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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: jbop41 on Friday 08 July 05 11:42 BST (UK)
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Anyone have these SMITH's in their tree?
WILLIAM SMITH was born Abt. 1779 in Rollesby, Norfolk, England, and died Aft. 1851. He married MARTHA BROWN 11 Oct 1814 in Rollesby, Norfolk, England. She died Bef. 1851.
Children of WILLIAM SMITH and MARTHA BROWN are:
i. WILLIAM SMITH, b. Abt. 1815, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
ii. MARTHA BROWN SMITH, b. Abt. 1817, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
iii. WILLIAM SMITH, b. Abt. 1819, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
iv. JANE SMITH, b. Abt. 1821, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
vi. MARY ANN SMITH, b. Abt. 1826, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
vii. JAMES SMITH, b. Abt. 1828, Rollesby, Norfolk, England; d. Bet. 1861 - 1865.
viii. ROBERT SMITH, b. Abt. 1832, Rollesby, Norfolk, England.
JAMES SMITH was born Abt. 1828 in Rollesby, Norfolk, England, and died Bet. 1861 - 1865. He married SARAH CULLINGWORTH 24 Jun 1849 in The Parish Church, Upper Chelsea, Middlesex, England, daughter of WILLIAM CULLINGWORTH and ANNE BOOTH. She was born Abt. 1820 in Aberford, Yorkshire, England, and died Aft. 1891.
Children of JAMES SMITH and SARAH CULLINGWORTH are:
i. SARAH ANN SMITH, b. 09 Nov 1849, 19 Somerset Street, Aldgate, East London, England.
ii. WILLIAM SMITH, b. 26 Feb 1852, Westminster, London, Middlesex, England; d. 19 Jun 1929.
iii. HARRIET MARY SMITH, b. 06 May 1857, St Olave, Southwark, Surrey, England; m. JOSEPH GRANT, Abt. 1881; b. Abt. 1856, Bermondsey, Surrey, England.
iv. JANE LOUISA SMITH, b. 01 Dec 1858, St Olave, Southwark, Surrey, England; d. 1900.
v. CHARLES JAMES SMITH, b. 14 Jan 1861, St Olave, Southwark, Surrey, England; d. Aft. 1902.
WILLIAM SMITH was born 26 Feb 1852 in Westminster, London, Middlesex, England, and died 19 Jun 1929. He married CAROLINE FANNY MOWLE 28 Mar 1874 in St Johns, Waterloo Road, London, England, daughter of JOHN MOWLL and FRANCES PHILPOTT. She was born 11 Oct 1850 in Strond Street, Dover, Kent, England, and died 09 Jan 1931 in Camberwell, Surrey, England.
Children of WILLIAM SMITH and CAROLINE MOWLE are:
i. MAUD MARY4 SMITH, b. 06 Jun 1876, Bermondsey, London, England.
ii. ETHEL FLORENCE SMITH, b. 18 Oct 1877, Bermondsey, London, England; d. Abt. 1959, Cane Hill Hospital, Nunhead, Surrey, England.
iii. EVELYN BEATRICE SMITH, b. 06 Mar 1879, 174 Lynton Road, Bermondsey, Surrey, England; d. 24 Feb 1949, St Giles Hospital, Camberwell, England.
iv. MABEL BLANCHE SMITH, b. 15 Dec 1880, Bermondsey, Surrey, England; d. 02 Dec 1927.
v. RUTH CLARA SMITH, b. 07 Apr 1882, Bermondsey, London, England.
vi. GRACE EDITH SMITH, b. 19 Apr 1884, Camberwell, Surrey, England.
vii. WILLIAM CULLINGWORTH SMITH, b. 05 Aug 1886, Camberwell, Surrey, England; d. 22 Apr 1918, Netley Hospital, Southampton, England.
viii. HILDA MARION SMITH, b. 28 Mar 1888, Camberwell, Surrey, England.
ix. CHARLES HENRY SMITH, b. 26 Jun 1892, Camberwell, Surrey, England; d. 16 Feb 1949.
x. ROBERT CECIL SMITH, b. 31 Aug 1894, 38 Amott Road, Goose Green, Camberwell, Surrey; d. 01 Feb 1980, Ashford, Kent, England.
If so then would like to hear from you.
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These Smith family details have ben very useful to me as I'm currently researching the family of Joseph Cullingworth, brother of the Sarah Cullingworth who married James Smith. One of James and Sarah's grandchildren Amy Cullingworth Shaw was in the household of Joseph's 'widow' in the 1911 census as 'niece'. This was the breakthrough that I needed to positively identify which William and Ann were Joseph's parents. So discovering that he had a sister Sarah meant that everything fell into place! I even had James and Sarah's marriage certificate details on my website, not knowing she was connected to Joseph! I have not been able to update the website for several years as I no longer have the program with which I created it, so it had been on there a long time!
So many thanks for posting the Smith family details! I had just applied for a copy of William Cullingworth Smith's birth certificate when I found your post yesterday, such is life!
I would be grateful if you could please contact me via my website www.cullingworth.name so we can compare notes. :)
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I'm hoping the Charles James SMITH b: 1861 St Olave, Southwark, Surrey son of James and Sarah, may be the man I am looking for. The Charles I am looking for married Albertina Britcliffe in 1895 in London City, any connection?
