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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: argyllshiregirl on Thursday 14 May 15 01:38 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My father and I have been on the hunt for my missing great great grandfather for many years and I just saw a clue that might finally end our search in Dunbartonshire. Hoping someone here can help.
Archibald MCKINNON was born around 1810 on the Isle of Mull in the parish of Kilninian, Argyll. He married first to Catherine MCARTHUR in the 1830s and had 3 known children, Catherine, Donald and Neil at Burg, Kilninian. Between 1847 - 1849, Catherine MCARTHUR died and Archibald married again. He married for the second time in 1849 to Christine/Christina/Christy/Chrissy MCDOUGALL on the island of Coll. The couple is next found on the 1851 census, along with Archibald's son, Neil, on Tiree. Then they vanish.
I had an idea that they might have gone to Inverness or Skye but no luck there so far. Today, I saw a clue, on a website that I have no subscription to, mentioning an Archibald and Christina MCKINNON from Kilninian living somewhere in Bonhill, Dunbartonshire in 1861. Could it really, finally be them??
Thank you for any answers!
Mary
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1861 Scotland census
Church St Downies Land, Bonhill Dumbartonshire
Archibald McKinnon 50 Laborer at Dye works born Kilninian, Argyllshire
Christina McKinnon 48 Kilninian, Argyllshire
I only have access to the transcription as above. I can't see them on the 1871 as yet.
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Wow, thank you, Crisane. That must be them! I wonder what else we can dig up? What a travelling man that great great grandfather of mine! Maybe he even died elsewhere.
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Goodness gracious, they seem to be gone again! Cannot find them on 1871 census for Bonhill or otherwise in Dunbartonshire, unless I am missing them. SP is tricky to use sometimes ... need just the right search terms and spellings.
However, I did find a death for Christina MCKINNON in 1886 in Hutchesontown, Lanarkshire. She was a 71 year old widow by then. What became of her husband, Archbald MCKINNON, and where/when? I found an 1869 death for an Archibald MCKINNON, age (about) 62 years in a poor house in Dumbarton but the details are so few that I cannot tell what Archibald MCKINNON this might be.
Mary
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I can't see either of them in 1881 but there is this one and the place name Tirie as place of birth caught my eye as that is where Archibald, Christina and Neil were in 1851. Was Christina a widow when she married Archibald. This one could only be yours if she was the mother of a Flora.
1891
Stirling Street Denny Stirlingshire
Robert Sneddon 39 coal miner O'Monkland, Lanarkshire
Flora Sneddon 45 O'Monkland, Lanarkshire
Alexander Sneddon 19 coal miner Shotts, Lanarkshire
James Sneddon 17 St Nimans, coal miner Stirlingshire
Elizabeth Sneddon 12 scholar Denny, Stirlingshire
Margaret Sneddon 10 scholar Denny, Stirlingshire
Christina McKinnon 77 mother-in-law Annuitant, Tirie, Argyleshire
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Hi, I was looking about and found some info for you and something interesting.
Births for Archibald McKinnon:
bap. 4 July 1790
Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll
father: Dugal McKinnon
mother: Catherine McKinnon
bap. 2 Feb 1790
Tyree, Argyll
father: Donald McKinnon
mother: Mary McDonald
bap. 9 Feb 1806
Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll
father: Archibald McKinnon
mother: Flora Morrison
bap. 10 Jan 1807
Tyree, Argyll
father: Donald McKinnon
mother: Effy McPhail
Marriage:
Archibald McKinnon & Cathrine McArthur
26 April 1831
Iona, Argyll
children to Archibald McKinnon & Cathrine McArthur:
Allan born 8 March 1832 Kilfinichen & Kilvickeon, Argyll
John born 2 July 1835 Iona, Argyll
Rory born Aug 1837 Iona, Argyll
Cathrine born 12 Oct 1839 Iona, Argyll
Mary born 10 Feb 1842 Iona, Argyll
Hugh born 2 March 1844 Iona, Argyll
Thomas born 8 April 1848 Iona, Argyll
** I could not find the births for Donald, or Neil but as you can see there are quite a few gaps.
1841 census
Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll
Archibald McKinnon age 35 born Argyll occ: agricultural labourer
Cathrine McKinnon age 35 born Argyll
Catharine McKinnon age 4 born Argyll
this is where it gets interesting.
