline, who was about a year old.
So, possibily, Annie's mother or Jack looked after her.
Was there a follow up to this missing person, turning up :-\
cupcake
Cupcake,
The notice in the Police Gazette was based on information provided to the NSW Police from Annie's HUSBAND. His name was recorded as John RICHMOND. He was looking for his WIFE, Annie RICHMOND ('may assume the name Titterington or Moffett') . In the police notice there is NO mention of Jack STEEL or of Jacqueline or of a de facto husband, or of Annie moving to her mother and siblings.
Cupcake, are you saying that Annie left England in 1925, arrived in NSW, and by October 1927 had had a) a child, and b) two husbands? (John Richmond and Jack James Steel)
I understand from one of your other threads that you can get to a public library and access the commercial website, Ancestry.
JM
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Yes, from the snippet of information I have Annie arrived in Sydney and 1925/1926 met and commenced living with a Jack James in Sydney. Their daughter was born 1926 (as she was 17 in 1943 when she married.
No, to two husbands as, I still have no information to even one husband. The husband John Richmond is a new one on me.
1928/1929 - Annie and de-facto husband, Jack, separated.
1929/1930 - Jack James, Annie's ex de-facto husband, died. The source for this info was my Aunty (deceased) Annie's sister.
Yes, I can access Ancestry from my library. Might be worth a visit.
cupcake
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Reply#51 Just to refresh your memory ;)
TITTERINGTON Miss A 28 years Linen keeper, embarked on the ORAMA from London on 27 Mar 1925. Contracted to land in Sydney. Last address in the UK 48 Lord Street Southport Country of last permanent residence England. Country of intended permanent residence Australia.
I cannot find a marriage to a John RICHMOND between 1925 and 1927. Perhaps they weren’t married and legally she was a spinster at the 1933 marriage.
Cando
Cheers :)
Cando
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Yes, from the snippet of information I have Annie arrived in Sydney and 1925/1926 met and commenced living with a Jack James in Sydney. Their daughter was born 1926 (as she was 17 in 1943 when she married.
No, to two husbands as, I still have no information to even one husband. The husband John Richmond is a new one on me.
1928/1929 - Annie and de-facto husband, Jack, separated.
1929/1930 - Jack James, Annie's ex de-facto husband, died. The source for this info was my Aunty (deceased) Annie's sister.
Yes, I can access Ancestry from my library. Might be worth a visit.
cupcake
So from the 1930 Electoral Rolls uploaded at Ancestry (Wentworth, polling at Bondi Nth) you already know that Meta Sophia JACKSON, home duties, was enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda Street BONDI, and that Charles Robert JACKSON, motor engineer, was also enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda St BONDI, and that Annie TITTERINGTON, home duties was enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda Street BONDI.
There were elections in NSW 25 Oct 1930, but earlier than that there were Federal elections 28 July 1930. I am suggesting that as Meta’s, Charles’ and Annie’s electoral roll listings are NOT on a supplementary list, that they had been residing at that Matilda St address for quite some time prior to the calling of the July elections. There had been elections in NSW in October 1927. The 1927 rolls should be at the NSW State Library in Sydney. There were federal elections in all seats of the House of Reps in October 1929. NSW State Library would likely have those rolls too. I do not live in Sydney, and I do not have copy of the 1927 or the 1929 rolls.... It was compulsory for all British Subjects aged 21 years and over and living in NSW to enrol to vote.
Charles and Annie married 25 February 1933.
Charles received his Decree Absolute Sept 1931 from Kathleen Alice Jackson. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16800304 17 Sept 1931
Charles had custody of his daughter http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16755210 18 Feb 1931.
Annie quit her marriage (possibly an informal one) with John RICHMOND in Oct 1927, so she should be at the Redfern Street, Redfern address on that 1927 roll.
Doesn't actually leave a lot of time for Jack STEEL at Redfern, particularly when, apart from your Aunty's info to you, there's only the 1943 marriage cert mention for him.
The 'common' factor is in the given names for Annie's partners...
Jack JAMES, Jack James STEEL, Jack STEEL and John RICHMOND.... I wonder if they are one and the same person perhaps ?
