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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rpoole on Tuesday 19 May 15 05:31 BST (UK)
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It is some years since I last researched this line so thought it was worth another go.
I am seeking any info on my G G G Grandfather Samuel Pool/Poole who married Mary Brown 18 Oct 1802 in USL. They had 2 sons, Thomas (my gggrandfather) convict to Tasmania on "Barossa" 1842, and Robert who had family in Gls. A cousin Paul Edwards has researched Robert's line and we have most of that family. What I need is any details on Samuels birth (abt 1779) and who his parents were. Also who Thomas married before being transported (believed to be Sarah) and who their child was. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Aussie Bob
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G'day Bob,
Firstly, Thomas and Robert POOL were NOT brothers, but probably 1st cousins. Please see my findings below.
William POOLE married Hester FREEMAN at St Leonard, 4th November 1797, by Licence.
Thomas POOL, son of William & Hester POOL, christened at St Leonard, May 1st, 1800.
The marriage of Samuel POOL & Mary BROWN are all as shown in your post above.
Robert, son of Samuel & Mary POOL, christened at St Leonard, July 20th, 1806.
I checked the St Leonard's baptism records, 1777-1781, but found NO trace of Samuel.
Victor
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Hi Bob, me again. I have subsequently found, from my own resources, 2 marriages which must belong to your POOL/E family.
Source: Gloucestershire Family History Society (GFHS)
John POOL married Mary RODWAY at St Leonard, February 24th, 1772, by Licence.
John POOL married Esther FRANKIS at St Leonard, December 8th, 1796, by Licence.
Victor
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Hi Bob,
Source: GFHS, St Leonard, Burials:-
31/07/1831, Mary POOL, aged 66
04/04/1832, Samuel POOL, aged 53
20/11/1832, Jane POOL, infant
19/07/1840, William POOLE, aged 1
28/08/1843, Ruth POOLE, aged 9 days
24/08/1848, Susanna POOLE, aged 46
10/10/1854, Charles POOLE, aged 51
21/03/1855, William POOLE, aged 59
Victor
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Hi Victor, Many thanks for your kind responses. I have long suspected the Thomas Pool/Poole bap 1800 to William and Hester was a cousin of both Robert and Thomas bap 1806 & 1803 to Samuel & Mary Pool. My Thomas was bap 30 June 1803 & his parents were Samuel & Mary. This is from the USL Parish Records & Bishops Transcripts. So Robert & Thomas were definitely brothers.
I have been informed that there are no Baptisms & death Parish Records for the period 1774 - 1788 only Bishops transcripts. I suspect that John Pool and Mary Rodway were the parents of both William & Samuel Pool (The John Pool & Esther Frankis marriage was too late for it to have been them) but of course I am not able to substantiate it. This is where my brick wall is holding firm. :-\ Cheers, Aussie Bob
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Hi Bob,
I'd like to help you further, but need direction from you as I can't fully understand your various trees. I shall be visiting the Archives next Saturday, so please post any further requests by Friday.
Victor
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Hi Victor
My tree, as I know it:
Samuel Pool born Abt 1779 buried 4 Apr 1832 USL, wed Mary Brown 18 Oct 1802 USL.
Known children are:
1. Thomas Poole bap 30 June 1803 USL wed Sarah ? transported for crimes to Tasmania 1842, Thomas and Sarah had one child ?. I have his convict records and Tasmanian families.
2. Robert Poole bap 20 July 1806 USL (I have all his later details)
I can only guess that John Pool & Mary Rodway are Samuel's parents, and this what I need established. Any help in determining either Samuel Pool or Mary Brown's ancestors would be much appreciated. I got Thomas Poole's wife Sarah, and the fact they had a child, from Thomas' convict records. Cheers, Bob
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Hi Bob,
I'm just having a look at your last post and am somewhat confused?