Marriage:
Archibald McKinnon & Chirsty McDougall
5 July 1849
Tyree, Argyll
Birth:
Margaret McKinnon
born: 29 March 1851
Iona, Argyll
father: Archibald McKinnon
mother: Cathrine McArthur
** Archibald had a child with Cathrine after he married Christina
Death:
Catharine McKinnon (alias Mrs Melvile) sister in law of Lachlan McKinnon pensioner deargphost(?) died of fever
1st November 1851 Iona, Argyll
I don't know for sure if this is the Catherine who was married to Archibald but her name, date & place of death correspond with the birth of last child Margaret. Even being a sister in law to Lachlan fits. Also, I found this entry in parish registers listed just under the births of Thomas & Margaret McKinnon children of Archibald McKinnon & Cathrine McArthur.
Births for Cathrine McArthur:
20 Sept 1807 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. Malcolm McArthur & Catharine McColl
21 July 1805 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. Donald McArthur & Mary McDonald
25 May 1806 Kilninian 7 Kilmore, Argyll p. Malcolm McArthur & Catharine McNeil
28 Feb 1808 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. Hugh McArthur & Catharine Kennedy
18 Nov 1810 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. Angus McArthur & Catharine Gillis
12 Oct 1801 Tyree, Argyll p. John McArthur & Marion McArthur
6 Nov 1805 Tyree, Argyll p. Archibald McArthur & Flory McKinnon
8 Jan 1813 Tyree, Argyll p. Donald McArthur & Marion McInnes
births for Christina McDougall:
20 Aug 1803 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. John McDougall & Mary McQuary
12 July 1810 Tyree, Argyll p. Dougd McDougall & Cathe McDonald
12 July 1812 Tyree, Argyll p. John McDougall & Marion McDonald
17 May 1812 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. John McDougall & Mary Beaton
11 Jan 1815 Tyree, Argyll p. Alexander McDougall & Ann Campbell
16 Sept 1816 Klninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. John McDougall & Christina McNeill
24 March 1817 Kilninian & Kilmore, Argyll p. John McDougall & Mary McInnes
** these are the births I found in the area where it is said both Cathrine & Christina were born.
*** I also found 3 marriages for Christina McDougall prior to her marrying Archibald McKinnon-they are 1836 to Archibald McQuarie, 1842 to Donald McDonald, and 1835 to Hector McDonald.I found children for each of these marriages but no Flora.It is possible however that like the births for children to Archibald & Cathrine some records may be missing.
Hope this is helpful, Kim
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Hi Kim,
Wow, thank you very much! That's a lot of digging you did for me there.
The McKinnon couple on Iona is a red herring, Kim. Many times I have run into their data, but they are not the same Archie and Catherine that I have.
My Archie McKinnon was born about 1810 to Neil McKinnon and Margaret McArthur at Kilninian. His wife, Catherine McArthur, was born about 1813 to Archibald McArthur and Catherine McLean.
Both Archie and Catherine were Kilninian natives. They are missing from most records though. You did find them on the 1841 census I see, with their daughter, Catherine age 4. All the children, including Neil and Donald, remained in the area for years, married and worked there. I have no marriage for Archie and Catherine, no deaths.
It looks like the family blew apart after Catherine, Archie's first wife, died. Even though Archie and his second wife, Christy McDougall, were both Kilninian natives they married on Coll and went to Tiree after that, never to set foot on Mull again. Young Neil went to Tiree with his father, Donald went to live with his McArthur relatives and Catherine is missing entirely in 1851. Archie and Christy turn up in Dunbartonshire in 1861, but Archie seems to disappear forever after that.
It would seem that the 3 McKinnon children had no contact with their father, Archie, after he married a second time. We have the feeling that family relationships soured after that. In a family that adhered very strictly to the traditional naming pattern (even up to my birth), not one of Archie's grandsons ever received the name Archibald. This was just not done.
Christy McDougall was the daughter of John McDougall and Mary Beaton. I haven't found any connection yet with these McDougalls to the James McDougall that young Catherine McKinnon eventually married in 1866. I'm sure I'll find one though, knowing Mull!
Mary
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Hi Mary,
My third great grandfather Alexander McDougall (son of John McDougall and Mary Beaton) was the brother to Christina McDougall. Do you have a death record for the Christina/Christy who married Archibald Mckinnon that confirms her parentage?
Many Thanks :)
Nikki
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Hi Nikki,
Yes, actually I do have a death record for Christina (MCDOUGALL) MCKINNON. Send me a private message and I will forward it to you if you do not already have it.
Mary
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Hi Mary,
Thanks for your very kind offer. I actually ended up purchasing the death record/certificate today on
Scotland's People (There is an offer of 20 free credits atm - just enter "scotland" into the voucher code section). So glad that you posted on here as I may not have found her death record, thank-you :D
I have McKinnon in my family line too, no idea if this family line is the same as yours at this stage. my McDougall line were originally from Mull but my Kinnons were from Coll, I think but not 100 per cent sure.