Jack and John are interchangeable. :)
Cheers, JM
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Jack Steel was noted as deceased 1929/1930, (as per OP) so who was the Jack STEEL whose pushbike was nicked between 2 and 4 pm on 26th October 1930 from the Esplanade, Brighton le Sands.... The bike was the property of Jack STEEL, residing at 12 Robert Street Marrickville. It was a dark blue, fixedwheel bicycle, No. C3371. It was valued at £8, and was Identifiable, as per NSW Police Gazette 12 Nov 1930.
Trying to find Jack James STEEL death details. All I know is he died 1929/30.
He was the de-facto husband to Annie. They had a daughter around 1926. I believe in 1927, they were living in Redfern.
I have all the relevent information after 1930
cupcake
Cheers, JM
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Yes, from the snippet of information I have Annie arrived in Sydney and 1925/1926 met and commenced living with a Jack James in Sydney. Their daughter was born 1926 (as she was 17 in 1943 when she married.
No, to two husbands as, I still have no information to even one husband. The husband John Richmond is a new one on me.
1928/1929 - Annie and de-facto husband, Jack, separated.
1929/1930 - Jack James, Annie's ex de-facto husband, died. The source for this info was my Aunty (deceased) Annie's sister.
Yes, I can access Ancestry from my library. Might be worth a visit.
cupcake
So from the 1930 Electoral Rolls uploaded at Ancestry (Wentworth, polling at Bondi Nth) you already know that Meta Sophia JACKSON, home duties, was enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda Street BONDI, and that Charles Robert JACKSON, motor engineer, was also enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda St BONDI, and that Annie TITTERINGTON, home duties was enrolled to vote in respect of 39 Matilda Street BONDI.
There were elections in NSW 25 Oct 1930, but earlier than that there were Federal elections 28 July 1930. I am suggesting that as Meta’s, Charles’ and Annie’s electoral roll listings are NOT on a supplementary list, that they had been residing at that Matilda St address for quite some time prior to the calling of the July elections. There had been elections in NSW in October 1927. The 1927 rolls should be at the NSW State Library in Sydney. There were federal elections in all seats of the House of Reps in October 1929. NSW State Library would likely have those rolls too. I do not live in Sydney, and I do not have copy of the 1927 or the 1929 rolls.... It was compulsory for all British Subjects aged 21 years and over and living in NSW to enrol to vote.
Charles and Annie married 25 February 1933.
Charles received his Decree Absolute Sept 1931 from Kathleen Alice Jackson. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16800304 17 Sept 1931
Charles had custody of his daughter http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16755210 18 Feb 1931.
Annie quit her marriage (possibly an informal one) with John RICHMOND in Oct 1927, so she should be at the Redfern Street, Redfern address on that 1927 roll.
Doesn't actually leave a lot of time for Jack STEEL at Redfern, particularly when, apart from your Aunty's info to you, there's only the 1943 marriage cert mention for him.
The 'common' factor is in the given names for Annie's partners...
Jack JAMES, Jack James STEEL, Jack STEEL and John RICHMOND.... I wonder if they are one and the same person perhaps ?
Jack and John are interchangeable. :)
Cheers, JM
Many thanks for the information.
As I said, late July 1927 Annie's mother brother and sister arrived in Sydney and stayed in a boarding house in Redfern Road, Redfern, opposite park. Already living there was Annie de-facto husband J J STEEL and Jacqueline about a year old. So, when Annie, went missing ,there were perhaps family there to look after baby.
About six months later Annie's mother brother and sister, moved to 51 Castlereagh Street, Redfern. Annie and her family stayed on in the boarding house.
I visited the library and got access to Ancestry. I found no John RICHMOND marriage or, a Jack
James STEEL marriage. I too wonder, if they are one and the same person perhaps ? Perhaps a mystery we'll never solve.
However, I did see the photograph Cando mentioned of Annie on Ancestry. Hard to put an age on it, though, perhaps mid twenties. It is a side on photograph and, she has bobbed hair as mentioned in the missing person NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927: Annie would have been 31 years in 1927 and not 28 years. Perhaps they guessed her age.
cupcake
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Have emailed Ask a Librarian at State Library of New South Wales regarding the 1927/1929 rolls.
cupcake
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Many thanks for the information.