1. Thomas POOL is the son of William & Sarah.
2. Robert POOL is the son of Samuel & Mary.
This I posted above on the 19th May. I note that you claim the BTs show Thomas & Robert as brothers, so I will personally check this tomorrow, plus see what else I can find.
Victor
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No, your post on the 19th said Thomas was the son of William and Hester, not William and Sarah.
However the confusion lies in the fact that there were 2 Thomas Pool's:
1. Thomas Pool baptized 1800 to William Pool and Hester (Freeman)
2. Thomas Pool baptized 1803 to Samuel Pool and Mary (Brown)
I suspect they were cousins.
Best of luck at the Archives, a breakthrough would be great.
Cheers, Bob
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Hi Bob,
To avoid any further confusion on my behalf I thought the best plan of attack was to check the BTs, but as these are only available on film I thought the digitalised records on A******y was the best place to start, so I list below all the BROWN/POOL/E entries that I found. Some entries were undecipherable.
USL 1736-1783, Images 1-37
Image 10, November 2, 1760, Robert s/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN bap.
Image 11, March 6, 1762, Hannah d/o Thomas & Mary BROWN bap.
Image 13, July 9, 1769, John s/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN bap.
Image 14, July 31, 1774, George s/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN bap.
Image 26, December 10, 1749, Mrs Ann BROWN, Widow, bur.
Image 26, November 20, 1751, Mary BROWN, Widow, bur.
Image 27, October 13, 1754, Robert BROWN bur.
Image 27, January 20, 1757, William BROWN of Witcombe, bur.
Image 28, June 4, 1759, Thomas s/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN, bur.
This is Volume 1. I'll get back to you later with Volume 2.
Victor
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Hi Bob,
USL 1742-1798 Images 1-46
Image 10, October 22, 1758, Elizabeth d/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN, bap.
Image 10, January 20, 1760, Thomas s/o Thomas & Mary BROWN, bap.
Image 11, March 6, 1763, Hannah, d/o Thomas & Mary BROWN, bap.
Image 14, July 31, 1774, George, s/o Robert & Elizabeth BROWN, bap.
Image 24, June 28, 1785, James, s/o Hannah BROWN, bap.
Image 30, November 20, 1751, Mary BROWN bur.
Image 36, November 18, 1789, John POOL, bur.
Image 37, February 7, 1790, Elizabeth, d/o John & Sarah BROWN, bap.
Image 38, March 19, 1792, Elizabeth d/o Mary POOL, base born, bap.
Image 39, November 23, 1794, Mary BROWN d/o Thomas & Ann BROWN, bap.
Image 40, January 8, 1796, Susannah, d/o Thomas & Mary BROWN, bap.
Image 40, December 18, 1797, James s/0 Thomas & Sarah BROWN, bap.
Image 41, June 15, 1797, Robert BROWN, bur.
Image 41, February 4, 1798, William, s/o William & Esther POOLE, bap.
Image 41, February 19, 1798, Mary, d/o John & Esther POOLE, bap.
Image 41, June 24, 1798, John, s/o John & Esther POOLE, bap.
That takes care of Volume 2. Still outstanding is Volume 3, Marriages & Banns, Images 1-56, 1754-1781. I have spent 2 hours this morning assembling this data and did not have the time to transcribe Volume 3. I'll re-commence next Tuesday.
Victor
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Wow, you have been busy. Apparently it is the period from 1774 to 1783 that there are no entries by the Minister for baptisms and burials. This means there is very little chance of connecting either Samuel Pool or Mary Brown to parents. The only chance may be other records such as Wills.
Thanks for your help, it is very kind of you.
Cheers, Bob
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Hi Bob,
According to the Glos Archives (GA) PRs, the BTs for USL are available on film, and include the period 1771-1783.
So, after completing Volume 3, Marriages & Banns USL, I'll transcribe what I find BROWN/POOL.
I like a challenge.
Victor
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Hi Bob,
I've just had another thought. The POOL/E surname has, so far, not existed in USL before 1792. The surrounding parishes are Matson, Painswick, Whaddon, Barnwood & Hucclecote.
