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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: Viking666 on Monday 18 May 15 13:56 BST (UK)
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A small mystery whilst re-checking detail.
Jane was the youngest daughter of Michael Richards of Bod-Deiniol farm, Llanbabo. In the 1881 census she is shown living with her father and sisters at Bod-Deiniol, unmarried, with one child, Harriet Richards, (1876-1969).
At the marriage of her brother, William Emberson Richards, in 1876 there is a Jane Hughes in attendance.
In the 1891 census, (after the death of her father in 1883), she is shown at the farm as married to a Robert Hughes, (1853), of Llanwenllwyfo. He is shown as, "Head".
The child Harriet has, in the meantime, been passed to Jane's brother Robert at Llanrhyddlad and, in the 1891 census appears as his daughter, Harriet Richards, dress-maker, aged 15.
Does anyone have a marriage date for Jane and Robert. Be warned that Robert also had a daughter named Jane, (1880) married to an Owen Hughes of Holyhead in 1913.
Regards from Peter.
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No trace of a marriage for Jane in Anglesey but ROBERT RICHARDS, age 23 married ANN WILLIAMS, age 23 7 Oct 1870 LLANBABO, fathers Michael Richards & Thomas Williams.
Colin
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NorthWales BMD has Harriet Richards born 1876 mmn Williams.In the 1861 census Hannah
Williams is a servant in the Richards household.Is Ann the same person as Hannah(ages?)
Regards
Roger
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Hi Peter,
Harriet Richards was the daughter of Robert Richards and Ann Williams, according to her birth registration. Born 7 Feb 1876, Llaneugrad.
Regards,
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The head of the household at Bod-Deiniol in 1891 looks to me like Richard Hughes of Llanwenllwyfo - but I still can't find the marriage.
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Hi.
Yes, it looks as if Harriet was Robert and Ann's child. The 1881 for Bod-Daniel contains just Michael, Jane and Harriet. (grand-daughter) giving the impression that she is Jane's daughter. In the 1891 census for Bod-Daniel, Harriet has been replaced by her brother Michael, (1872).
Robert and Anne had 10 children and by 1881 already had 6 at their small farm of only 9 acres.
So the hunt for Jane and Robert Hughes' marriage continues.
Hi Roger. I don't have the 1861 for Bod-Deiniol or Parciau but I see that Ann was born in Llanbabo.
Regards, Peter
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You are probably correct with the name Richard for the 1891 but is the DoB 1853? Some of my docs are really bad copies and some were lost in numerous computer crashes. I shall start looking again for the marriage ... it will help having the correct name this time.
Regards, Peter.
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Richard Hughes is shown as 39 in 1891, so born approx. 1852.
Regards,
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FreeBMD has only one marriage between 1881 and 1891 between Richard Hughes and Jane Richards - Mar qtr 1886, Toxteth Park (Liverpool) 8b 391.
Regards
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That fits with the "years married" detail in the last census available.
Regards
Roger
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1853 must have been a bumper year for the birth of dozens of Richard Hughes in Anglesey. There are just as many named Jane Hughes too. Because there were sections of the Richards family living in Toxteth at around that marriage date of 1886, I will spend some time tomorrow trying to find out exactly who was there. The most likely family would be that of Robert Richards, Pharmacist, son of the Rev. John: he was in Liverpool with his family at that time. Richard Richards, Robert's son, had been living there for many years and was the same age as Jane. The marriage taking place in Toxteth would explain the lack of results in Anglesey.
regards, Peter
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Hi again.
I've had a look at the Liverpool connection. Jane's uncle Robert and his wife, together with 3 of their children, were resident at Richmond Terrace, Walton-on-the-Hill, during the 1881 census. Walton is alongside Toxteth. At this date, this family is considered to be wealthy and all are living on private means. They were still there in 1886, the date of the marriage of Jane and Richard at Toxteth registry Office. Also living in the area at this time are Sara and John Hughes at Everton. (Sara was the daughter of James the brother of the Rev. John). John is an Ironmaster and this family too is considered wealthy.
The initial topic was a part of a general investigation of those in the family that were marked as illegitimate. Roger sorted out the 2 that were suspect re. George Degan Lewis. I have sorted out my uncle Robert who was absorbed into my grandfather's family at Bryn Bella ... and Harriet has taken her rightful place as the daughter of my G-grandfather. The marriage details would have been nice but have been pencilled in as "highly probable".
