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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Del 80 on Saturday 23 May 15 15:47 BST (UK)
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After looking for a death for Lizzie Herd, for about four years now, still no luck.....now that I have retired, I intend to spend more time on finding her, starting with visits to local library....I have her up to 1911....any suggestions for finding her after that ? for instance, how would I find out if she was at the same address in 1912 ? and onwards......any thoughts appreciated........Del.
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Hello,
Can you just clarify something. On another thread you accept her as married to Charles Robinson. Is that still the case?
Heywood
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Rather than start with "Where is ..." it might be appropriate to refer to at least one of your earlier threads to avoid looking up the same stuff again. :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=659466.0
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Heywood, Yes, all indications are that she married Charles Robinson......I have a copy of the marriage certificate......Del.
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Free BMD has a couple of Grantham deaths:
Lizzie M Robinson 75 yrs in 1941
Lizzie Robinson 74 yrs in 1956
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Heywood, Yes, all indications are that she married Charles Robinson......I have a copy of the marriage certificate......Del.
I don't understand why you are looking for a death for Lizzie Herd. ???
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Heywood, Apologies, of course her married name was Robinson.....Del.
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Lizzie is quite complicated.......as the other threads on this subject will show......born Lizzie HERD.....brought up by John AYTO......married as Lizzie HEARD......I always include the name Herd when searching for her, in case anyone picks up on it........Del.
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As there are no likely deaths in Grantham for Charles, Lizzie or Stanley Robinson either they moved on elsewhere in the UK or emigrated.
With a common name like Robinson it's hard to say where they went.
Annette
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Annette, Yes, I believe that they must have moved away from the Grantham area, hence my original question of how best to find out when.....and if possible to where .......I cannot find them on any passenger lists of the time, which suggests that they stayed in this country....I have also checked wills and probate, and again nothing comes up......next step is local library to see if they have electoral rolls for the period after the 1911 census, to try to narrow down when they moved away.......a classic case of needing the 1921 census I think !!...........Del.
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Have you got the exact date of birth for her son Stanley, as if he died after 1968 in this country it will make it easier to identify him?
Lizzie will not show on ER's for a good few years after 1911, and if they moved around there will be several Charles Robinsons as possibles.
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Stanley is given on the 1911 census as being 8 years old......so born 1902/03......his father Charles is a baker, and his mother Lizzie is mistranscribed as LINNIE Robinson.......I believe that she was still alive in 1930..........Del.
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So you have not got his birth certificate for exact date of birth, which could help identify him in a variety of records around the world.
Why do you think she was still alive in 1930, and Where was she believed to be then?
Have you considered that Lizzie could have married again, and Stanley taken a new surname.
If Charles is a baker, is he in any trade directories/shop entries?
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Even if you are able to establish when they moved away it won't be any help in determining where they went so you won't be any further forward than you are now!
I agree with chempat - if you get Stanley's birth certificate to obtain his exact birthdate, if he died after 1968 you should hopefully then be able to locate his death entry in the indexes and establish what area he died in which may help in determining Charles and Lizzie's deaths which hopefully were in that same area.
Aside from this suggestion you will continue to go round in circles with such a common surname!
Annette
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Free BMD has a couple of Grantham deaths:
Lizzie M Robinson 75 yrs in 1941
Lizzie Robinson 74 yrs in 1956
What about Elizabeth? Have you looked for Elizabeth Robinson as well?
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I believe that Lizzie was still alive in 1930 because at her step father John Ayto's funeral, one of the mourners was a Mrs. Robinson......given as his daughter, of course that does not tell me where she was living, but is pretty strong evidence that she was still alive, interestingly, there is no mention of a Mr. Robinson , so had he died ?.....or simply didn't attend the funeral ?.......so many questions regarding Lizzie, but I WILL find out ......one day........Del.
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I believe that Lizzie was still alive in 1930 because at her step father John Ayto's funeral, one of the mourners was a Mrs. Robinson......given as his daughter, of course that does not tell me where she was living, but is pretty strong evidence that she was still alive, interestingly, there is no mention of a Mr. Robinson , so had he died ?.....or simply didn't attend the funeral ?.......so many questions regarding Lizzie, but I WILL find out ......one day........Del.
If she turned up to his funeral, perhaps she was hoping for a slice of the pie. It might be an idea to consider finding if he had a will at some point ... see if that gives clues as to where she's living and who else in the family is around/where.
Add that to your "Long Shot" pencilled list.