I am unable to take on where the POOL/E family came from, but you can access the PRs online at A******y.
Victor
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No, there were Pool/e's in USL before then. John Pool married Mary Rodway in 1772 and William Poole married Ann Harris in 1748. Also William Pool, son of John and Mary was baptized 13 Oct 1775 in USL ( not sure where that came from but the others are on A******Y
Cheers, Bob
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Hi Victor,
My source for William Pool's baptism to John & Mary Pool 13 Oct 1775 at USL, is the LDS Index Batch No C04934-1. Where they got this from is a mystery given there were supposedly no entries for baptisms and burials in USL from 1774 to 1783. ??? Just another of those little mysteries that perplex us Geni's
Cheers, Bob
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Hi Bob,
USL Marriages & Banns, Volume 3, 1754-1781
Image 13 - William BROWN of the parish of St Mary de Lode, (Gloucester), married Anne HALLING, of this parish, 27th November 1757.
Image 14 - Thomas POOL and Mary WATHAM, of this parish, married 18th February 1759, by Banns.
Image 31 - John POOL & Mary RODWAY, both of this parish, married 24th February 1772, by Licence, both signed in the presence of Charles WELLS & John JOANS.
Image 45 - Banns of marriage between William WHITTLE and Ann BROWN, both of this parish, were published 10, 17 & 24 October (?September) 1779 and married 3 October 1779. William signed and Ann 'X' in the presence of Thomas HIGGS and Richard BROWNUP.
Victor
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USL Marriages & Banns, Volume 4, 1781-1812
Image 20 - William NASH & Hannah BROWN, both of this parish, married by Banns 28th May 1787. William & Hannah signed 'X' in the presence of Richard BURRUP (a Church official) & James MILTON.
Image 21 to 24 - Nothing.
I left off there as this is beyond the date you were interested in.
Victor
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Well done Victor, and many thanks. I live in hope that some day Samuel's birth/baptism will crop up somewhere. I will keep searching as new material seems to emerge with time.
Cheers,
Bob
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Hi Bob,
I finally got round to the USL BTs and list my findings below.
Source: Glos Archives (GA) MF 620, USL 1771-1783
1771-1774 NO entries
19/02/1775, William, base born child of Ann BROWN bap.
13/10/1775, William s/o John & Mary POOL bap.
30/01/1775, William s/o Thomas & Mary BROWN bap.
1776 NO entries
1777 Almost unreadable
1778 NO entries
22/10/1779, William WHITALL & Ann BROWN married by Banns.
27/09/1779, Elizabeth, wife of Robert BROWN, bur.
1780-1783 NO entries
I think that this now takes care of your lookup request.
The following link may be useful:-
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=58232&p=0
Good hunting!
Victor
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Many thanks Victor. You have done well. It is a shame the records I need do not seem to have been entered. Strange why William Pool, son of John and Mary, was baptized twice. Or at least 2 entries for his baptism on different dates. The unreadable entry in 1777 is also a puzzle, as there were not supposed to have been any entries for that year (Nor for 1775 for that matter) and I believe the BT's are taken from the church entries. But then again, the life of a Genie is full of mysteries :)
Cheers, Bob
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Hi Bob,
I also forgot to mention that I checked the Gloucestershire Wills for USL but found NO POOL/E wills.
Good hunting!
Victor
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Thanks
That about exhausts all avenues. I will mark the topic as completed.
Cheers, Bob
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Bob
Hope all is well. This is your very distant cousin James in Singapore. I will also keep looking into the Samuel family history. You are right Robert and Thomas were brothers, we both have the same Baptism records.
1. Thomas Pool and Sarah. I have struggled to find a marriage record for them and any baptism of the child that I believe they had. It is possible that Thomas was not in Upton St Leonards as he was quite 'busy' and there are plenty of marriage records of a Thomas to a Sarah across Glos including Bristol.