As I said, late July 1927 Annie's mother brother and sister arrived in Sydney and stayed in a boarding house in Redfern Road, Redfern, opposite park. Already living there was Annie de-facto husband J J STEEL and Jacqueline about a year old. So, when Annie, went missing ,there were perhaps family there to look after baby.
About six months later Annie's mother brother and sister, moved to 51 Castlereagh Street, Redfern. Annie and her family stayed on in the boarding house.
I visited the library and got access to Ancestry. I found no John RICHMOND marriage or, a Jack
James STEEL marriage. I too wonder, if they are one and the same person perhaps ? Perhaps a mystery we'll never solve.
However, I did see the photograph Cando mentioned of Annie on Ancestry. Hard to put an age on it, though, perhaps mid twenties. It is a side on photograph and, she has bobbed hair as mentioned in the missing person NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927: Annie would have been 31 years in 1927 and not 28 years. Perhaps they guessed her age.
cupcake
Cupcake,
There are some conflicting pieces of information.
From Trove I notice that “70 Redfern Street REDFERN” was a boarding house.
From Google maps street view (Oct 2014) I notice that 70 Redfern Street REDFERN is the same building as in 1927 and it continues to be opposite a park, Redfern Park.
1927 late July So, you have Annie with Jack James STEEL and Jacqueline and Annie’s mum, and Annie’s siblings in the boarding house.
1927 early October (so only possibly nine or ten weeks later) we find that Annie disappears, and stays away, at least until late November. Annie’s disappearance is reported by her husband John RICHMOND, who has moved from 70 Redfern St Redfern to the nearby suburb of Darlinghurst.
1928 January or thereabouts, (ie six months later than late July 1927) You have that Annie’s mother brother and sister move to Castlereagh St Redfern, but despite Annie not being at the boarding house for October and November 1927, and despite Annie’s husband moving to a different suburb, you are stating that you know that Annie and her family stayed on in the boarding house. So, was that Annie and Jacqueline who stayed at the boarding house by themselves? Obviously either John Richmond was either Jacqueline's dad or he was Annie's next partner, and at some time later, but before mid 1930, Annie was living with Meta and Charles, before marrying Charles when Jacqueline was likely about seven years of age. I am still surprised that Jacqueline did not become known by the surname of Jackson.
I am duplicating some links, but by placing them here together I am hoping to assist our OP, so that she does not need to attend her local library to look up Ancestry. NSW BDM indexes are online free to search and regularly updated, Sands Sydney Directories are online free to search, you don't need an Ancestry sub to go to these websites:
Trove : http://trove.nla.gov.au/
Google maps: https://www.google.com.au/maps
NSW BDM : http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
Sands Directories: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory
NSW State Records http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/collection-search
JM
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From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Also
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928
John STEELE died 1928 Parramatta, father Daniel H , mother Elizabeth S reg 16509/1928
regards
Ros
adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
The funeral notice matches up by date to the death registered in the North Sydney district. (31 July 1928 for death)....
Perhaps you need to consider obtaining an official transcription of that dc, to check if there's any mention of a wife and/or a child.... or at least an occupation, or his usual residence/address at Redfern.....
Cheers, JM
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Thank you for the addresses.
Yes, from the little information I have, I am stating that Annie, Jack James and daughter Jacqueline ( about a 1 year old) stayed on in the boarding house. As I said before, the source of info came from Annie's sister (deceased).
For whatever reason, Jacqueline kept the surname STEEL. Apparently, Annie and her de-facto husband Jack, separated 1928/29. So I doubt whether Jacqueline would have remembered her father.
Fingers crossed the State Library of New South Wales can help with 1927/1929 rolls.
cupcake
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Have emailed Ask a Librarian at State Library of New South Wales regarding the 1927/1929 rolls.
cupcake
Have a reply from State Library of New South Wales .
They consulted the 1926, 1928, and 1930 electoral Rolls ( the rolls were produced every two years at this time).
1926 - No Titteringtons on the electoral roll for Redfern (Division of South Sydney, Sub-division of Redfern)
1928 - Titterington, Annie, 51 Castlereagh Street, home duties, F, Redfern (Division of South Sydney, Sub-division of Redfern)
Titterington, Janet, c.o. Maitland, 7 Castlereagh Street, home duties, F, Redfern (Division of South Sydney, Sub-division of Redfern)
1930 - Titterington, Janet, 51 Castlereagh Street, home duties, F, Redfern (Division of South Sydney, Sub-division of Redfern)
In 1928 Annie Titterington was the only person with that surname living at her address.
