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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jaznjjj on Thursday 28 May 15 01:18 BST (UK)
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I was re-examining a marriage certificate and decided to check out the witnesses. On looking up Theophilus CAROLUS I discovered that he ran the 'World's Matrimonial Institute' at 471 Pitt Street, Sydney and was apparently responsible for arranging marriages for at least two thousand couples. The marriage I am researching was in 1898 but his advertisements start in 1900 according to Trove. He appears to have been originally a house decorator in Melbourne and, according to one Trove article, he was a "sable-hued matrimonial man from Mauritius". It seems that ministers of many denominations were available to conduct the ceremonies.
Would be very happy to learn more about this institute and Mr CAROLUS. I imagine he is a witness on many marriage certificates! It seems at the time roughly one in four marriages were conducted through matrimonial agencies - though I have no supporting data for that other than one Trove quote.
J
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/167903293 7 June 1903, Truth
Includes artist sketch of Theophilus.
Cheers, JM
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And his wife
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14647534 SMH 24 Aug 1904.
What a great gift is Trove. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks. Will have a look now. Yes, Trove is wonderful! I wish the British newspaper searches were searchable in the same way. J
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City of Sydney Assessment books
1911 page 90 Cook Ward
2 Henry St, Edith CAROLUS, a brick house, iron roof, two floors, four rooms, £23 pa gross annual value, (for assessing value for Council to determine the rates) House owned by Municipal Council of Sydney.
1902 page 22 Phillip Ward
471 Pitt St, Thomas CAROLUS, Brick house, slate roof, 3 floors, 6 rooms £65 House owned by George R Whiting.
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives
Cheers, JM
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Hi,
1902 Sands, Sydney Directory.
Listed under Alphabetical.
The Art Decorating Co, Ecclesiastical and house decorators and general contractors, T, Carolus, manager, 471, Pitt St.
World's Matrimonial Institute, 471 Pitt St, South Sydney, near railway station., T. Carolus, manager.
Also
Listed under Streets.
471 Pitt St, World's Matrimonial Association, T. Carolus, manager.
471 Pitt St, The Art Decorating Co, Ecclesiastical and house decorators and general contractors, T, Carolus, manager.
Gerry
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1898 Sands Sydney & NSW Directory
Carolus T., manager, Art Decorating Company, 57, Phillip St.
Correct surname but probably wrong person.
Colonial Office List 1863
Mauritius
Gaols
Clerk, T. Carolus.
Colonial Office List 1870
Mauritius
Police Department
Clerk, T. Carolus.
Gerry
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Interesting! Theophilus not at the address in 1911 with Edith. THOMAS at 471 Pitt Street in 1902. Looks like I need to open a file for this family. Have to work out whether the Pitt Street address (6 rooms) was the family's dwelling and/or an office and also the place where marriages were carried out. Need to find out how the ministers/priests etc were recruited and whether they performed the marriages at Pitt Street or in their own churches. Were banns no longer posted? From when could marriages be conducted at registry offices? It looks like 1900 version of present-day on-line dating services! It seems that Theophilus would have been quite an entrepreneur and businessman as well as being a 'colourful' character. I wonder how that sat with the community? Obviously his clientele had no issues and it seems he was filling an important societal niche. J
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Thank you Gerry, I'll see if it all goes together. The geography is right and the timeline fits. A few more jigsaw puzzle pieces to be found - this is only a very new direction for research for me. We know he came from Mauritius and that he was a house decorator in Melbourne. J
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Here he is arriving in Victoria.
CAROLUS Theophile
Aged 28
Date JUN 1884
Ship DUPUY DE LOUIE
F 211/002
Sue
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That 57 Phillip Street address looked familiar. I've seen a reference to it in a thread which indicates that in December 1900 it was the Independent Presbyterian Church. J
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Thanks Sue, another important datum for the timeline. Wouldn't it be good if there were descendants out there to share this with!
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Correct surname but probably wrong person.
Colonial Office List 1863
Mauritius
Gaols
Clerk, T. Carolus.
Colonial Office List 1870
Mauritius
Police Department
Clerk, T. Carolus.
Gerry
I agree Gerry,
If the age on immigration is correct, 28, then he would be too young for the above job.
Sue
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A death which makes him born in the right time-frame-
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CAROLUS Jos Theophilus
Father Carolus Theophilus
Juliana KEWIST
Death Place PRAN
Age 71
Year 1934
Reg 3968
Sue
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Yes, I agree about that 28 year old immigrant being too young to hold down the Mauritius position. Family member? Maybe Carolus in Mauritius is like Smith here?
