RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: dean.wendy on Wednesday 29 April 15 23:37 BST (UK)
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We are looking for our family heritage of our great grandmother, her name was Fanny WELLS, or Frances, she was born in 1884 in Victoria, Australia, and I think the place she was born was Warracknabeal. We have absolutely nothing else to go on as she immigrated to New Zealand and so her history was never talked about. I have researched through websites and have come up with more detail but need some sort of confirmation. I think her mother was called Mary WERREY and may have been born around 1856, Fanny,s father could have been William Henry Wells. She may have had a brother William Henry HARRIS WELLS born in 1869. I have searched marriage records for her parents but have found nothing. She was very dark skinned with fine features so was biracial, when she came to NZ she had three boys they were quite dark but they never talked about their heritage so no one knows where the dark blood comes from.
I have also found a Mary Jane Werrey who was born the same time and married at 33 years old to Hans William Jurgen, they do have a family tree in ancestry.Com, so not sure whether that is an entirely different person.
If anyone could shed some light on this great family mystery it would be appreciated.
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I am looking for our family history which has been totally forgotton over the years
Generations. My great grandmother was Fanny WELLS or Frances, she was born about 1884 in Warracknabeal, Victoria, Australia. She immigrated to NZ in the early 1900, s married and had 3 boys, it was all a big secret and no one ever talked about the family heritage. She was more than likely biracial and was quite dark skinned very elegant with fine features.
Her mother may have been Mary WERREY born about 1856, and father William Henry WELLS. She may have had a brother called William Henry HARRIS WELLS born 1869.
I have not found any marriage records or death records for the father or anything for the possible brother.
However I have found a Marriage record for Mary Werrey marrying Hans William Jurgen she was 33, that may not be the same person. They do have info about that on ancestry.Com.
Could anyone shed light on this mystery as we would like to know what the lost family history is where the dark skin has come from.
Moderator comment - posts merged.
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Welcome to RootsChat Dean and Wendy
Do you have Fanny's 1884 birth certificate?
Cheers, JM
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Fanny and siblings born in VIC.
WELLS William Henry Harris
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place MELBOURNE
Death Place:
Year 1869
Reg 23804
WELLS Mary Eliz
Father William
Mother Mary WERRY
Birth Place S MELB
Year 1873
Reg 11118
WELLS Minietta
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place SA LE
Year 1878
Reg 18679
WELLS Ada Abagail
Father William Henry
/Mother Mary WERRY
Birth Place BULN
Year 1881
Reg Number 21625
WELLS Fanny
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place WARR
Year 1884
Reg 21361
WELLS Emily
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place WARR
Year 1886
Reg Number 14605
Sue
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Marriage of parents
WELLS William Henry Harrison Born Ohio
WERRY Mary Born Collingwood
1868 Reg#4630
Cando
Edit
This lister is wondering if the William H. H. Wells on the US 1850 census is the same the William Henry Harrison WELLS [born Ohio] who married Mary WERRY in 1868 in Victoria, Australia?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WELLS/1997-12/0881218917
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Birth
WERRY Lizzie
Father Not recorded Mother Mary WERRY
At Richmond 1868 Reg#11710
Death
WERRY Lizzie Mother Mary WERRY
1868 2 Days Born Richmond Reg#4973
Cando
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WELLS William Henry Harrison.
Wurruk Wurruk
Gazetted 27 Jun 1879 Victorian Government Gazette Page#1673
Insolvency Notices
Wurruk is near Sale which ties in with the place of birth for Minietta in 1878.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article170497973
The Advocate 28 Jun 1879
William Henry Harrison Wells, of Sale, woodcarter. Liabilities, £38 17s. Id.; assets, £3 6s.
Cando
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Death
WELLS Mary Elizabeth
Father Henry WERREY Mother Elizabeth AURTHUR
At Port Melbourne 39 years 1891 Reg#3365
More than likely the marriage of their son
WELLS William Henry Harrison Born Melbourne
WEBB Josephine Frances Born Albury
1896 Reg# 7202
Birth
6057/1874
WEBB Josephine F
Father Thomas H Mother Maria
District Albury
Cando
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I would suggest this is her baptism
WARRAY Mary
Father Henry Mother Elizabeth
At Collingwood 1850 Reg#26682
Denomination Church of England, Parish St Peter's, Melbourne Fiche#390
WARRAY Mary.
Baptism 6 Jul 1850
Place Collingwood Swamp, Victoria
Father Henry, Labourer
Mother Elizabeth
St Peter's Church of England, Eastern Hill, Melbourne baptisms 1843-1853
Cando
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Some more....