(Robert Prichard of Llwydiarth Esgob married Elizabeth, the sister of the Sara mentioned above at her brother's residence at West Derby, Liverpool in 1841.
Regards to all from Peter.
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Hi Peter,
You may not be aware but there seems to be two other Jane Richards related to this family. I found them in Anglesey birth and death registrations:
Jane Richards, b. 6 Aug 1843, Llaneugrad - dau. of Michael Richards & Harriet Jones. Died 3 Mar 1851 at Llaneugrad, Jane Richards, age 7, dau. of farmer Michael Richards. Informant Ann Jones.
Jane Richards, b. 22 Jan 1852, Llaneugrad - dau. of Sarah Richards (father not recorded). Died 8 Feb 1852 at Llaneugrad, dau of Harriet Richards, age given as 1 month. Informant William Hughes.
The dates for Jane Richards (1852) were:
Born 23 Dec 1851, dau. of Michael Richards & Harriet Jones, Llaneugrad. Perhaps this is her death registration - died 24 Sep 1934, age 82, at Llanerchymedd, widow of farmer Richard Hughes. Informant Richard Jones, nephew of Gwynllys, Llanerchymedd.
Regards
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Hi DragonT.
Now we have a definite Illegitimate child that I didn't know of. The second Jane was the daughter of Sarah Richards, (1829-1901) and must have died at birth. Sarah was not married at this date. Later, in 1863, she married her 1st cousin, the son of her father's brother, Robert.
The first Jane must have been another infant death that I hadn't discovered. There is a suitable gap between her sisters, Margaret, (1842), and Catherine, (1844). This brings Michael's tally of children to 14.
Your death details for Jane, (1852) confirm her husband's name as Richard.
Grateful for your help.
regards, Peter.
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Hi Peter,
I don't want to mislead you, I can't be certain this is your Jane
Your death details for Jane, (1852) confirm her husband's name as Richard.
I looked for the death of a Jane Hughes who's husband was a farmer named Richard, who's age at death was correct for her birth 1851/2 and who died in roughly the right part of Anglesey. Do you recognize Richard Jones, nephew, who reported this death?
Regards
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I remember looking at the 1891 census for Bod-Deiniol, before losing it, and taking Richard's DoB from it ... C1853.
I'm still looking for the Richard Jones, nephew. None of Jane's sisters married a Jones so it's likely that he was Richard Hughes' nephew.
Regards, Peter.
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I think that we've come as far as we can with this topic. Corrections have been made and, whilst I'm looking at the legitimacy issue, another bell has rung. Sara Richards (1830-1901), mentioned above as marrying her cousin Robert Richards. They had a child, Kate Ellen, (1865). In the 1911 census Kate Ellen is shown at Pontypridd, Eglwysilan, Glamorgan. Also shown is a child, Ellen Elizabeth Richards, born Holyhead in 1900. She died in Anglesey in 1987. Could you check these details for me and can anyone in Llanerchymedd hear the Rev. John Richards spinning in his grave.
regards, Peter.
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Hi Peter,
I have some information about Sarah Richards, Kate Ellen Richards and Ellen Elizabeth Richards but there may be some surprises here for you!
From birth registrations;
Ellen Elizabeth was born 21 Feb 1900, Holyhead, the daughter of Griffith Richards and Kate Ellen Jones. She seems to have a brother William, born 5 Aug 1902, Holyhead, the son of Griffith Richards and Kate Jones.
I found a marriage:
Griffith Richards, 25, bach., draper of Cybi House, Holyhead the son of William Richards, policeman and Kate Jones, 22, spin., of Ogof Farm, Holyhead the daughter of William Jones, farmer on 7 Nov 1899 at Bethel Chapel, Holyhead.
It seems Sarah Richards (1830) married twice:
21 May 1852 at Llaneugrad Church - Sarah Richards spinster of Parciau, daughter of Michael Richards, farmer and John Jones, widower of Frigan Fawr, farmer, son of Edward Jones (no occupation given).
I can find birth registrations for two children of Sarah Richards and John Jones:
John born 2 Jun 1853, Llaneugrad
William born 26 Jul 1855, Llaneugrad
The 1861 census for Frigan, Llaneugrad shows (all born Anglesey):
John Jones, head, 50, farmer of 550 (or perhaps 350) acres.
Zarah .. , wife, 31
Edward .. , son, 23
Lydia .. , dau, 15
Elizabeth .. , dau, 13
John .. , son, 7
Owen Williams, serv, 16, carter
(Frigan was associated with the Bulkeley family about 50 years earlier, it seems).