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Did you ask for those electoral roll look ups to include Jack James STEEL or John James STEEL or John RICHMOND? Afterall, you are striving to sort Jacqueline's paternal line .....
Cheers, JM
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Did you ask for those electoral roll look ups to include Jack James STEEL or John James STEEL or John RICHMOND? Afterall, you are striving to sort Jacqueline's paternal line .....
Cheers, JM
Yes, I am striving to find out Jacqueline's paternal line but my initial request was for Annie living at 70 Redfern Street. Yes, I should have mentioned Jack James Steel :-[.
Have sent another one asking about Jack James Steel and John Richmond.
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Have been looking on Google for 207 Victoria Street, Darlinghurst, where the John Richmond resided in 1927.
There doesn't appear to be a Victoria Street, Darlinghurst - it gives a drop down list saying do you mean - giving 7 options.
cupcake
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http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/scripts/home.asp
From my 1900 map
:) Victoria Street runs from Cowper St Wharf (Woolloomooloo) all the way through to Oxford St (Darlinghurst) and
:) along the way, it passes through Potts Point, so, please check :
:) on the northern side of Oxford St, near to where South Dowling St (from the south) and Barcom St (east of Victoria St) meets Oxford St. can you find Victoria St ?
The post code for that immediate area is likely to be 2011, and that post code includes the suburb of Potts Point. Perhaps you could select that option from the drop down menu.
Re the above live link to the City of Sydney maps. If you look through these many maps, you may notice some that are quite detailed. From several of these, you can see that Victoria St is one of the streets that are ‘boundaries’ between various suburbs and also various electoral wards for the City of Sydney. So, in the 1920s Victoria St where it meets Oxford St was on the ‘cusp’ of Woolloomooloo and Darlinghurst and Paddington (Paddington as in Wollahra Municipal Council local government area)
So, basically, Cup, if Potts Point is one of those options you mention, then why not try it ! Darlinghurst Post Code is 2010. They are next door suburbs.
Cheers, JM
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Your Annie TITTERINGTON spun a web of lies ::)
NSW POLICE GAZETTE - 23 November, 1927:
http://postimg.org/image/hluy34ooj/
Not sure this is my Annie as I believe she had red hair.
cupcake
Lets assume this is my Annie and was married to John Richmond, who resided at 207 Victoria Street, Darlinghurst.
Why then, is she missing from her home at 70 Redfern Street, Redfern
cupcake
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Annie left 70 Redfern St on 1 October 1927
Lets assume this is my Annie and was married to John Richmond, who resided at 207 Victoria Street, Darlinghurst.
Why then, is she missing from her home at 70 Redfern Street, Redfern
Here's a very very logical reason for John moving out.....
So, John had spent quite a number of weeks paying rent for several rooms there, in anticipation that Annie would return.
But once it got to November, 1927 he was reluctant to continue to rent all the rooms that he and Annie had needed, so he searched and he found cheaper accommodation just for himself at 207 Victoria St, Darlinghurst. Then he informed the local police who investigated and consequently raised the disappearance of Annie (but not her daughter Jacqueline) in the Gazette.....
Obviously the NSW police would have checked if Annie was with her mum, at Castlereagh St, Redfern (just around the corner from 70 Redfern St) prior to listing the matter in the Gazette 23 November 1927 (so almost eight weeks after Annie left 70 Redfern St).
There is NO mention in the next several Police Gazettes that I have noticed showing that Mrs Annie RICHMOND was back with Mr John RICHMOND.
To me, a far more significant matter is that there's no mention of Jacqueline, Annie's daughter. I have checked NSW SRO and cannot see any listing re Child Maintenance ..... One of the indexes I have tried :
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/court-records/index-to-divorce-case-papers
Cheers, JM
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Did you order a transcription of John STEEL's 1928 dc?
From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Also
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928
John STEELE died 1928 Parramatta, father Daniel H , mother Elizabeth S reg 16509/1928
regards
Ros
adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
The funeral notice matches up by date to the death registered in the North Sydney district. (31 July 1928 for death)....
