RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: audbr on Saturday 02 May 15 16:07 BST (UK)
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Can any body help.
I know that James Joseph Audley joined the Canadian Forces on 5th January 1918, His next of kin is recorded as Bertha Audley and he was born 1st July 1890. They were living at 81 Cazalais Street, Montreal.
Can anybody please tell me:
where and when they married?
Where James Joseph Audley was born; I cannot finf him in the Brith indexes of England?
Who were James Joseph Audley's parents?
Thanks in anticipation of your help
Regards
Brian
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Very strange - he gives his date of birth as 1st July 1890, so should appear in the September quarter on Freebmd, but the only male born then was Edwin Audley in Birmingham.
In 1921 he gives his date of immigration as 1910, but I can't find him in the immigration lists.
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You may need to purchase his death cert ???
James Joseph Audley
Death Date: 25 May 1965
Cemetery: Brookside Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Winnipeg, Greater Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Has Bio?: N
Cemetery: Brookside Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Winnipeg, Greater Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Not sure what "Has Bio" means
Annie
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Information about the burial can be found here http://winnipeg.ca/ppd/cemeteries/Brookside/BrooksideAQ_AZ.html
His wife Bertha is also buried there, she died 2nd Nov 1981.
There are two other Audleys there that could be family, so it might be worth trying to trace them:
Arthur Herbert Audley died 11th Sept 1974
James Franklin Audley died 18th May 1952
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There are no parents mentioned on the obituary for James Joseph Audley.
The mention of the burial above - Interment was in a military plot according to the obituary.
Sandra
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There was information on James Joseph Audley and bertha on a previous thread. Will post to avoid any duplication.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=557043.0
Sandra
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Looking at the 1963 Canada's Voters list there are two other people in the same house as James and Bertha - Arthur Audley and Beatrice Audley. If they are their children, one of their birth certificates would give Bertha's maiden name.
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There was information on James Joseph Audley and bertha on a previous thread. Will post to avoid any duplication.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=557043.0
Sandra
Thanks Sandra.......................was just about to post same ;D
Stated in previous post:
"Robert Audley born 1879, he emigrated from Liverpool, as an orphan to Montreal Canada in 1890
and his brother
James Audley born 1883, he also emigrated from Liverpool, as an orphan to Montreal Canada in 1890".
From the info. above in bold I would doubt he married in England (UK) ???
After searching every avenue here!!!
Always helps to give info. already found to save us "double trouble" ::)
Annie
ADDED..............There is also this post in which I submitted info.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719354.msg5634389#msg5634389
The info. I posted only stated residence in England.......................it did not state James Joseph Audley was born in England although he may have been ???
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I've just read the other thread as well, so I'm now bowing out of this one.
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The info. I posted only stated residence in England.......................it did not state James Joseph Audley was born in England although he may have been ???
Turns out he was born in England according to this:
1921
James Audley
Marital Status: Married
Age: 30
Birth Year: abt 1891
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Bertha Audley
Father Birth Place: England
Mother Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1910
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Manitoba
District: Portage-La-Prairie
District Number: 33
Sub-District Number: 1
Parish of St Charles
Township Number: 10
Range Number: 2
Meridian Number: E
Municipality: Charleswood
Occupation: Labourer
Income: 400
James Audley 30
Bertha Audley 21
Has dropped the "Joseph" though ???
Annie
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Thanks for all your replies; I suppose I should come clean as I started the previous thread mentioned in the list of replys to my message.
All the information I have on this James Audley is:
JAMES AUDLEY born Q3 in 1883 at West Derby. Following the Death of his parents (Thomas Audley and Catherine Golding) he emigrated to Canada as part of the ‘Home Children Scheme’. He sailed from Liverpool on the 18th September 1890, via Londonderry (19th September 1890) aboard the “SS Parisian” arriving in Montreal, Quebec, on the 27th September 1890. He sailed as part of a group of 18 Children led by a Miss M Malone as Matron. The group appears to have been known as Mrs Lacy’s party. Their destination is given as Kingston, Ontario, traveling via the Grand Trunk Railway. Of the Province of Ontario, Canada, living in an Orphanage in Kingston City, in 1891 (as James Audly). By 1901 he had been adopted by and was living with a family with the surname Brown in Wolfe Island, Frontenac, Ontario, Canada. The records of the Sisters of Providence of St. Vincent de Paul Orphanage, indicate that; James Audley stayed at the Orphanage for a year. Even though the name of the original foster parents is not documented he was probably adopted or fostered out in September 1891, as he does not appear in the list “Inmates in Residence October 1st, 1891” in the Register of Orphans 1879-1912. It appears he was returned to the House of Providence Orphanage, Kingston, Ontario, in late 1895 or early 1896 and re-placed with a new Guardian (Mrs. P.J. Brown of Wolfe Island) in January 1896. In the 1911 Census of Canada (The Census record notes that James was Born in March 1889 in England?) he was still living as a Farmer with his adopted family of Peter Brown, a Farmer and his Wife Annie, with their 2 Sons, who were all originally from Ireland, and living at Frontenac, Wolfe Island, Ontario, Canada.
