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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: cnerys on Monday 18 May 15 12:03 BST (UK)

Title: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Monday 18 May 15 12:03 BST (UK)
Hi,Could anyone advise me which registration district would Brookhouse in Denbigh come under please? I am trying to obtain a correct death certificate for my 3x great grandfather Robert Roberts who on the 1901 census is living in Brookhouse with his wife Jane. Because of the common name there are many deaths in Ruthin district and also St. Asaph and I have bought incorrect death certificates from both districts. He was born approx 1844 as his age is consistent on all the census.
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ColC on Monday 18 May 15 15:35 BST (UK)
There are a number of burial records on FindMyPast which might help.

The only Robert Roberts wife Jane I can see on 1901 census is still there in 1911. Do you have a any more info which might help, such as occupation, children etc?

Colin
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Tuesday 19 May 15 19:29 BST (UK)
Hi Colin,
By the 1911 Census, Robert Roberts is deceased as his wife Jane is living with her daughter and son in law Edward and Mary Ann Williams with Mary Ann's son John H Roberts living at Bryn Hyfryd Pwllglas.
Robert and Jane Roberts had 4 children, Margaret, Robert, Jane and Mary Anne. I have bought recently death in 1911 and 1904 both incorrect and have sent for Ruthin district, is this where I'm going wrong?
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 19 May 15 20:08 BST (UK)
he's alive in Sept 1903, as there's a death announcement for Jane, wife of Thomas Jones and daughter of RObert Roberts of Brookhouse
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 19 May 15 20:13 BST (UK)
There's also a Robert William Roberts of Brookhouse being appointed as overseer by RHuddlan parish cuocil in 1910 -not sure if this is father or son
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 20 May 15 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi Mabel,
 Thank you for the info, we knew of the death notice in the paper of Robert's daughter, which means Robert and Jane were still living in Brookhouse in 1903. We have been unable to find any such death notice for Robert Roberts or his wife Jane.
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 20 May 15 11:52 BST (UK)
Don't think Robert William Roberts is part of my family, Brookhouse was only a small place, I'll investigate the census for him. My Robert Roberts did have a son also Robert Roberts, gets confusing!
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 09 June 15 22:01 BST (UK)
Hi,Could anyone advise me which registration district would Brookhouse in Denbigh come under please? I am trying to obtain a correct death certificate for my 3x great grandfather Robert Roberts who on the 1901 census is living in Brookhouse with his wife Jane. Because of the common name there are many deaths in Ruthin district and also St. Asaph and I have bought incorrect death certificates from both districts. He was born approx 1844 as his age is consistent on all the census.
Kind regards
Nerys

Currently, in the present day, Brookhouse lies within the town of Denbigh. 

Denbigh is slightly nearer to St Asaph than to Ruthin, but there is not much in it.

There is a cemetery at St Marcellas church, Whitchurch Road  which is very close to Brookhouse.   It may reward you  to pay a visit  to that church and cemetery.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 09 June 15 22:14 BST (UK)
There is a Brookhouse Mill  which currently is a very popular Restaurant and Bar. In fact my son once worked there.

Once upon a time it was a working mill, alongside the River Ystrad.

There is a row  of terraced cottages named Brookhouse consisting of  about 20 properties at the most.      Does the census give a house number or house name?

I live in Denbigh,  so if you give me any more details, I can physically  go  and look at the house/cottage   Or the Cemetery.  If you are too far away yourself.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: despair on Tuesday 09 June 15 23:17 BST (UK)
According to Genuki,Brookhouse was part of Llanrhaeadr yng Nghimeirch sub-district of Llanrhaeadr/Ruthin

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/LlanrhaeadrNghinmeirch/

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/placemaps

According to FreeBMD there is only one death in Ruthin district consistent with a birth date of 1844 and that is in Mar qtr 1911(11b 216).Perhaps this is one you have already obtained?
Interestingly,NorthWalesBMD has two deaths for a Robert Roberts(one a Robert J Roberts)in 1911

1911 RHAEADR/07/4
1911 RHAEADR/07/5  (Robert J Roberts)

Perhaps a request to the local office at Ruthin may distinguish these and/or reveal any relevance.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Tuesday 09 June 15 23:25 BST (UK)
Hi,
Robert Roberts b 1844 -?