Nikki
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Hello Nikki,
Wonderful! And thank you so much for that tip - just got my 20 free credits!! I will phone my father about that deal too.
I have this theory that everyone in Argyll is related in some way, but those on Mull and those nearby islands are related 2 and 3 times over! The farther I go back in my father's family tree, the more I keep finding the same surnames. My MCKINNONs are from Burg, Kilninian but they, or their related MCARTHURs (or both) were possibly cleared from the community of Inivea (above Calgary Bay) before that. Likely, all the MCKINNONs around are the same, but very far back. My maiden name is FLETCHER. They came from Glen Orchy on the mainland but there are many FLETCHERs on Mull who claim not to be from the same family. Well, Y DNA testing by my father and others has proved otherwise. They migrated so long ago, likely connected to their traditional cattle trade occupation, that they had lost touch with their Glen Orchy roots. Fascinating stuff it is connecting these dots! Do you know who the informant on the death record for Christina was? I imagine he is a son of one of Christina's brothers but I am not sure which one?? Mary
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Hi Mary,
About to head off to bed.
The informant Dugald McDougall was the husband of her niece. Her niece was Joan/Joanna McDougall who was the daughter of Lachlan McDougall and Mary McKinnon. She died in their home.
Cheers,
Nicole
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Hi Nikki,
Oh my goodness! So her niece, a MCDOUGALL, married another MCDOUGALL?? This MCDOUGALL had parents who were MCDOUGALL/MCKINNON? That is 3 MCDOUGALL/MCKINNON marriages now that I know of. Reminds me of my great great grandparents, Donald PATERSON and Isabella PATERSON, who were first cousins. What fun! Have a good night. Keep in touch. Mary
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Archibald may have died in the poorhouse Dumbarton/Dunbarton 1869.
I have him bap 9 Feb 1806 Kilninian, Kilninian and Kilmore as a son of Archibald McKinnon/Flora Morrison
http://www.mullfamilies.co.uk/
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Hi Man of Mull,
Wonderful to see you here!Thank you for the reply. We have never been 100% sure about the parentage of either Archibald MCKINNON or his first wife Catherine MCARTHUR (my 2x great grandparents) so the couple you name is certainly very possible. We had been working under the assumption that Archibald was the s/o Neil MCKINNONand Margaret MCARTHUR. However, I followed their son, Archibald, down to his death on the mainland and discovered his widow, Alice MCDONALD, so that eliminated him right there. I would love to be as certain as you are that Arch MCKINNON and Flora MORRISON are my true 3x great grandparents! That way, I might have a chance at finding siblings for the younger Arch MCKINNON (2x gg). It would also allow me to be sure (or more sure) that Arch the younger was indeed the man who died in the poorhouse.
Have you done any DNA testing? I recently did autosomal testing and got a lot of hits back to Mull, as was quite expected. I am no scientist and I barely know what any of it means! If you, (or any other Mull descendant reading this), is interested, I am kit # 559241 on FTDNA and uploaded to Gedmatch as kit #T241819.
Mary
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I've just come across this thread but find it somewhat perplexing to follow.
You state that your Archibald Mckinnon was married to a Catherine McArthur and that they had 3 known children: Catherine, Donald, Neil all born Burg, Kilninian.
However, there only seems to have been one marriage of an Archibald to a Catherine McArthur and that was 26/4/1831 Iona and they had numerous children between 1832 and at least 1851 when both were still living - indeed, you say yourself you have rejected this couple as not being yours.
I cannot for the life of me find a Catherine, Donald or Neil McKinnon born/baptised to an Archibald and Catherine - where/when were these 3 born/baptised please? Presumably you are connected to one of these 3 - what happened to each of them, where/when married, and where on the census have you found them? You seem positive they had these 3 children so can you put me out of my misery please and explain how you know this.
Many thanks.
Annette
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There's a MacKinnon's cave at Burg, spent a couple of nights in the next one to it many years ago. Once the fire died down there was a clatter at the cave-mouth which turned out to be a herd of wild goats wanting shelter & not pleased at the new arrivals!
Skoosh.
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You are no doubt going to think I am 'off my trolley' but please bear with me.
Looking at your other threads re. McKinnon I see that Neil was a shepherd, married to an Ann, and looking at a couple of the births of their children, they were said to have married 30/7/1883 and her maiden name was Paterson. Couldn't find a marriage for Neil Mckinnon and Ann Paterson 1883 so eventually searched for Ann Paterson married to a Mckinnon and up it popped BUT his name was shown as Donald, a shepherd, indeed married 30/7/1883 and his parents are indeed shown as Archibald McKinnon and Catherine McArthur (in census prior to marriage 'Donald' is listed as Neil, and a shepherd.