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perhaps he travelled between states -
In 1917 on the Vic. Electoral Roll
224 Batman Street W. Melbourne
Theophilus CAROLUS, artist.
No further registration for him until 1931
26 Thames St. Northcote
Theophilus CAROLUS , artist
Maud Mary CAROLUS, HD
Sue
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Yes, if he came from Melbourne to Sydney, it's also possible he moved back there. I'm told that one of the Sydney universities has paperwork relating to businesses in Sydney - will have to see if I can track that down as it may give an indication how long he was in the matrimonial business in Sydney. Will print out this thread later, extract the information and put it into sequence/context - I'm away from home at the moment so a bit limited with what I can do. It just occurred to me that the "Thomas" in an earlier post could just be a clerical misrepresentation of Theophilus.
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A marriage with an error I think!
10810/1923 CAROLUS Josephus T.
CAROLUS Maude M
MOSMAN
The death of This woman in Victoria
CAROLUS Maud Mary
Father McMAHON Michael
Mother Mary CORKER
Death Place BALLT E
Age 57
Year 1935
15471
In 1934, she was registered for voting at
74 Linacre Rd. Sandringham.
No others of the surname.
Sue
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1934 death notice for Theo.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10938164?searchTerm=
Gerry
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Possibly there was an earlier marriage and this death in NSW
11894/1912 CAROLUS Edith J.
Parents James & Mildred J
At NEWTOWN
This death suggest they had a daughter
28887/1977 CAROLUS Elizabeth Juliana Theoph
Parents Josephus Theophilus & Edith Jane.
Sue
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Theo's wife supposedly Edith Carolus C1900 so looking for a death or divorce and subsequent re-marriage I guess.
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Our posts crossed over.
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Possibly his last Sydney address before moving to Melbourne.
1931 Sands Sydney & NSW Directory
Carolus, T., 84, Gerard St, Cremorne.
Gerry
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Theo's wife supposedly Edith Carolus C1900 so looking for a death or divorce and subsequent re-marriage I guess.
I gave you the death above Reply #19
ADDING the marriage
4611/1896 CAROLUS Theophilus
FROST Edith J
SYDNEY
Birth of the daughter
28850/1901 CAROLUS Elizabeth J T
Parents Josephus T & Edith J
At SYDNEY
Sue
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The Ryerson Index lists death notices for both mother and daughter
CAROLUS Edith Jane
19 Sep 1912
Aged 43
At Royal Prince Alfred Hospital
Published in Sydney Morning Herald
On 21 Sep 1912
CAROLUS Elizabeth J T
23 Nov 1977
Aged Death 76
At St. Vincent's Hospital
Late of Potts Point
Published in Sydney Morning Herald
On 30 Nov 1977
Sue
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Many thanks. Away from the computer for a while. J
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In NSW Civil registration of marriages commenced March 1856.
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/ma1899n15112.pdf
NSW Marriage Act 1899. :) Part II Celebration of Marriage
2) Marriages by registrar.
I have had a good look at through my collection of NSW marriages, cannot find any officiated by registrar pre WWI. I will check further, and I have phoned my reliable elderly rellie a retired NSW BDM senior officer. Fingers crossed, as it seems logical to me that with the introduction of divorce to NSW in 1873 (a civil court matter) that there would have already been in place the opportunity for civil registry office marriages BUT even with 50 years plus of NSW Centric family/local history, I don't think that excellent question has crossed my mind. I do know that "Intention to Marry" notices continue to be lodged with NSW Registrar by the licenced celebrants (who of course include Ministers of Religion).
From when could marriages be conducted at registry offices?
Cheers, JM
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=660501.0
which of course gives us the link to the 1855 Act, which came into force with the introduction of civil registration, 1 March 1856, and the District Registrars were able to conduct civil marriage.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/ma1855n30112.pdf
Now, to figure out if Theo was one of the district registrars........ I have that in my trusty reference book, which as usual is on loan to friends at the mo.
