RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: chr1st1an on Sunday 03 May 15 12:56 BST (UK)
-
I have a picture of her (Hannah) together with her husband (Thomas Poole) and their teenager daughter (Gertrude) taken at Featherstone (Yorkshire) around 1908. Gertrude was my great-grandmother. I am making our family tree, from Spain, and I'm stuck!
I'm stuck because although in the Yorkshire 1911 Census they state:
Thomas Poole, age 50; years married: 26; occupation: coal miner hewer; and birthplace: Princes End (near Dudley), Staffordshire.
And
Hannah Poole, age 47; years married: 26; birthplace: Mendlesham, Suffolk.
I cannot find either of them in Birth certificates, nor in Marriage certificates, so I need help to find Hannah's maiden name.
Thank you all!
-
Hi
Welcome to rootschat :)
Gertrudes birth certificate should give her mothers maiden name
June qtr 1892
Gertrude Poole
Pontefract reg district 9c 120
-
In 1891 they are listed as Pool.
Possible marriage but you really need the birth certificate to confirm mothers maiden name
Marriage June qtr 1885
Thomas Pool
Hannah Prike
Wakefield reg district 9c 27
-
Duplicate posting:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719747.msg5635069#msg5635069
-
Details on 1885 Pool/Prike marriage:
Thomas Pool,23, miner Father: Robert
Hannah Prike, 20 Father: William
May 7th 1885
-
Robert Pool was a miner and William Prike a gasman.
Witnesses: John Pool and Elizabeth Prike
-
1891 Census has a William Prike born 1837 Mendlesham, living in Featherstone near Wakefield with his wife Eliza.
Pce:3759
Folio:95
Pg No:45
-
Hannah Pryke is on 1881 census as a servant to Isaac Kaberry, Broad Lane, Pontefract. She is age 16, born Mindelsham, Suffolk.
RG11/4589/100/20
-
In 1881 William & Eliza in Pontefract and transcribed as Parke.
Haven't yet found them in 1871.
Annette
-
Eventually found family (thanks to daughter Bertha) in 1871 at Mendlesham but surname listed as Davy! As well as Hannah being one of the listed children it also includes a stepdaughter named Mary Ann Spiers. Looked for Marriage of William and Eliza and he married as William Davy to Eliza Spiers Mar.qtr.1864 Hartismere.
So why did William Davy become William Prike/Prike after 1871??
There were 2 William Davey/Davy's born Mendlesham ca. 1836 - one son of a John Davey and Mary Finbow BUT the other was son of Robert and Maria. Robert Davey married Maria Prike 12/10/1831 Mendlesham so it seems that for whatever reason after 1871 son William assumed his mothers maiden name.
Annette
-
Thank you all so much!!!
Thank you Annette, thank you "sgf28", thank you "nanny jan" and thank you "rosie99".
It's amazing how much you have found out!
I've tried to find out more about Thomas Poole's family with the information you gave me yesterday:
Thomas Poole's father was Robert Poole (written Pool in 1891 Census and 1885 marriage certificate),
John Pool/Poole must have been Thomas Poole's brother.
And the sons must have been born in Princes End (near Dudley) in Staffordshire.
But I cannot find any data, (and I've tried hard yesterday and today). Could you please help me complete this part of my family tree?
Thanks in advance!
-
There is a Thomas Poole, born 1861, living with his mother Hannah in 1871 at Halmers End Newcastle under Lyme, his mother was widowed and born 1828 Germany.
Hannah then appears to be on 1881 census Newcastle upon Lyme married to Robert Smart born 1844 Biddulph, and living with them is stepson Thomas Poole born 1861 Audley Staffordshire, coal miner. Robert is also a miner.
Not sure if this is your Thomas so needs some further research:-\
-
I will have to check those details...
This morning I think I've found something else!!!
Thomas Pool (1862) appears in the 1881 Yorkshire Census. Age: 19 Born in Sedgley, Staffordshire (that's very close to Princes End), and works as a Coal Miner, living at Ryhill.
Next to him there is also a Samuel Pool, 17 (1864), Horse Driver at Coal Pit, b. Sedgley;
and John Pool, 15 (1866) b. Durham (!)
and Emily Pool, 11 (1870) b. Pontefract
and Abraham Pool, 23 (1858) b. Sedgley + his wife Mary Jane, 22 (1859) b. Dudley
and a grandson: Robert Pool, 6m (1881) b. Hemsworth.