1871 living in Brookhouse with wife Jane and children Margaret and 'Baby', no number for Brookhouse
1881 living in 22 Brookhouse with wife Jane and children Robert, Jane and Mary A
1891 still lilving in 22 Brookhouse with wife Jane and daughter Mary A.
1901 living at 12 Brookhouse with wife Jane, no children.
wife Jane is widowed on the 1911 census and is living with her daughter and son in law in Pwllglas.
I live in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, my parents live in N Wales and I visit a couple of times a year. I have had a quick look in St. Marcellas , the grass was quite high if I remember, but didn't have any success. I might have a clue from the census as it said St. Asaph registration district for the Brookhouse area, so I'll try one more time to find Robert.
It would be lovely to see a photo of the cottages though, thank you.
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Tuesday 09 June 15 23:30 BST (UK)
Hi Roger,
The 1911 death is the most recent one I sent for and it was incorrect. It was the same person I was muddled up with when i first began searching for my Robert Roberts as there were two born Gyffylliog in 1844. I will have to send an e-mail to the Archives to confirm the registration district. The Census gives Brookhouse as St.Asaph district, would that be different for BMD? My Robert Roberts didn't have a middle name noted in any census he was on so I would discount that.
Thank you for your information.
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 09 June 15 23:45 BST (UK)
In the mean time,  If you find Brookhouse Mill  restaurants  post code  or agoogle address for it.  The row of cottages are just the other side of the main road  and just a short distance along the river.   You could look for them on Street View.   St Marcellas church is about a quarter to half a mile away.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 10 June 15 00:01 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help, I didn't think to google it :)
Best wishes
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: despair on Wednesday 10 June 15 00:16 BST (UK)
It is a little tricky with Brookhouse being so close to Denbigh,but I would keep with local references being under Llanrhaeadr/Ruthin as given on NorthWalesBMD and these are the references that the local office will understand also.unlike GRO.Age correlation between the NorthWalesBMD and FreeBMD doesn't appear possible unfortunately.
I have noticed there is a death for a Robert Roberts aged 62 in 1906 in Ruthin district(Mar qtr 11b 220).Unfortunately on NorthWalesBMD for that year there is both a Ruthin entry and a Llanrhaeadr entry.It is certainly worth enquiring about(not buying) the Llanrhaeadr one

1906 RHAEADR/06/70

For info Pwllglas is in the Efenechtyd sub district of Ruthin.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 10 June 15 09:42 BST (UK)
According to Genuki,Brookhouse was part of Llanrhaeadr yng Nghimeirch sub-district of Llanrhaeadr/Ruthin

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/LlanrhaeadrNghinmeirch/

http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/placemaps

According to FreeBMD there is only one death in Ruthin district consistent with a birth date of 1844 and that is in Mar qtr 1911(11b 216).Perhaps this is one you have already obtained?
Interestingly,NorthWalesBMD has two deaths for a Robert Roberts(one a Robert J Roberts)in 1911

1911 RHAEADR/07/4
1911 RHAEADR/07/5  (Robert J Roberts)

Perhaps a request to the local office at Ruthin may distinguish these and/or reveal any relevance.

Regards
Roger

Llanrhaedr  is about two miles up the road from brookhouse.
There is an old church there with a very old cemetery.  So that could be an alternative location for the burial.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 10 June 15 11:22 BST (UK)
I have not been  to the Llanrhaeadr Churchyard so that is a possibity. I'm trying to remember where Robert and Jane got married just in case that's a possibility too. Thank you :)
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 10 June 15 12:34 BST (UK)
www.brookhousemill.co.uk   LL16 4WS    That will  enable you to  look at the maps and satellite views.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 10 June 15 14:40 BST (UK)
According to Genuki,Brookhouse was part of Llanrhaeadr yng Nghimeirch sub-district of Llanrhaeadr/Ruthin





According to FreeBMD there is only one death in Ruthin district consistent with a birth date of 1844 and that is in Mar qtr 1911(11b 216).Perhaps this is one you have already obtained?
Interestingly,NorthWalesBMD has two deaths for a Robert Roberts(one a Robert J Roberts)in 1911

1911 RHAEADR/07/4
1911 RHAEADR/07/5  (Robert J Roberts)

Perhaps a request to the local office at Ruthin may distinguish these and/or reveal any relevance.

Regards
Roger

What year are you referring to in your interpretation of  "GENUKI"   web site?

Is there a difference between civil  registration boundaries  and the boundaries of religious  parishes?           I think there must be.  It can be very confusing at times, particularly  as Civil Adminstrative boundaries change  regularly.

I think that Brookhouse was in the Parish  of Denbigh, because Brookhouse is only 200  yards away from The Parish Church of Denbigh, St Marcellas.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: despair on Wednesday 10 June 15 15:07 BST (UK)
I'm sure there are differences between religious parish boundaries and civil registration districts.I was referring to the civil registration for BMD to identify a death year for certificate purposes.If you access the page below and then go to Maps/Places within the boundaries you will see Brookhouse specified.It is a separate question I think where anyone from Brookhouse may have gone to church and/or been buried,but I can't find a church parish register record that would help.There is also the possibility that they were non-conformist(?).

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: cnerys on Thursday 11 June 15 11:17 BST (UK)
I have marriage for Robert Roberts and Jane Jones at the Independant Chapel, St.Asaph in 1868. I shall have to dig deeper into this Chapel.
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Thursday 11 June 15 19:40 BST (UK)
The Registers may have been transferred  to the Denbighshire Records Office at Ruthin Gaol.
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: DaveC on Wednesday 14 September 16 11:33 BST (UK)
Has there been any further progress on this?
I am also searching for a Brookhouse resident, William Jones b.1842.
Genuki correctly states that Llanrhaiadr Parish came under Ruthin but then goes on to say that the parish was reduced a lot in the 19th century - so it may have changed.
There is some confusion in the GRO transcripts for the records I was looking at, 4/5 Williams in that quarter, so I phoned the Ruthin Register Office to find out whether it would be possible to go there and check.
The lady was very helpful, asked who I was looking for, found the records, confirmed that one was for William son of John & Ann from Brookhouse and let me order it over the phone.

That was a service that I didn't know about.

Dave
Title: Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 14 September 16 11:40 BST (UK)
Today  Brookhouse is part of the town  of Denbigh.

St Marcellas church is close to Brookhouse, the cemetery there may contain  the family.