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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: FionaO on Sunday 24 May 15 11:17 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
Just curious about a phrase used by my Grandmother and wondered if anybody knows if it denotes a particular religion or area as it's not a saying I've heard before.
She said about her son "we got Graham churched at Parish Church in Rotherham before he could visit anyone in their own home.”
My Grandmother was born Hartlepool (1907), lived in and around Newcastle before gradually moving down to Doncaster and then Rotherham where Graham was born in 1934. She was never particularly religious, has both C of E and Catholics in her tree, took the pledge and encouraged said Graham to join the Salvation Army (they wouldn't let him play the trumpet/drum so he declined).
Any thoughts?
Fionaoh
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Women used to be "churched" after giving birth in earlier times -- to cleanse them of the "sin" of sexual activity need to produce a child
Tho why it was a sin for the woman and not the man -- or even why it was a sin at all as marriage was designed for the procreation of children -- i don't know
I hadn't heard of the custom lasting into the 1900's before
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It sounds as though there may have been some confusion or incorrect terminology on the part of your grandmother. Churching was done to the mother, and a baby would be baptised (or christened), but both would have happened at around the same time. It would be worth looking for a baptism at Rotherham Parish Church, if you don't have it already.
Arthur
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There are several other RootsChat topics about Churching in the
RootsChat Reference Library (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/index.php) => Lexicon (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=C)
You can find more details and some external links there.
regards,
Bob
Updated: I have now added this topic to the Lexicon, too.
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Thanks All,
The comment was made and noted (thanks to a cousin) in the 1980's and we'd always assumed she meant christened but thought I'd ask if it was a phrase which was used in the local area just to add a little flesh to the bones, so to speak.
Oooh, and I've bookmarked that link Berlin-Bob as it does look very useful.
Thanks again
Fionaohthereissomuchmoretothissitethanithought
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Churched often applied to a child that was baptised at home usually because it was sickly and not expected to survive. The original baptism was often recorded in the register as half baptised. This sometimes led to a second entry in the register and the child appearing to be baptised twice.
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Not sure Graham was a sickly child but I do know the whole family moved from Rotherham to London when he was 6 weeks old. Could it be they just wanted it done quickly?
Fionao
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Women used to be "churched" after giving birth in earlier times -- to cleanse them of the "sin" of sexual activity need to produce a child
In the CoE it's "The Thanksgiving of Woman after Child-Birth, commonly called The Churching of Women". The service says
"Forasmuch as it hath pleased Almighty God of his goodness to give you safe deliverance, and hath preserved you in the great danger of childbirth: You shall therefore give hearty thanks unto God and say ..... [priest then reads Psalm 116 or Psalm 127 ..... Lord's Prayer .... couple of other prayers] ... Almighty God, we give thee humble thanks or that thou hast vouchsafed to deliver this woman thy servant from the great pain and peril of child-birth: Grant, we beseech thee, most merciful Father, that she through they help may both faithfully live and walk according to thy will in this life present: and also may be partaker of everlasting glory in the life to come; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen"
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Women used to be "churched" after giving birth in earlier times -- to cleanse them of the "sin" of sexual activity need to produce a child
Tho why it was a sin for the woman and not the man -- or even why it was a sin at all as marriage was designed for the procreation of children -- i don't know
I hadn't heard of the custom lasting into the 1900's before
Churching of Women in the Christian Church was a service of thanksgiving and nothing to do with 'uncleaness'
This site gives a comprehensive explanation of 'Churching' http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mikef/church.html#intro
In Jewish Law the 'uncleaness' came from the bleeding, not from the birth. The period of uncleaness after the birth of a baby boy, 40 days, was half the period of for a girl, 80 days. After 40 days(or 80days) the time of purification was completed, and the woman went to the priest with a sacrificial offering after which she was ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
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ahhh
i seem to have got the reasons a bit mixed up. Thanks for the clarifications
I was under the impression that a woman who had recently given birth was considered "unclean" untill she had been "churched"
Another custom i remember reading about (but can't remember where) was that a woman who wanted to have a baby but was having difficulty conceiving would go and sit on the bed of an unchurched mother in the hope of "catching" fertility
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The trouble is that although the church service was one of thanksgiving there was a sort of folklore about churching - my Auntie Vi was told by Grandma she wasn't allowed into her mother's house until she was churched, after the death of her eldest child - I think the Vicar probably had something to say to Grandma about it, as nothing further was said about it.
But I've never heard about "churching" in respect of a baby.
Derby Girl
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You can read about Churching of Women in the Roman Catholic Church at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03761a.htm
But I've never heard about "churching" in respect of a baby.
Derby Girl
The baptism service consists of two parts, the baptism itself and the public receiving of the infant before the congregation at a service in the church as a member of Christ’s flock. If a child is baptised privately, they ought to be brought to the Church as soon as possible to be received as members of " the flock of true Christian people". This is why the term "half baptised" is sometimes used, because the second part has not been carried out. However children that are baptized privately, are not half baptized, as it was commonly called, but "truly and validly baptized".
It is very rare for the C of E to hold private baptisms today, according to our vicar, and not encouraged.
Stan
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I was churched by the hospital chaplain after I had my 2nd daughter in 1977.
It is an old CofE practice although not often used.
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I understand my grandmother was churched after each of her confinements. She had 11 children between 1911 and 1936. Just looked all the babies were 2-3 weeks old when baptized. So, I assume she was churched later. She was Church of England.
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I was churched by the hospital chaplain after I had my 2nd daughter in 1977.
It is an old CofE practice although not often used.
It is now called "Thanksgiving for the Gift of a Child"
https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/initiation/thanksgiftchild.aspx
Stan
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You can read about Churching of Women in the Roman Catholic Church at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03761a.htm
In the RC church the primary blessing for a woman after childbirth is now part of the revised rite of baptism itself.
Stan
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Hi All,
Very interesting replies (and appropriate for a Sunday).
But now I am confused as I believe the notes were written verbatim so I really do wonder what my Grandmother meant.
Fionaoh
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In the 1960's when I had my children it was still considered that before taking a baby into a house other than you own home it should be taken to church first - usually for baptism. That is probably what the old lady meant by the baby being 'churched' - the first house visited was the house of God at a time when religious observance was widespread.
With some very bad weather my eldest's gt grandma was very happy to care for her for an hour in her house so that I could do some shopping a week before the baptism service. She didn't hold with those 'old wives tales'.
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Hi Lilym,
Thanks for that info as that does sound more likely. If Rotherham's parish records appear on line at least I know there is only a 6 week window to look through.
Thanks again to you all.
Fionao