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I have checked for Elizabeth Robinson's......also Betty and Eliza.....of course lots come up, but no way of knowing if it is her or not.....have also checked wills and probate for John Ayto, again nothing showing.....I know that our local library hold Grantham street directories so am going to trawl through those, of course if they did move away, then it could be a fruitless exercise, but there must be something out there to point me in the right direction.....I shall also send for Stanley Robinson's birth certificate........Del.
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Was Stanley mentioned at the funeral?
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Probably Stanley's birth - so late August/September to December birth date
Births December quarter 1902 Stanley Robinson Grantham 7a 471
and about 3 other 'Stanley Robinson' no middle name, born in that time frame (though possibly some others registered outside the October to December period,) in Barnsley, Middlesbro', and Darlington.
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3 deaths for Stanley Robinson born late 3rd quarter and 4th quarter 1902
Stanley Robinson
Birth 10 Dec 1902 Death Apr 1984 - Oldham, Lancashire, England
Stanley Robinson
Birth 22 Oct 1902 Death Jan 1988 - Central Cleveland
Stanley Robinson
Birth 22 Sep 1902 Death Dec 1969 - Coventry
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No mention of Stanley at the funeral.
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Interestingly, when Lizzie's half sister Alice Collumbell died in 1962, amongst the floral tributes was one from ''Stanley Robinson and Rita''......whether this is just a coincidence or not I don't know.....I have looked for a marriage for a Stanley and a Rita, but nothing comes up......Del.
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I think that if Stanley was married to Rita, then it would say:
'from Stanley and Rita Robinson'
so Rita could be Stanley's daughter....
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However, there are marriages of Stanley Robinsons to Rita's around the country, e.g.
Marriages December quarter 1937
Stanley Robinson to Rita M Thomas/Birchall in Salford.
There is also a death for a Stanley Robinson born 28th August 1902 in June 1969 in Heywood
Heywood to Salford is about 9 miles.
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Mmhh.....You've got me thinking now....will have a look for Rita Robinson births, as I said, it could be just a coincidence, there seem to be rather a lot of them with Lizzie........Del.
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Just to confuse things even further, when Alice Ayto's son, William Collumbell, died in 1973, amongst the floral tributes was one from "Stan and Olive Robinson and Rita and family".......probably just another coincidence, but Lizzie's son Stanley Robinson would have been William Collumbell's cousin..........Del.
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Been to local library this morning......have established that Charles Robinson was still at No.9 Brownlow Street in 1912/13......in 1914/15 he has gone, and someone else is living there.....this is from the parliamentary list of voters for the Grantham area......interestingly Lizzie is not mentioned, although I did not have time to check if it just gave the head of the house at a particular address...... I wonder where he went ?.......... Del.
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Have you checked trade directories for Charles as he was a Baker :-\
I notice that on the newspaper cutting you posted Mrs Robinson (without Mr Robinson) was mentioned twice :)
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Trade directories are on my list of things to check.......I did wonder if he had been called up (in 1914 he would have been 40 years old) also, would being a baker have been a "reserved occupation"?.....I think that is the correct term for someone in the service industry, bakers, butchers, agricultural workers and miners etc........ Del.
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...interestingly Lizzie is not mentioned,
Not surprising, women did not have the vote until 1918. :-\
Re call-up for him ... Conscription was introduced in January 1916, targeting single men aged 18-41. Within a few months World War 1 conscription was rolled out for married men. http://ww1facts.net/people/conscription/
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Geoff, That would explain Lizzie not being registered as eligible to vote then......I hadn't realised that, thank you...............Del.
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Have you tried using the British Newspaper Archive on line? Might be worth checking.
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Yes, have tried newspaper archives, along with all the other lines of enquiry......wills, military, census....etc...etc......it was always going to be hard to find them, because there is no indication as to where they went......there are quite a few possibilities for deaths of Charles, Lizzie and Stanley Robinson's.....but proving that it is the right people is turning out to be very difficult........ Del.
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After much trawling through newspaper archives, it would now appear that the Stanley, Olive and Rita Robinson mentioned at Alice Ayto's funeral were not relatives of her's......they just happened to live at Barrowby Vale, and had a son, Kelvin Stanley Robinson, who was killed in the 1940's when he was hit by a lorry whilst getting off a school bus, at Allington Lane end, Barrowby Vale........so, the question remains, what happened to the Stanley, son of Charles and Lizzie Robinson ?
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Have you tried searching the 1939 register :-\
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Yes, Had a look at it yesterday, no clues as to where Stanley was......of course he may have been dead by then......or if he is on the register, then no way of knowing if it is the right Stanley Robinson.