Perhaps you need to consider obtaining an official transcription of that dc, to check if there's any mention of a wife and/or a child.... or at least an occupation, or his usual residence/address at Redfern.....
July 1928, North Sydney District, and from Jacqueline's 1943 marriage her Dad was a builder ....
Cheers, JM
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Annie left 70 Redfern St on 1 October 1927
Lets assume this is my Annie and was married to John Richmond, who resided at 207 Victoria Street, Darlinghurst.
Why then, is she missing from her home at 70 Redfern Street, Redfern
Here's a very very logical reason for John moving out.....
So, John had spent quite a number of weeks paying rent for several rooms there, in anticipation that Annie would return.
But once it got to November, 1927 he was reluctant to continue to rent all the rooms, so he found cheaper accommodation just for himself at 207 Victoria St, Darlinghurst, and he informed the local police who investigated and then raised the disappearance in the Gazette.....
Obviously the NSW police would have checked if Annie was with her mum, at Castlereagh St, Redfern (just around the corner from 70 Redfern St) prior to listing the matter in the Gazette 23 November 1927 (so almost eight weeks after Annie left 70 Redfern St).
There is NO mention in the next several Police Gazettes that I have noticed showing that Mrs Annie RICHMOND was back with Mr John RICHMOND.
To me, a far more significant matter is that there's no mention of Jacqueline, Annie's daughter.
Cheers, JM
This does seem a logical reason for John moving out.
I do agree with you that a far more significant matter is, that there's no mention of Jacqueline, Annie's daughter.
cupcake
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....................
To me, a far more significant matter is that there's no mention of Jacqueline, Annie's daughter. I have checked NSW SRO and cannot see any listing re Child Maintenance ..... One of the indexes I have tried :
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/court-records/index-to-divorce-case-papers
I have added a comment and a live link ..... ;)
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Did you order a transcription of John STEEL's 1928 dc?
From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Also
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928
John STEELE died 1928 Parramatta, father Daniel H , mother Elizabeth S reg 16509/1928
regards
Ros
adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
The funeral notice matches up by date to the death registered in the North Sydney district. (31 July 1928 for death)....
Perhaps you need to consider obtaining an official transcription of that dc, to check if there's any mention of a wife and/or a child.... or at least an occupation, or his usual residence/address at Redfern.....
July 1928, North Sydney District, and from Jacqueline's 1943 marriage her Dad was a builder ....
Cheers, JM
I haven't ordered a transcription of John STEEL's 1928 dc. The information I have says Jack James died 1929/1930. ( this source was from Annie's sister)
Jack/John , Jacqueline, I would have thought, came from Jack. She does give her father, on her marriage cert 1943 as John James STEEL building contractor.
Will contact the transcription people and see what they come up with.
cupcake
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From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929
Also
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928
John STEELE died 1928 Parramatta, father Daniel H , mother Elizabeth S reg 16509/1928
regards
Ros
adding : funeral notice for John Joseph STEEL, late of Redfern who died in 1928
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16483402
The John J STEELE died 1929 Sydney, father Seth H, mother Charlotte A reg 5773/1929 is not mine. This one is John Joseph Steele - male 11 days.
John STEEL died 1928 North Sydney, father John, mother Bridget reg 12888/1928 doesn't appear to be mine either.
This John Joseph STEEL is buried at Waverley with his wife Elizabeth Agnes STEEL & their grandson Herbert John STEEL:
MI at Waverley has the following:
STEEL Elizabeth Agnes 27 years died 1 Oct 1893
Wife of John Steel
STEEL J J 69 years died 31 Jul 1928
Husband of above
STEEL Herbert John 16 years died 30 Apr 1932
Grandson of above
Burial location:
Denomination: Catholic
Section: 8 Select
Row: 12
Grave/s: 1292-1293
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So now you are just copying & pasting information I have given you previously in Reply #16 ::) >:(
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=721742.msg5656864#msg5656864
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I cannot see why you have eliminated the chap who died in July 1928 and is buried at Waverley. Afterall, Merlin had clearly provided you with the MIs which show he was widowed back in 1893. I also cannot see where you have followed up re Herbert's father ..... perhaps he was Jack ?
ADD
NSW BDM online index will likely provide you with the names of Herbert's parents.....