Jennifer
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Hello
My Great Grandfather, Joseph Grant:
Joseph Grant
1856 – 1919 • LBBY-L2S
is likely the husband of Harriet Mary Smith 1857-1925 but I am still trying to find their marriage - about 1880 - in any official record. If correct, Harriet would be the mother of my Grandfather, William Joseph Grant 1881-1961. Since Grant and Smith are such common names I would like to confirm the ID. Any info would be appreciated.
Brian Thompson
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Welcome to rootschat
If correct, Harriet would be the mother of my Grandfather, William Joseph Grant 1881-1961.
Is this the William Joseph Grant you mean born 1883
GRANT, WILLIAM JOSEPH mmn SMITH
1883 Sept Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 803
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Possible marriage
Joseph Grant and Harriet Mary Smith (March quarter ) 1881 1a pg 831
The marriage locator puts this at St Marylebone church.
Looks like details could be on Ancestry
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Hi
It's the William Joseph Smith born in 1881 - he emigrated to Canada in 1907. He then married Annie Lucy Randall. Our family record indicates his mother was Harriet Smith - no middle name. So we wonder if she was Harriet Mary Smith
Brian Thompson
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You begin by stating William Joseph Grant 1881-1961 and your last posting states he was 'the William Joseph Smith born 1881 (there were 11 of them born that year and none were the illeg. child of a mother whose maiden name was Smith). The son of Joseph Grant and Harriet Mary Smith who was indeed a William Joseph Grant was born 1883 as has already been posted.
Under what name did your man arrive, what date, what ship and where did he settle?
I cannot see a likely candidate agewise on 1907 arrivals in Canada or departures from England under either Grant or Smith hence clarification of his details.
Annette
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Excuse my typo - he was William Joseph Grant and our family record by one of my cousins indicates his birth date of 1881. This is also the date on the 1911 Canada Census record for Will (as he was called by the family).
Will and Lucy went by ship to Canada and were married in May 1907 in Montreal. Our records indicate Will's parents, Joseph (1856-1919) and Harriet Smith (1857-1925), had four children, George (sea captain) Amy, Doris and William. Will and Lucy had four kids. My mom, Vera, was one of them.
So it is possible the two Williams might be different people. I do have pictures of him but never met him since he left my grandmother and went to Montreal in the 1920's.
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The 1911 census states that WJGrant arrived 1905 - this appears to be the case. He arrived at St. John, New Brunswick on 11/3/1905 aged 22 (i.e. bc.1883) occupation Traveller. He is shown as a Commercial Traveller in 1911 which fits.
The census also shows that he was born in the month of July (although, as you say, year given as 1881).
The William Joseph Grant, son of Joseph & Harriett Mary (nee Smith) was indeed born in July:
Whilst birth registered as William Joseph Grant in Sept.qtr.1883 his baptism was as follows:
William Joseph Cullingworth Grant, born 27 July 1883, baptised 9 September 1883 St. Saviour, Southwark, son of Joseph and Harriett Mary. Abode East Dulwich, and Joseph was a Commercial Clerk.
So, from his arrival in Canada aged 22, and birth details, it does indeed appear that your man was born in July (27th) 1883 (not 1881), son of Joseph Grant and Harriett Mary (nee Smith).
Annette
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Hi Annette
Thank you for your research into William. Sorry to be so long in replying but I have been scouring the web looking for decendents of Harriet Mary Smith without any success. I found her and parents (James and Sarah) and four siblings but no record of her children. I am dependent on the Mormon Church data on the Family Search website.
In the family history prepared by my cousin, Don, there is scant info on her - she was identified as just Harriet so I am contacting him for further detail. He did indicate that William had 3 siblings (Amy, Doris and George) but I can find no record of them.
If you have online record from another source I would love to know the link.
Brian Thompson
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My oh my, Brian - I have just read through 2 divorce petitions for Harriett Mary Grant against her husband Joseph Grant - the first was in 1893 (13 pages) - presumably not granted, the second on 17/5/1900 (43 pages) - whilst so much detail again I cannot see that a divorce was actually granted. (This was on Ancestry).
Each accuses the other of cruelty - according to her Joseph did not want children and when she was pregnant (6 times) he would prod her in her stomach and she subsequently had 2 miscarriages.
The 4 surviving children were said to have been born:
Amy Cullingworth Grant b.5/4/1882
William Joseph Cullingworth Grant b.27/7/1883
George Stanley Grant b.19/2/1889 - believe the year was actually 1890 not 1889.
Doris Muriel Grant born 23/4/1893
The two miscarriages supposedly occurred September 1884 and May 1988.
In 1891 Harriet M. Grant - married - is living on own means as a 'resident' in Earls Colne, Essex. Joseph Grant - married - living alone in Lambeth. Amy and William are boarders in Lewisham and baby George a boarder, nursechild, in Tottenham.
In 1901 Amy, George and Doris are boarders in Camberwell with a Florence Godfrey, Harriet is living alone in South Wimbledon, Surrey and Joseph is a boarder in Lambeth.
So your cousin correct - William did indeed have siblings Amy, George and Doris.
Annette
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Thank you so much Annette. Mystery solved.
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Hi Annette
Thank you again for your research. If you want further detail on William Grant I can provide information. Brian Thompson