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You can check by birth date, do you have his birth certificate
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No.......but from the 1911 census I know that he was born in 1902/03 at Grantham, Lincolnshire........I must add that I am taking advantage of FindMyPast's free weekend....... but the 1939 register is not included in this.
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After much trawling through newspaper archives, it would now appear that the Stanley, Olive and Rita Robinson mentioned at Alice Ayto's funeral were not relatives of her's......they just happened to live at Barrowby Vale, and had a son, Kelvin Stanley Robinson, who was killed in the 1940's when he was hit by a lorry whilst getting off a school bus, at Allington Lane end, Barrowby Vale........so, the question remains, what happened to the Stanley, son of Charles and Lizzie Robinson ?
Could this Stanley not still be yours?
This would seem to be the marriage
Basford, Nottingham December quarter 1930 vol 7v pg 612
Stanley Robinson and Eveline O Denham
Or has that already been checked?
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Thanks for that, What concerns me is the fact that there were several Stanley Robinson's born in Nottingham and the surrounding area around the early 1900's......I will look into this one, although Stanley was born at Grantham, Nottingham is only 24/25 miles away, so it is a possibility.......the problem is knowing that I have the right Stanley......I was always told that it easier to go back than forward.........how true !!
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No it's not them.....Eveline Olive Denham was born Basford Nottingham in 1910...... her husband Stanley was born Normanton near Bottesford in 1909........think that they are the parents of the Kelvin Stanley Robinson that was killed in the accident in 1946.........but NOT the Stanley that I am looking for.
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Oh dear! I thought he might be the right one as they seemed to be so close to the family!
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I have not gone back through your posts but could fit with a December qtr 1902 birth reg in Grantham.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCP-RD7G
1939 has him in Scunthorpe area with a Mary Robinson & one other
I think he is possibly the one who married Mary Selby in 1936 - daughter bn 1938 also showing in 1939
If not then it's another one eliminated ;D
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Thank You........now that looks very interesting........I shall look into it.
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I was quite hopeful about this one, but it looks like the Stanley Robinson that married Mary Selby was born 1905 in Shropshire, so again not the right Stanley........he was born 1902 at Grantham.
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The Stanley that I just gave you had a birth date of 11 Sep 1902 as the death notice gave. I used this date to search the 1939 and it came up with Stanley, Mary & one other. Having done a further search using free indexes it also came up with a Janet which would match the daughter of that couple. :-\
The only Stanley that I can see on BMD for a 1905 Shropshire birth is Stanley Weaver Robinson born March qtr 1905. According to his death he was born 6 December 1904 and died Scunthorpe.
The 1939 has him with a Violet Robinson & 3 others. He married Violet Leech in Glanford B in 1926
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There are a couple of trees on Ancestry, that give the Stanley that married Mary Selby as being born 1905, Shropshire.......of course these could be wrong, they very often are.
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Rosie that looks very promising.
Del 80,
I saw the trees and thought they must be correct as the information re deaths etc is quite recent.
However,the information re the daughter is conflicting. The tree has a death date, unverified, of 1996.
There is a death announcement online for 2004.
Might be worth taking a closer look.
Heywood
Heywood
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Yes, It is all very confusing......we know that ''our'' Stanley was born in the last quarter of 1902 at Grantham, to parents Charles Robinson and Lizzie Herd.....they are on the 1911 census, living at 9 Brownlow Street, Grantham, after that date there is no sign of Stanley......did he move away to Scunthorpe, and marry there ?.....if he was still alive in 1923 then he would have been 21 years of age......I would expect to find a marriage for him around that date, or afterwards, if indeed he married at all.....I need to be fairly sure that we have the right person before sending for his marriage certificate...........Del.
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The alternative is to buy his birth certificate then you will know his date of birth and can check the 1939. It may also help with his death registration
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Yes, I think that You are right, it is time to send for his birth certificate......if it leads to a death date and place for him, then it might just lead to a death date and place for his mother Lizzie, the original object of this thread, and that would be marvellous !!.........Del.
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Sounds great!
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That's it......sent for Stanley Robinson's birth certificate, should get it on or about the 29 th.......here's hoping that it leads somewhere........Del.
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I hope you are successful!
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Thank You, I have been looking for these people for about five years now.....they are not direct ancestors of mine, but are part of my Ayto family, so there is a connection.......I went off on a tangent and ran into a brickwall........hopefully this will resolve it.....I know that all it will tell me is his exact date of birth, but hopefully that will lead to other things.........Del.