::) Cheers, JM
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Few more item of interest.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/124510781?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137891228?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/126434222?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114019848?searchTerm=
Gerry
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1904, Theo refuses to marry a couple
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/79386640?searchTerm=
Advertisement, 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/116768156?searchTerm=
Gerry
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THEOPHILUS CAROLUS
and
WORLDS MATRIMONIAL INSTITUTE
This gentleman, born on the island of Mauritius about 1856, arrived in Victoria on board the Dupay de Louie in 1884. He is in Melbourne in 1888 where he appears to have set himself up in business as a house decorator. At some time between 1888 and 1894 he arrives in Sydney and sets up World’s Matrimonial Institute at 471 Pitt Street. This business, according to newspaper accounts, is the first of its kind in Australia. It does a rousing business, arranging marriages for 4000 couples between 1894 and 1900 and an unknown number between 1901 and 1904. At the same address Theophilus also has registered The Art Decorating Company and World’s General Enquiries and Private Detective. The house is described in the City of Sydney assessment books, 1902, as being of brick with a slate roof, three floors, six rooms. It was owned by George R. Whiting which indicates Theophilus was leasing the property.
Theophilus Carolus marries Edith Jane Frost at Sydney in 1896. They have a daughter, Elizabeth J.T, at Sydney in 1901. Elizabeth dies in 1977.
In 1911 his wife, Edith, is living at Henry Street in what is possibly council housing.
1912 – death notice for Edith J. Carolus at Newtown.
In 1917 Theophilus shows up on the Victorian Electoral Roll at West Melbourne. This is an anomaly or is he moving around a lot?
Theophilus is listed as being in Sydney (Mosman) in 1919 as an Art and Ecclesiastical Decorator.
In 1923, also at Mosman, he marries Maud Mary (probably McMahon).
In 1931 he and his wife, Maud Mary are at Northcote, Vic. Though in that year he still shows up in the Sands Directory at Cremorne.
Theophilus dies in 1934 – Victoria.
In 1935 his widow, Maud Mary Carolus, dies – Victoria.
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Other addresses from the PO Directories and newspapers.
1905.
Carolus. T., manager World's Matrimonial Institute and The Art Decorating Co, 39 Bent St, Sydney.
1906
Carolus, R or K., World's Matrimonial Agency, 463, Pitt St.
Carolus. T. J., Art Decorating Co, 463, Pitt St.
October 1919.
11 Redan St, Mossman.
Feb 1920.
52 Redan St, Mossman.
Gerry
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Thank you. I'll incorporate that information.
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In NSW Civil registration of marriages commenced March 1856.
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/num_act/ma1899n15112.pdf
NSW Marriage Act 1899. :) Part II Celebration of Marriage
2) Marriages by registrar.
I have had a good look at through my collection of NSW marriages, cannot find any officiated by registrar pre WWI. I will check further, and I have phoned my reliable elderly rellie a retired NSW BDM senior officer. Fingers crossed, as it seems logical to me that with the introduction of divorce to NSW in 1873 (a civil court matter) that there would have already been in place the opportunity for civil registry office marriages BUT even with 50 years plus of NSW Centric family/local history, I don't think that excellent question has crossed my mind. I do know that "Intention to Marry" notices continue to be lodged with NSW Registrar by the licenced celebrants (who of course include Ministers of Religion).
From when could marriages be conducted at registry offices?
Cheers, JM
Off topic but relevant in its way. I have a Registry Office marriage at Adelong in 1872. I only have a Transcript but the GLYNN/HAMMOND marriage is recorded as occurring at the "Registrar Office, Adelong" on 17 Aug 1872. The marriage was conducted by William J. SHELLEY and a quick google search found his obit. that stated that he was Churchwarden, Returning Officer, J.P., and Coroner in Tumut & Adelong. Not an ordained minister and therefore must have had a civil power to perform marriages.
Regards, Darryl
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Thank you for that. It's good that you have found an example. Even with such a small sample it seems that civil marriages were a minority. You have to wonder what the circumstances were.
I have gathered quite a file on Theophilus Carolus. J
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Hi,
Here is an article from 1896 re another Matrimonial Agency and it looks like all of the marriages were performed by Ministers of Religion.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/98558790?searchTerm=
Gerry
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It all adds to the big picture and the use of matrimonial agencies more widespread than I would have imagined. So, there were "normal" procedure using churches, then the matrimonial agencies and registry offices. Have to look at the relative costs of each option and consider what the reasons were for couples making particular choices.
It also occurs to me that it was a good option for ministers of religion to receive payment from the matrimonial agencies, rather than get nothing at all. I wonder how it was entered in the bookkeeping of the respective churches?
By the way, have located a 15 page brochure or booklet at the State Library NSW issued by World's Matrimonial Institute - have to find a day when I can get in there to have a look. J
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Thank you for that. It's good that you have found an example. Even with such a small sample it seems that civil marriages were a minority. You have to wonder what the circumstances were.