In all references to him prior to and including 1911 he is referred to as James Audley.
My problem is why in his war records, and death records, does his name become James Joseph Audley and birth year appear to change from 1883 to 1890. He also appears to move 300Km from Wolfe Island to Montreal
I am currently reviewing the information on this person and I am currently concerned that we are dealing with two people and not one, and this is the reason for my initial message in this thread
Any help in resolving my problem is appreciated
Regards
Brian
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Hi Ammack,
I was writing my last post at the same time as you were writing your last reply.
As you will see from my previous post my concern is the name 'Joseph'
From the information in the 1921 census he is recorded as being 9 years older than his wife, whereas if he was born in 1883 he would be 16 years older than his wife.
I wonder if he deliberately reduced his and did not tell his wife; but where did the Joseph come from?
Regards
Brian
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One thing about the name..............I have ancestors/relatives who's birth certs. don't have a "middle" name.
They were however Catholic too who later had "middle" names.
My assumption is that the "saint's" name chosen when they were "confirmed" (as catholics) was then introduced as part of their identity ???
This seems to be the same person & like many people ages are changed to suit the moment/circumstances whether to appear younger/older depending on the need at the time ???
I think even ELVIS changed his age to join the US army :-\
Annie
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1911
Name: James Audley
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Age: 22
Birth Date: Mar 1889
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Adopted
Immigration Year: 1897
Race or Tribe: English
Province: Ontario
District: Frontenac
District Number: 69
Sub-District: 51 - Wolfe Island
Sub-District Number: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Brown
47
Anna Brown
49
James Brown
15
Thomas Brown
13
James Audley
22
To be honest, your..........
I suppose I should come clean as I started the previous thread
Should really have been an apology as we (many of us) spent many hrs researching info. which you already had from other's on here.
That time & effort could have been used on someone who had "NO" info. & needed help ???
Annie
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Please Accept my apologies if I have upset anybody and have wasted anybodies time.
In my defence I would say that the title of my message did say ' When did James Joseph Audley Marry?'
Perhaps in hindsight I should have been more specific with my questions and perhaps they should have been:
- Are there indexes or list of Marriages that took place in Ontario and Quebec?
How comprehensive are those indexes for the period 1900 to 1920
Do any of those indexes or lists contain the names James Joseph Audley or James Audley or spelling variation
If I can buy his marriage certificate and if he gives his fathers name or his age that would help tie in all the information I have about him or blow it all apart.
Next Time I put a message om Roots chat I will endeavour to be comprehensive and list all the information I have and try and be more specific about the information I am after
REgards
Brian
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Thank you Brian for your apology which is welcomed & appreciated ;D
We do get frustrated when we are searching old info. already found ::)
If you can understand that we all need a wider picture to get to the "root"......i.e. other info. which we can relate to a query to tie-in hence the reason for our thorough research.
We endeavour to do our best to get to the root but it is also helpful if we know what ground has already been covered on the path there as it saves so much valuable time.
I often put queries in different areas if my relatives emigrated to help across the water to tie-in their info. e.g. (Lanark, Scotland) & (Ontario, Canada) with a link to both so they know I'm researching from both areas. People in Canada who have my relatives would probably be seeking info. from the Lanark, Scotland side i.e. it can easily be tied together.
Don't be put off by our annoyance as we love the challenges as long as we are not supplying info. already found :P
Annie
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The marriage......
From the Drouin Collection (indexed as Andley)
In Montreal at Calvin Presbyterian Church
On 17 July 1917
James Joseph Audley, Bachelor, son of Mr Audley and his wife Annie deceased
to
Bertha Florence Mary Bromley, Spinster and Minor with parental consent, daughter of the late Herbert Lewis Bromley and his wife Mary Richardson
By Banns
Both parties signed
Witnesses were F A Knowles and N Shaw
I suspect that the mother Annie referred to is perhaps Mrs Brown, adoptive mother? There being no first name for the father, perhaps James didn't know or remember? He was very young when Thomas and Catherine died.
It appears that the Wm Ford living at 81 Cazalais ca. 1917 may have been/became the second husband of Bertha's mother. William and Florence are living next door to James and Bertha in the 1921 census. Bertha's siblings are down as stepsons to William.
I have not been able to find a marriage for William and Florence at this point.