2. Mary Brown there are possible matches for Mary Brown in Bisley and Stround around the 1779/1780 mark which are possible - being only several miles from USL. Did you find the death / burial record for Mary (as Pool?) that would help to narrow the date of birth.
3. As for Samuel - like you we keep on looking. Though again there are bap records in stroud but not with very suitable dates.
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Bob
I have been doing my own line of research on Samuel for a while but have been holding off on it, but let me share my thoughts and see what you think:
1. The Pool / Poole family are particularly concentrated in Stroud which is about 7 miles from USL.
2. I believe that it is possible Samuel was born in Stroud to 22 Mar 1776 to Samuel and Hannah. With the father's name of Samuel it is hopeful, plus 1776 isnt too far off 1779 (which is the DOB given by the burial record - at a time when DOB are notoriously vague).
3. His marriage was witnesses by William Frankis (1802)
4. I believe the Samuel also had a brother John (also born in Stroud to Samuel and Hannah bap 1782). I also believe that he also went to USL and married Ester Frankis in 1796 - who is the sister of William Frankis.
5. Indeed, there are many records that link the Pool and Frankis family including baptism / wedding records and electoral rolls of 1811.
Just a thought...
Also there are numerous Pools in Stroud which is about 7 miles from USL.
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From the Forest of Dean Family History records:
Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1747-1837 and Marriage Bonds
just a brief outline, full transcripts on their website
15 February 1772
John POOL aged 21, (c1751) Batchelor, Yeoman, residence: Upton St Leonards
Mary RODWAY aged 21, (c1751) Spinster, residence: Upton St Leonards
marriage by Licence, to marry at Upton St Leonards
29 February 1796
John POOL aged 22, (c1774) Batchelor, Yeoman, residence: Upton St Leonards
Esther FRANKIS aged 21 (c1775) Spinster, residence: Upton St Leonards
marriage by Licence, to marry at Upton St Leonards
21 October 1797
William POOLE aged 21 (c1776) Batchelor, Labourer, residence: Upton St Leonards
Hester FREEMAN aged 21 (c1776) Spinster, residence: Upton St Leonards
marriage by Licence, to marry at Upton Saint Leonards
25 July 1798
William SOULE aged 30 (c1768) Batchelor, Yeoman, residence: Parish of Handley Castle in the County of Worcester
Mary POOLE aged 30 (c1768) Widow residence: Upton St Leonards
marriage by Licence, to marry in the Parish Church of Upton St Leonards
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?
Gloucestershire Baptism Index Cd
Gloucestershire St Mary de Lobe, Barton St Mary
Eliza POOLE - 15 July 1827 - parents: Thomas (labourer) & Sarah
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Many thanks to James and Capetown. I have come to the conclusion that the most likely scenario is that John Pool and Mary Rodway are the parents of Samuel Pool, my GGG Grandfather, who married Mary Brown. I don't have Mary's death, so cannot verify her birth date.
It is unfortunate that there were no baptism's or burials recorded in the Upton St Leonards Church Register from 1774 to 1783.
The "Eliza" born to Thomas and Sarah Poole, that Capetown posted, is a chance of being my GG Grandfather, Thomas Poole's child mentioned on his Convict Indent.
Having said all this, there is still a chance that Samuel Pool and Ann/Hannah Churches nee Berry may be my Samuels parents. They are certainly most likely related at the very least.
Again, Thanks, these posts are very helpful. I have found Rootschat to be a great asset. Always people more than willing to assist.
Kind regards and Season's greetings :D
Aussie Bob
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Think might be an answer?
!!!!!