I wonder how you are recording any of the information that many of us have sought out for you.
Cheers, JM
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I cannot see why you have eliminated the chap who died in July 1928 and is buried at Waverley. Afterall, Merlin had clearly provided you with the MIs which show he was widowed back in 1893. I also cannot see where you have followed up re Herbert's father ..... perhaps he was Jack ?
ADD
NSW BDM online index will likely provide you with the names of Herbert's parents.....
I wonder how you are recording any of the information that many of us have sought out for you.
Cheers, JM
Herbert J's parents appear to be John B Steel and Louise E ( 5100/1932)
NSW DEATH REGISTRATION TRANSCRIPTION REF NO: 1928/12888
NAME John Steel
DATE OF DEATH 31st July 1928
PLACE Mater Misericordiae General Hospital, North Sydney, late of Redfern Street, Municipality of Redfern
RANK OR PROFESSION Saddler
SEX AND AGE Male, 67 years
CAUSE OF DEATH Lobar pneumonia
CERTIFICATION HD Ashton (registered)
DATE LAST SEEN 30th July 1928
FATHER John Steel
OCCUPATION Labourer
MOTHER Bridget Kelly
INFORMANT HX Steel, son, 40 Excelsior Street, Leichhardt
REGISTRATION Chas Saunders, 31st July 1928, North Sydney
DATE OF BURIAL 1st August 1928
PLACE OF BURIAL Roman Catholic Cemetery, Waverley
UNDERTAKER Joseph Medcalf
MINISTER AND RELIGION Antony Grealy, Roman Catholic
WITNESSES William Dreves and Arthur Bicknell
PLACE OF BIRTH NSW
TIME IN AUST COLONIES No entry
PLACE OF MARRIAGE NSW
AGE AT MARRIAGE About 24 years
NAME OF SPOUSE Elizabeth Agnes Radcliff
CHILDREN OF MARRIAGE William J 40 years, Henry C 38 years, John B 36 years living, none deceased
OTHER SUGGESTIONS OR NOTES None stated
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Hi Cupcakey,
Perhaps the following may be of interest ( John B Steel, the father of Herbert John STEEL who is likely the lad interred at Waverley as per Merlin's post) and so perhaps you may need to ask some questions on the New Zealand board.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16803894 16 Dec 1931 SMH
John Bernard STEEL ............... of 8 Ben Nevis Flats. Hardle-street. Darlinghurst, formerly of Wellington. New Zealand.
Likely this death was registered in the Hurstville district. NSW BDM online has his parents as John J and Elizabeth A (Steel). #18040
Louise Evelyn LOVELL married John Bernard STEEL in 1915, marriage registered in NZ.
I notice that there's three consecutive generations of John Steel recorded on that 1928 NSW dc. (NSW BDM has John B Steel's 1892 birth with mum as Lizzie)
NZ papers past has : http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 151, 23 December 1931, Page 1
On 15th December, 1931, John Bernard Steel, beloved husband of Louise Evelyn Steel and loving father of Herbert John and Joyce Evelyn, at Waterfall Sanatorium, Sydney, N.S.W.; formerly of Newtown, Wellington; after a long and painful illness; aged 39 years. At rest.
Cheers, JM
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Very interesting and will absorb.
Thank you.
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:-[ Removed - sorry - duplicating info that JM had already supplied :(
regards
Ros
-
Has been a while since I posted anything.
Just had a little information regarding Jack James STEEL and his daughter Jacqueline. She saw him for the last time when she was 5 years old, in Bellingen, that would be 1931.
So, perhaps the family moved there from Sydney.
Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas :)
cupcake
-
Has been a while since I posted anything.
Just had a little information regarding Jack James STEEL and his daughter Jacqueline. She saw him for the last time when she was 5 years old, in Bellingen, that would be 1931.
So, perhaps the family moved there from Sydney.
Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas :)
cupcake
Cup,
It is unlikely that Jack James STEEL resided in Bellingen in 1931.
You coulf check NSW BDM and notice that there’s NO deaths registered in the Bellingen NSW BDM district in the name of STEEL in the years since civil registration commenced until the most recent date for unrestricted access. That is often a good indication of if a family resided in a district of NSW during the 130 years to 1985.