They are all stated as sons and daughter (Emily) but I cannot figure out who is the father or mother since the "Head" is someone called John Ogley.
Does anyone understand this??
-
On the 1881 Census, it has Emily Webb, born 1837, Bilston, Staffs, as mother to Thomas Pool born 1862.
She had married a Peter Webb on 15th April 1872, at Featherstone. Emily was age 34 on marriage, a widow and Peter was 25, a coal miner. Emily's father was John Eaton, miner.
-
John Ogley is a separate household. The schedule number for him is 114, Emily Webb is 115.
-
1861 Census High St, Sedgeley:
Emily Pool born 1837, Sedgeley wife of Robert Pool born 1834, Sedgeley, a miner and Abraham Pool age 4, their son.
Piece:2051
Folio:74
Pg No:12
-
Possible death for Robert:
Robert Poole
Age:36
Burial: 21 Dec 1870
Featherstone, Yorkshire, England
-
This link gives more details for a Robert Pool death: :-\
http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/database/result/41621.html
-
Hate to rain on the parade but this appears to be Thomas with his mother on 1881 census:-
Name: Thomas Pool Age:19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relationship to Head: Son (Child)
Mother:Emily Webb
Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Ryhill
County/Island:
Yorkshire Occupation:
Coal Miner
Registration district:
Hemsworth
Sub registration district:
Hemsworth
Emily Webb 44
Abraham Pool 23
Mary Jane Pool 22
Thomas Pool 19
Samuel Pool 17
John Pool 15
Emily Pool 11
Joseph Webb 8
Elijah Webb 4
Sarah Jane Webb 2
Eliza Webb
Robert Webb
His mother Emily was born in Bilston, Staffordshire.
-
"CereUK" your help is most welcome!
Any chance of finding out the marriage certificate of Robert Poole and Emily, to find out what was Emily Poole/Webb maiden name?
P.S: Thanks "sgf28" for that amazing link!
-
On Emily Pool marriage to Peter Webb she gives father's name as John Eaton.
Robert Poole marriage to Emily Heaton:
Robert Poole, age 20. Father: Benjamin Poole
Emily Heaton, born 1836. Father: John Heaton
Marriage: 24 Apr 1854
St. Martin, Tipton, Stafford, England
-
Maybe Emily's baptism:
Emily Eaton
Baptism: 02 Apr 1837
St Leonard's, Bilston, Stafford, England
Father:John Eaton
Mother:Anne
-
Splendid !!!
-
I guess Eaton must be the correct spelling...
-
The only mystery left to uncover in this family is:
Who was the father of Mary Ann Spiers?
Remember that Mary Ann was the daughter of Eliza Spiers who then married William Davey/Davy (the one who changed his surname to Pryke)...
All that I know is that she is registered:
Marianne Spears
JUN 1857
Hartismere
4a 502
-
I need help to find the following data:
Birth certificate details of
Raymond Wardle (1916-1974), son of Gertrude and John Wardle; and
Cynthia Wardle (1923 or 1924 – 2000), daughter of Gertrude and John Wardle.
Marriage certificate details of
Raymond Wardle + Eleanor Joyce Duckworth (around 1945); and
Cynthia Wardle + Leslie Simpkin (around 1944)
Thank you all!!!
-
I need help to find the following data:
Birth certificate details of
Raymond Wardle (1916-1974), son of Gertrude and John Wardle; and
Cynthia Wardle (1923 or 1924 – 2000), daughter of Gertrude and John Wardle.
Marriage certificate details of
Raymond Wardle + Eleanor Joyce Duckworth (around 1945); and
Cynthia Wardle + Leslie Simpkin (around 1944)
To get any more information you would need to purchase the certificates. You can get the details you need to order them from freebmd http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
They can then be ordered from the GRO for £9.25 each https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
-
Eventually found family (thanks to daughter Bertha) in 1871 at Mendlesham but surname listed as Davy! As well as Hannah being one of the listed children it also includes a stepdaughter named Mary Ann Spiers. Looked for Marriage of William and Eliza and he married as William Davy to Eliza Spiers Mar.qtr.1864 Hartismere.