Again, from other threads, Catherine McKinnon was married to a James McDougall in 1866 and this also shows her parents as Archibald McKinnon and Catherine McArthur and her age suggests birthdate of 1839.
I firmly believe that Archibald McKinnon and Catherine McArthur who married 26/4/1831 Iona are indeed the parents of Catherine, and that 'Donald' and 'Neil' are actually the same person.
I believe that 1841 census you have of an Archibald, Catherine and a dau. Catherine 4 is NOT the right family - in 1841 Archibald and Cathrine are in Iona with Allan 5 (think this should read 8 years), John 5, Roger 3 (believe this is the Rory shown baptised 1837), and Cathrine 1. These children tie in with the baptisms that have already been listed on this thread. In 1851 still in Iona with further children Mary, Hugh, Thomas and Margaret. 'Donald' McKinnon is as you say with McArthur family and the 'Neil' you believe is yours is not the one with an Archibald and Christina (who you believe to be a second wife whom he married in 1849). Archibald married to Catherine McArthur is still alive in 1851! By 1861 - still in Iona - Catherine is now widowed, shown as Pauper, wid. of Ag. Lab.
As proved by marriage to Ann Paterson, and 1861/1871/1881 census, Donald McKinnon became Neil McKinnon as an adult (why I can't speculate), these are not 2 different people.
Archibald McKinnon died sometime between 1851 and 1861 and as I can't find a death for him from 1855 this would suggest that he died between 1851 and 1854 (which is of no help in confirming who his parents were). However, the 1851 census shows his birthplace as Kilfinichen bc.1803.
So, in conclusion, I can't confirm who his parents were, and I've no doubt muddied the waters somewhat - however, if the Catherine who married James McDougall and the 'Neil', shepherd, who married Ann Paterson (as Donald) are definitely 'yours' then the parents of both are definitely Archibald McKinnon and Catherine McArthur who lived in Iona 1841/1851/1861 (the latter with Catherine a widow).
I can't force you to believe me, of course, but feel sure I have got it correctly.
Annette
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Hello folks,
It sure is confusing, isn't it? Let me tackle these points one at a time.
1) There are 2 Burgs on Mull. One at Kilninian, where my McKinnons are from, although they could easily have migrated there from somewhere else. The other Burg is the one made famous by the book 'Tea With Chrissie'.
2) Archibald McKinnon, my 2x great grandfather, married twice. However, we have only ever found a marriage registration for his second wife, Christina McDougall, whom he married in 1849 on Coll. He may have had an irregular marriage with Catherine McArthur, or the records are lost, or we just have not found them yet. Catherine McArthur is listed as mother on all three children's later records - Catherine, Donald and Neil.
3) The marriage registration for my great grandparents, Neil McKinnon and Ann Paterson in 1883 is wrong! My father searched for years (prior to internet) for that marriage and was surprised at the mistake. Neil could not read nor write, nor speak English, so I suppose he never noticed when his brother/best man, Donald, was mistakenly written in the spot where the groom's name goes!
4) Neil and Donald McKinnon are definitely 2 different people. My father, now 85, grew up in Argyll and went to school on Mull for a while. He was born a month after Neil died but knew his aunts/uncles (Neil's children) as well as his gran, Ann Paterson, who lived to be 97. He also knew his cousins, the children of his uncle, Donald McKinnon. The only ones he never knew were the children of Catherine McKinnon (who married James McDougall). James died in his early 30s, as did 2 of their 4 children. All were girls and the 2 survivors moved to Glasgow, worked and were married there. We only traced them recently. So, being immersed in the family life of his McKinnons, he already possessed most of the knowledge before records confirmed it.
5) Burg, Kilninian has always been at the centre of the McKinnon family history, as far back as we know it - which isn't really very far at all. Iona has never come into it, nor have names like Rory, Allen, Thomas etc. They would surely have been mentioned by someone if they were siblings to my great grandfather??? I still think the Iona McKinnons are a red herring. I know oral history doesn't hold much value today, but if relatives with those given names were among our McKinnons, I am sure we would have heard tell of them. Also, my McKinnons were very adherent to the traditional naming pattern and those names never appear anywhere in the family. Not proof - just a strong feeling.
Does that help to explain my thinking at all? I don't think I tackled every point, but got some of them. Family history would be no fun if it was all laid out in a neat row in front of us - the puzzling, theorizing and debating is all part of this great game of detective. Thanks for your input. :D
Mary