Here’s another way of checking :
By 1930, it was compulsory for all British Subjects (no such legal status as Australian Citizen until after WWII) who resided in Australia and who were aged 21 years of age or more to be enrolled to vote. Bellingen was in the NSW electorate of RALEIGH and the Federal electorate of COWPER.
From the 1930 Electoral Rolls for those electorates, there’s NO ONE with the surname STEEL or variations.
From the 1932 Electoral Rolls for those electorates, there’s NO ONE with the surname STEEL or variations.
Of course, perhaps Jack James STEEL was no longer living by 1931 ... Cup, please go back through all your threads and check.
Happy Christmas
ADD
Don't forget that you have him as deceased
Trying to find Jack James STEEL death details. All I know is he died 1929/30.
He was the de-facto husband to Annie. They had a daughter around 1926. I believe in 1927, they were living in Redfern.
I have all the relevent information after 1930
cupcake
Cheers, JM
-
Hi folks,
EDIT.....
Retracted my post as I now understand a few things regarding family members & lack of info. to help OP.
Annie
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Cup,
The family in Bellingen were Charles Robert and Annie JACKSON, and they are on the electoral roll with address at Bellingen from 1936..... As to Jacqueline being in Bellingen in 1931, when the Great Depression was causing much grief in New South Wales families .... how did Jacqueline get there/ who was she staying with/.... well I cannot tell, but if you look back through this thread you should be able to trace Annie's movements.
http://bellingenmuseum.org.au/
Cheers, JM
-
JM,
Many thanks once again. The little info I got recently from cousin Australia is probably incorrect, as they have Jacqueline's date of birth, wrong.
I'll go back to the beginning and start over again.
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Just received this snippet of information on Annie Titterington. She was working as a barmaid in the Redfern/Paddington area of Sydney. No year given, but have asked if than give one.
-
Hi,
I will try to find some quiet time to go back through my offline NSW resources to see if there's any further information I can find to help validate that info.
JM
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Just received this snippet of information on Annie Titterington. She was working as a barmaid in the Redfern/Paddington area of Sydney. No year given, but have asked if than give one.
What, who is the source of the snippet, please?
Jamjar
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Was posted on here by mistake. So please ignore .
-
Was posted on here by mistake. So please ignore .
Can you confirm that you do not want any information to do with her being a barmaid?
J.
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Was posted on here by mistake. So please ignore .
Can you confirm that you do not want any information to do with her being a barmaid?
J.
I do wish any information on Annie being a barmaid, but didn't mean to post twice. We all make mistakes.
-
Thank you JM :).
-
Okey doke.
As JM already responded to it on this thread, maybe it would be best to delete it from the other thread.
Where and from whom did the snippet come from? Knowing this may help with locating the information?
J.
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I don't know how to delete from another thread.
The snippet of information was from a cousin in Australia, may or may not be correct. Fingers crossed JM can validate this.
-
To delete a post use the 'Modify'. it will only delete the words not the actual post, but you can just type deleted due to duplication or the like.
So, just a word of mouth snippet.
J.
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Thank you for that.
I never ignore information regardless how small it may be, on the chance it could be correct.
cupcake
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Just received this snippet of information on Annie Titterington. She was working as a barmaid in the Redfern/Paddington area of Sydney. No year given, but have asked if than give one.
Hi,
I will try to find some quiet time to go back through my offline NSW resources to see if there's any further information I can find to help validate that info.
JM
It mentions on Annie's marriage certificate 1933 - occupation - Barmaid - 52 Regent Street, Paddington.
cupcake
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You are referring to the NSW marriage to Charles JACKSON. Can you refresh my grey cells and when you have a spare moment, type up the info from that mc please.
JM
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You are referring to the NSW marriage to Charles JACKSON. Can you refresh my grey cells and when you have a spare moment, type up the info from that mc please.
JM
25 February 1933 Charles Robert Jackson Motor Engineer Bondi, Sydney NSW
PADDINGTON Annie Titterington Barmaid 52 Regent Street. Paddington Sydney NSW
Manicipality
Married at
Registrars Office
Town Hall
Divorced Petitioner Sydney, NSW 43 William Haenry Jackson (deceased) Grazier
Meta Sophia Boyd
Spinster Kirby Lonsdale, England 36 William Ernest Titterington (deceased) Watchmaker
Janet Moffat