Annette
Suffolk 1871 Census
Address: Church Street District: Mendlesham
Eliza Davy, 34 (circa 1837) Mendlesham
Mary Ann Spars, 14 (1857) Daughter, b. Mendlesham
-
Suffolk 1861 Census
Address: Front Street District: Mendlesham
William Spere, 50 (1811), Head
Eliza Spere, 24 (1837), Daughter, b. Mendlesham
Mary Ann Spere, 4 (1857), Grand Daugh, b. Mendlesham
-
Suffolk 1851 Census
Address: Back Street District: Mendlesham
William Spear, 43 (1808), Head
Eliza Spear, 14 (1837), Daughter, b. Mendlesham
-
Can anyone please help me find the birth of Eliza Spears/Spear/Spere, and also the name of her mother?
Thank you all!
-
The 1861 census you have mentioned gives her mothers name as Mary Ann born 1816 Rickinghall Suffolk:
'Suffolk 1861 Census
Address: Front Street District: Mendlesham
William Spere, 50 (1811), Head
Eliza Spere, 24 (1837), Daughter, b. Mendlesham
Mary Ann Spere, 4 (1857), Grand Daugh, b. Mendlesham'
So possible marriage:
William Spears
Mary Ann Sheppard
Marriage: 02 Apr 1834 Mendlesham
-
Thank you sgf28! It's nice to talk to you again! :)
Looking at the 1851 Census, which is the oldest I can find her on (Eliza), and seing only her father and a daughter, I assumed that Eliza's mother died and also that Eliza was a single mother. It makes sense that the name of her first daughter is the same as the name of her mother (just this morning I saw the same thing happen in another branch of my family tree).
I didn't see the "mentioned ... mothers name as Mary Ann born 1816 Rickinghall Suffolk"...
I will try to find her death record / burial record.
Do you also find deaths/burials the most difficult details to confirm? ???
-
This morning I've been lucky! ;)
It's not easy to track this family because the surname keeps changing from census to census.
My initial idea was that William Spear's wife (Mary Ann) had died, and I found a death entry on FreeBMD of a Mary Ann SPEAR d. MAR qtr. 1860 at Hartismere (Suffolk), but it seems I was wrong, since I've found the whole family in the 1861 Census but with the surname SPIRE ::)
William Spire Head M 50 Rickinghall, Suffolk
Mary Ann Spire Wife F 45 Rickinghall, Suffolk
Eliza Spire Daughter F 24 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Hannah Spire Daughter F 17 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Henry Spire Son M 14 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Emma Spire Daughter F 9 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Deborah Spire Daughter F 4 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Mary Ann Spire Granddaughter F 4 Mendlesham, Suffolk
Nathan Chiles Visitor M 19 Mendlesham, Suffolk
(Source: FamilySearch)
(Underlined are the family members I am interested in. Now I would like to find birth, baptisms, marriage and deaths places and dates about them).
Any help, would be greatly appreciated!
PS: How would I know which one is the correct surname: Spear, Spears, Spere, Spier, Spiers, Spire?
And why does it change so much (a transcript error, or was it such an uncommon surname in the region)?
-
So possible marriage:
William Spears
Mary Ann Sheppard
Marriage: 02 Apr 1834 Mendlesham
Mary Ann Sheppard
Baptism: 04 June 1815
Rickinghall, Suffolk, England
Father: James Sheppard
Mother: Elizabeth
(Source: Family Search)
-
Marriage:
James Sheppard (single)
Elizabeth Williams (single)
Marriage: 10 Jan. 1815
Rickinghall, Suffolk, England
(Source: Family Search)
And it seems to me they only had 1 daughter (Mary Ann Sheppard)...
-
Burial:
Elizabeth Sheppard
Age: 29 (born around 1793)
living at Rickinghall Superior
Burial: 11 Aug. 1822
Rickinghall Superior, Suffolk, England.
(Source: Family Search)
-
Family Search gives several baptisms for Elizabeth Williams, different parents, and different towns/villages between 1792 and 1793...
Now I guess its time for the "elimination game"... Take each girl, note her father's name, find out if she married, and if her spouse isn't James Sheppard, eliminate her from the list...
Have fun! ;D
-
That doesn't work... :(
Because father's names don't appear on the marriage entries.
(She may even have not been baptized).
I've hit a roadblock!