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Have today received the birth certificate for Stanley Robinson......22nd September 1902, I wonder if some kind person could feed that into the 1939 register....my subscription is with Ancestry, so cannot access the register on FindMyPast........at the moment I can only see one death coming up for a Stanley Robinson born on that date....December 1969 at Coventry......interestingly his mother's maiden name is spelt HEARD.......Del.
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You can do a free search on FindMyPast. The 1939 register is not part of a subscription so anyone will have to pay to look at the full details
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/1939-register?_ga=1.216809174.1157787945.1409382392
The only Stanley Robinson I am seeing in 1939 with that information is the Coventry one with a Beatrice N Robinson
Rosie
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Marriage Sep qtr 1929
Beatrice N Amos
Stanley Robinson (spouse Amos)
Coventry 6d 1996
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Rosie, Thank You for that, yes, just seen it.......I wonder if it is him ?........looking into it now.......Del
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I wonder if this Lizzie :-\
Deaths Mar qtr 1954
Lizzie Robinson age 75
Coventry 9c 886
There is an entry for that record on 1939, appears to be living alone
Lizzie Robinson - 1878- Coventry C.B. -Warwickshire
Possibly Charles :-\
Death Jun qtr 1938
Charles Robinson age 65
Coventry 6d 762
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The one for Charles fits......but the one for Lizzie is slightly out, she was born in 1876.....Del.
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I am not sure about that death for Lizzie
Probate to Eric Ernest Robinson (electrical engineer) Phyllis May Franklin (widow) and Doris Irena Forrester (wife of Kenneth Charles Forrester ) maiden name Robinson
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Don't think that is her. There is a probate record for that Lizzie.
Sorry Rosie!
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Don't think that is her. There is a probate record for that Lizzie.
Sorry Rosie!
I noticed the probate after. It is probably not Charles either. ;D
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No problem, at least it has given me something to go on.....there are a couple of connections to that part of the world......Lizzies younger half brother Ernest Ayto was a policeman in Birmingham, he died there......and Charles younger sister Eve and her Barnes family lived in Warwickshire, and had several children born at Coventry...........Del
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It looks like Beatrice N Amos is Beatrice Nellie, born 1902 in Warwickshire, married 1929 at Coventry, died 1978 West Midlands........there are a possible four children from the marriage, born in the right time frame.......there is also a tree on Ancestry, which has her husband as Stanley Robinson....unfortunately there are no details for him.............is it him I wonder ?.......Del.
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I am assuming, wrongly I know, that if there is no other death showing for a Stanley Robinson, with a birth date of 22nd September 1902, then we have the right man.......the question is, do I add the information to our tree ?......or do I send for his marriage certificate ? which will tell me who his father was ........I can't see any other way of proving that it is him........Del.
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I would send for the marriage certificate if you really want proof but I would say that the chances of it being another Stanley Robinson with the same birth date are very slim. There are only five Stanley Robinsons with no other names registered around the time of his birth.
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Yes, I am 99.9% sure that it is him......I think eventually I shall send for that marriage certificate for final clarification.......in the meantime I have a thread going on the Warwickshire board......you never know, someone may pick up on it, and give us that final piece of information to confirm that we have the right person.......Del.
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I'm sure it must be the same man - you said you have his birth certificate and that gives the exact same date of birth as the man who died in Coventry. We know that the Coventry one was married to Beatrice and they have the same last address on probate records. Also the 1939 register confirms the date of birth.
Link to Warwick thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=740295.0
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Thanks for that groom, I should have posted the link myself..........incidentally, depending on when you where last here, Grantham has changed over the years, and not for the better.......Brownlow St. is now part of a hideous one way system, leaving the Premier Court old people's complex stuck in the middle of continuous traffic........progress I guess........Del.
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Stanley Robinson's mother, Lizzie, was born at Grantham in 1876.......for some reason I have her birth day as 13th of December, not sure how I got this, anyway, I have tried feeding this into the 1939 register and it won't accept it, only the year........any help on this appreciated.........Del.
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Are you clicking on Advanced Search?
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Yes, just done that, thanks........unfortunately it says no results.......I guess this means that either the birth date is wrong..........or she was dead by 1939 ?.........Del.
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There is a Lizzie Robinson in Kempston, Bedfordshire.......with a Charles, and one other person......her birth year is given as 1875 though......but it has got me thinking........Del.
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1901 has a Charles and Lizzie Robinson in Kempston - both born c 1875 :(
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Yes, just had a look........both born Bedfordshire.......so not the Charles and Lizzie we are looking for.........Del.