Looking at Gloucestershirebdm
Eliza POOLE married Charles PUGH - St Leonard - 1844
Looking at The Church of Latter Day Saints 1851 census
Saint Nicholas, Gloucestershire, Westgate Street
Charles PUGH - 34, born Minsterworth, Gloucestershire **
Eliza PUGH - 25 - born Upton St Leonard, Glos
Louisa PARTRIDGE, Servant, 16 - born Standish, Gloucestershire
Esther FRANKIS - Visitor, 14 - born Burford, Oxfordshire
** Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD after 1813
Charles PUGH christened at Minsterworth St Peters - 13 August 1815, parents: William (labourer)
and Mary - sibling Thomas christened 24 September 1820
as in previous reply: John POOL married Esther FRANKIS - 29 November 1796
1861 Census, Ashleworth
Eliza PUGH - aged 37 - : relationship to Head of Household : Wife to daughter
1871 Census, Upton St Leonard
Charles PUGH - 54, born Minsterworth (master baker)
Eliza PUGH - 49 - born Upton, Gloucestershire
William PUGH - Boarder - 4 - born Hartpury, Gloucestershire
1881 Census, Minsterworth, Gloucestershire (not sure about this one??)
Mary A PUGH - 58 - born Stanley St Leonard, Glos
Charles PUGH - son - 28 born Minsterworth
Thomas PUGH - 21 - born Minsterworth
William PUGH - 14 - born Minsterworth
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?
1841 census, Stonehouse, Glos
William HILLIER,
Ann HILLIER
Elizabeth HILLIER
Eliza POOLE - 13
? Gloucesteshire Marriage Index CD
William HULBERT married Ann FRANKIS at Upton Saint Leonard : 28 May 1800
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?
CLDS : Esther FRANKS baptised 26 July 1837, Fulbrook, Oxford, parents: Edward & Elizabeth FRANKS
baptised at Painswick, Gloucestershire, 6 February 1810 - Edward FRANKIS, parents: William & Esther
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Thanks Capetown, Yes, I think that confirms that Thomas Poole's daughter was Eliza. I will relook at my research when I get the chance and see if any other details I have fall into place.
Cheers
Aussie Bob
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By looking at the National Archives A2A
Held at Gloucestershire Archives
Title: John RODWAY v Mary POOLE adultery
Reference: GDR/B4/2721
Date: 1792
Held by: Gloucestershire Archives, not available at The National Archives
also
D1846/T3
House and estate, part of the manor of Kings Barton, called Nelmes (1794) copy will of John POOL of Upton St Leonards (1809), messuage and lands called The Orchard, Hollins, and Wardings, etc etc.
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Reference: IR 26/347/17
Date: 31 January 1810
IR Records of Boards of Stamps, Taxes, Excise, etc
Date of the Probate and Sum Sworn: January 31st 1810, under 300£ (?)
Date and Description of Testator or Testatrix: John POOL late of Upton St Leonards
Name and Place of Abode of Executor or Executrix:
William FRANKIS of Upton St Leonards, Charles SMITH of Churchdown
Particulars of the several specific legacies, bequests in trust, and of the residue:
The whole ... Executors upon trust to the .... same and pay 400£ to Daurs Mary & Eliza in equal shares to divide the residue to his Sons John & Charles at their respective ages of 21.
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??
There is a marriage at Gloucestershire St Mary de Lobe 28 August 1822
Charles POOL - Hannah Maria HARRISON (Fod records just has Maria HARRISON)
Gloucestershire Baptism Index
Kings Stanley St George - parents: Charles (Butcher) & Hannah Maria POOL
Hannah Maria - 19 October 1823, residence: Stream
Beatta - 22 May 1825 - Harmers Streetm
Esther - 26 August 1827 - Middle Yard
Elizabeth - 22 August 1829 - ditto
Charles - 22 August 1830
Sarah Ann - 6 January 1833 - Harmer Stream
1841Census, King Stanley
POOL
Charles - 47-51
Hannah - 52-56
Hannah - 17-21
Beata - 16-20
Esther - 14
Elizth - 12
Charles - 10
Sarah - 8
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Again, many thanks Capetown. I will look at all this great info when I get the chance. Sorry to be so late responding, but have been away up "the bush".
John Rodway and Mary Poole ? .....must be related to my John Poole and Mary Rodway.
Cheers, Aussie Bob