I have gathered quite a file on Theophilus Carolus. J
Thank you for sharing you information about Theophilis Carolus. I too have him on a marriage certificate with Edith Carolus as witnesses. George Lewis as minister. Religion Congregational Mission Church. This was in 1898. Your information answers my question about their relationship to the married couple. Although it now raises questions as to why they chose to be married that way.
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I too have had to consider the reasons a couple might choose to use a matrimonial agency rather than a conventional church. I can think that it could be the expense, wanting not to have banns read, not having to prove you are of legal age or otherwise free to marry, in some ways like an elopement if there was family pressure NOT to marry. You can probably think of other scenarios.
1898 is the same year as the marriage of my ancestors - he an older man, she possibly as young as 16 and pregnant with second child. Thank you too for sharing. J
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"if there was family pressure NOT to marry. "
The above reason could possibly be true. The bride was 25, gentlewoman daughter of a man of independent means. The groom was 22 and a labourer living far from where his family lived.
I have been reading the exploits of Theophilus Carolus in Trove. It is a wonder he found time to earn a living with all the time he spent in court. Edith had a fair share of time in the witness box too.
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Yes, sounds like a possibility given their respective ages and social situation :)
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I have just come across this post when I Googled 471 Pitt Street Sydney to see where my grandparents got married. The witnesses on their marriage certificate are Theophilus Carolus and Edith Carolus. They were married on 25th September 1902 at 471 Pitt Street, Sydney "According to the rites of the New Unitarian Church". They were both of age and neither were divorced according to the marriage certificate, however they were cousins so probably pressure from the family NOT to marry. Their first child was born in Dubbo in 1902 (not sure of the exact date) so could have been before or after the marriage but their second child was born in Paddington NSW in October 1903. Thought you might find this interesting.
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Hi Maxine, It has been my opinion that the Matrimonial Agency served to facilitate marriages of those couples for whom there were factors which made marriage difficult otherwise. I have recently visited the Mitchell Library where I viewed and I copied the pamphlet put out by World's Matrimonial Assoc. There's nothing specific to my family or anyone else's, but it gives some context. I have also gathered information about Theophilus Carolus and I am happy to share if you care to PM me. J
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Hi J,
I will send you a PM with email address, may I please have a copy of that document, as my retired NSW BDM rellie is 'fascinated' ... (I am too ).
JM
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Delighted to be able to share!
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MAJM, just checking you received my response to your PM via email? Just making sure it landed. J
Theophilus Carolus is an interesting character, yes?
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Hi,
Yes, thanks, I received emails Sunday evening, including the one where you mention another trip planned to Mitchell Library with camera. I know very little about iPhones but umm my mobile does is very difficult to master when it comes to downloading photos.
Theo Carolus is very intriguing. - very very very intriguing.
ADD
So I have 3 images and one word doc. :D
Cheers, JM
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I'll email the whole series of images from yesterday. Always tricky photographing in less than ideal conditions. I can't guarantee how clear some of them will be but hopefully with both lots of images we will eventually have the whole sequence. Getting the SL to scan and copy is expensive - plus they do not seem particularly eager to do it (which I can understand).
The issue with my iPhone was that I had to email the images to myself, and could only send a small number at a time - then had to download them etc.
See you in an email. J
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Many thanks, all present and correct, including of course, the wonderful Trim.
JM
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I can't go to the State Library without visiting Trim! J
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How wonderful is Rootschat, that I can find lots more on Theophilus Carolus, 5 years after this original post. Thank you
And to add to the mystery of the workings of the World Matrimonial Agency, 471 Pitt St, Sydney, my great grandparents John Fahey (50) and Amy Elizabeth Dale (32) (both single) were married there 23 July 1900. He Catholic, she Protestant. He from Reids Flat (Boorowa), she from Woollahra. By this stage they had 4 children, only 1 registered as 'Unknown DALE'.
Presiding over the marriage was Seraphim Phocas (Greek Orthodox Priest), Witnesses Theophilus CAROLUS and Joice JONES.
The Agency seems the only place these two could be joined as husband and wife, given the complexity of their life together thus far!
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So glad the information helps you. It looks like it helped those who could not, or chose not to, use normal channels. I visited the State Library and they copied for me a booklet that Theo had published. Nothing of astounding interest in it but good to see how he advertised his services,
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What an informative thread! :D
My great grandmother was divorced and was remarrying a Roman Catholic so the Matrimonial Institute was a good solution for them. Their 1900 marriage is witnessed by Edith Carolus and Joice Jones. Minister George Hay
Trove is a fantastic resource https://www.change.org/p/fully-fund-trove