Herbert Lewis Bromley appears to have married Florence Mary Richardson in 1898 (FreeBMD; both names on the page). Herbert Lewis Bromley died in Montreal in 1912 and is buried in Mount Royal Cemetery (Find a Grave).
PB
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Thanks polarbear; that is exactly the information I was after.
It seems that all the information I have of him from 1911 and earlier refer to him as James Audley and all the information about him from his marriage in 1917 and later as refer to him as James Joseph Audley. It looks as though I am dealing with one person here. (but not 100% sure)
Interestingly his parents were married in a Church of England Church; he appears to have become recorded as Roman Catholic, in orphanage records, and married in a Presbyterian Church.
It is ufortunate that the record was indexed as Andley, it is not the first time I have seen Audley records indexed as Andley, I will try and remember to add that fact to my next message
Many thanks, polarbear for the information
Regards
Brian
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You are very welcome :).
If your local public library subscribes to Ancestry Library Edition, you would have access to the original image of the marriage record. Or if you have a world sub, it would also be accessible that way.
PB
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Both names had a transcription error ???
Name:Andley
Spouse: Bromby
Event: Mariage (Marriage)
Marriage Year: 1917
Marriage Location: Montréal, Québec (Quebec)
Religion: Presbyterian
Place of Worship or Institution: Presbyterian Calvin
Annie
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Hi Polar Bear,
I only have access to European Records in Ancestry. I will enquire if my local library has library edition access. Two of us are currently attempting to compile a list of all the people with the Audley surname who fought in WW1 and putting that information onto the website www.audleyfamilyhistory.com
This James Joseph Audley is one of the four Canadians with the Audley Surname who fought in that war.
Hi Annie,
I think incorrect transcriptions are unfortunately something we have to learn to live with.
I believe I now have a lot of writing up to do tomorow.
Thanks to all for your help
Regards
Brian
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Hi Brian,
I sent you a Personal Message regarding the marriage entry........did you get it ???
Annie
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Hi Annie,
I have received your Personal Message and responded
Regards
Brian
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wow...so many years later and still the deception continues...( here's all I know.... no mention of or link to the other thread) I just reread your old thread where we worked so hard to find all your information, & now see many efforts repeated on here...
this question could have been asked on that older thread...and a lot of valuable time saved.
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I would just like to respond to J.J.'s comments above.
Yes I started a thread back in 2011 and if you read that thread you will see that no one could identify when John Joseph Audley married.
Four years later, in the hope that new information had become available via the internet I started a new thread asking for the missing information please read the subject of the thread 'When did James Joseph Audley marry.
Very kindly polarbear, in his first reply, answered the question giving me where and when he married and the names of his parents as written on the marriage record.
Unfortunately other people gave information about him that I did not ask for and then two months later J.J. comes in with his criticism.
In view of J.J.'s remarks I no longer wish to be associated with this website.
I will now log off from Rootschat and will never log on again.
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That was the subject line...Your actual query was in fact deceptive:
Can any body help.
I know that James Joseph Audley joined the Canadian Forces on 5th January 1918, His next of kin is recorded as Bertha Audley and he was born 1st July 1890. They were living at 81 Cazalais Street, Montreal.
Can anybody please tell me:
where and when they married?
Where James Joseph Audley was born; I cannot finf him in the Brith indexes of England?
Who were James Joseph Audley's parents?
Thanks in anticipation of your help
Regards
Brian
You knew who the parents were as indicated in the other thread in which I had to ask for the names of parents since information was not forthcoming. Although only a few posts may not show this...I and many others devoted a great deal of time searching for information for that thread.
We did it because we care about the Home Children & their plight.
The date of birth on CEF signup matched one census result. It named wife as Bertha. It was clear there were few other James to follow up on...as a small child he was rejected by his country and then by his first caregivers in Ontario. He may have messed up on proper documentation but likely didn't care all that much if it was right or wrong. Even in 1921 states imm. 1910 but we see no entries for that name...As for age on marriage as I said on the other thread he probably wanted to appear younger since his bride was very young!!!
We were often told by you our finds were wrong as well..."I do feel that the James Joseph Audley in Winnipeg is unlikely to be the the James Audley who emigrated from Liverpool in 1890 as part of the 'Home Children' scheme."
Thenyou were willing to follow any old Robert into the U.S. as the correct one...( but then you never mentioned to this poor set of people your person of interest had a brother)
"The death of Robert Audley on 29 May 1900, is probably not the Robert Audley I am after as it has been sugested that Robert Audley married a Hattie F Willey. and they had a child in 1901. I suspect Roberts surname changed from Audley to Audlee."
It seems as though James may have had had a nice life eventually taken in by the Brown family and marrying and having a family of his own.