I found two death registrations which I think are relevant:
30 Jun 1861 at Llaneugrad - John Jones, 49, farmer. Informant William Jones.
30 Jul 1858 at Llaneugrad - William Jones, 3, son of farmer John Jones. Informant Margaret Jones.
NorthWalesBMD has the marriage of Robert Richards and Sarah Jones (formerly Richards) at Bangor Cathedral in 1861. FreeBMD has the same marriage Bangor 11b 661 (J,A,S qtr - seems remarkably soon after the death of her first husband?).
I can find only one child born to Robert Richards and Sarah on Anglesey:
Catherine dau. of Robert Richards and Sarah Richards (widowed name Jones) - 2 May 1862, Llaneugrad.
Finally, I found these death registrations:
Sarah Richards, 7 Mar 1901, age 71, at Bryntirion, Trefdraeth, wife of farmer Robert Richards. Informant Kate Richards, daughter.
Robert Richards, 26 Apr 1902, age 65, at Bodragolwyn (?), Trefdraeth, farmer. Informant Kate Richards, daughter.
I hope you find this of interest,
Regards,
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Hi DragonT,
Now that's a lot of new info and, as you said, quite a surprise; (putting it mildly). It just shows how much information is out there, if you have access to it and the requisite savvy.
At the time of Sara's marriage to John Jones of Frigan Fawr her father was the tenant of Parciau Home Farm, 600 acres. Her mother's father, Capt. Henry Jones of Llysdylas is buried at Bangor Cathedral and her mother, Sara Emberson, was the daughter of "Landed Gentry" of Springfield, Essex. Regardless of wealth, John dies 9 years later, her son William too.
I see no mention of what happened to her other son, John, but he may have been left at Frigan Fawr with his other 2 half-siblings.
The speed of re-marriage may have had something to do with Robert's own siblings. Their parents had the farm, Hen Siop at Llangadwalader (110 Acres) but the father died in 1849, aged 48 and the mother in 1851 aged 46. None of their 4 surviving children had married but in 1861 we see Robert marrying Sara and his brother David marrying Anne of Bwlan. (David goes on to produce 7 children). A practical solution to get extra help on the farm.
The coincidence of a Kate Ellen Jones marrying a Policeman named Richards and having a child named Ellen was a blow but I'm nonplussed ... these things are sent to try us and I'll re-check my source.
Once again, many thanks for your help.
Regards, Peter.
PS Just had a look at the 1871 for Hen Siop. David and Anne had 6 children at this date, plus 3 domestic servants and 3 farm labourers.
Just checked my source for the family in Eglwyslian, Glamorgan. It's the family of Griffith Richards, the policeman's son from Holyhead. Just a name coincidence after all.
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My name is Edwardo ap Iwan, from Argentina.
I want to provide data regarding Jane Richards (daughter of Michael Richards and Harriet Jones) of Bod Daniel.
Jane was the sister of my great-grandmother Elizabeth Richards (who married inAnglesey to my great-grandfather Rev. Robert Jones).
My grandfather Iorwerth ap Iwan Jones (son of Elizabth and Robert) told us that his sister Ellen Jones (Lena) returned to Wales and married Thomas Cairn Jones. She cared for her aunt Jane Richards when she was widowed. When Jane died - 1934/09/24 (she lived in Bod Daniel) in her will, she leaves the farm to her nephews William Owen and Ellen Jones (Lena - my great-aunt).
When Ellen Jones became a widow, she asked my grandfather to send someone to take care of Bod Daniel, she never had children. Unfortunately my grandfather did not have the resources to send anyone. My dad always told me that that farm was abandoned even with the milking parlor that Ellen had.
Today I have in my possession some of all this information.
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Hello Edward.
I have had a quick look at my records regarding Michael and Harriet Richards and see that my entry for your Great Grandmother, Elizabeth, ends with the 1871 census that shows her as unmarried and living with her parents at Bod Daniel. It would appear that, after her marriage to the Rev. Robert Jones it became, for me, impossible to trace amongst all of the other Joneses in Anglesey.
I see that you are from Patagonia and I wondered whether you knew that Elizabeth's brother, William Emberson Richards emigrated to Patagonia with his wife and three children in 1882. (Gaiman) At that date W.E. was working for his father at Bod Daniel and married in 1876. Perhaps both families emigrated at the same time. William's sons re-emigrated to Canada and I am in touch with some of their offspring.
Let me know . Regards, Peter