Deaths
WARRAY David
Father Henry Mother Elizabeth ARTHUR
At Collingwood 1854 4 Months Reg#5017
WERRY Henry
Father John Mother Mary
1968 62 years Born Cornwall Reg#6067
WERREY Elizabeth
Father ARTHUR Mother Not recorded
At Warragul 1883 70 years Reg#3865
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Sep 1841
WARRAY Henry Redruth 9/277
ARTHUR Elizabeth Redruth 9/277
Cando
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So if Mary's parents married in the UK it seems unlikely they were Aboriginal, though not impossible they were Carribean or even African American... or perhaps Mr WELLS from Ohio was dark skinned?
By the way the term 'half caste' is considered very offensive in modern times. It generally was used to 'classify' Aboriginal Australians but also other indigenous people historically, and rarely with positive connotatations or consequences (e.g. a way of selecting which children to remove). An African American/white person was called 'mulatto' - again, not a particularly nice term.
'Mixed race' is also obsolete.
Biracial is probably a more acceptable term to use now. I appreciate you meant abosolutely no offence, but perhaps you can amend your post subject title and body? ???
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Brown Eyes, Dark Skin, Black Hair and fine features from Cornwall suggests to me a CELTIC Heritage. Similar to mine.
Neil
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:) Agh, "Black Irish" was a term used back late 19th Century in and around Sydney NSW and out around Bourke NSW, :) :) :)
May I suggest that Biracial is perhaps too specific (Bi = two) and "racial minorities" is another alterative.
Without going too far off topic, here is a link to an article offering "racial minorities":
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/riseman-racial-slurs-have-a-history/4722082
Cheers, JM
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A very interesting article on the Blacks of England. : http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/articles/the-ancient-celts-and-vikings-were-black-people-by-dr-clyde-winters/
Genetically speaking, nearly completely throughout the British Isles the races that make up the Modern peoples of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are very much Blended from Northern Europeans, Southern Europeans, Picts and Celts. The differences within even one family can be astounding. One thing in common with all is that if the predominate Gene is Celtic and the person is of a Dark appearance then they have around a 50% greater chance of a long term lack of Vitamin B12. Without proper medication IE Injections of B12, then in later life, they can suffer a much higher chance of Dementia.
I have done quite a bit of research on the subject.
Neil
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Back on track :)
Mmm would be interesting to compare this certificate with the 1868 marriage to Mary WERREY
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Dec 1864
WELLS William Henry Harrison Portsea Is 2b/687
BARRETT Eliza Portsea Is 2b/687
Death
WELLS William Henry Harrison
Father Unknown Mother Unknown
At Melbourne South 1902 72 years Reg#6658
Cando
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From reply#3
Edit
This lister is wondering if the William H. H. Wells on the US 1850 census is the same the William Henry Harrison WELLS [born Ohio] who married Mary WERRY in 1868 in Victoria, Australia?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WELLS/1997-12/0881218917
Firstly the age is wrong as Wm H H was 72 when he died in 1902 so born c1830.
Secondly, the above man is still living in the same household in 1870 US Census.
Cando
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My great grandmother was Fanny WELLS or Frances, she was born about 1884 in Warracknabeal, Victoria, Australia.
Until 1885 the town was known as Werrecknabeal. Fanny's birth registration shows she was born at WARR. This could be Warragal, Warrnambool or Warrion. The abbreviation for Warracknabeal is usually WBEAL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warragul
Remember Mary's mother died at Warragul in 1885.
WERREY Elizabeth
Father ARTHUR Mother Not recorded
At Warragul 1883 70 years Reg#3865
You need some certificates.
Images of certs can be purchased online for AUD$21 and immediately.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image
Cando
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WELLS William Henry Harris
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place MELBOURNE
Death Place:
Year 1869
Reg 23804
Sue
Death in NSW
17683/1921
WELLS William H
Father William Mother Mary
District Liverpool
Sydney Morning Herald 22 Dec 1921
WELLS December 20, 1921 at Liverpool, William Henry Harrison Wells dearly beloved husband of Mrs Florence Mary Wells, aged 54 years.
Possible Marriage
10111/1902
WELLS William
CAMERON Florence
District St Peters
http://www.jje.info/lostlives/exhib/rabaulmemorial/alpha/w.html
WELLS, William Henry Harrison, Pte, NX27623. AIF 2/10 Field Ambulance, Australian Army Medical Corps. 1 July 1942. Age 32. Son of William Henry Harrison Wells and Florence May Wells. Panel 31.
http://montevideomaru.naa.gov.au/pows-internees/index.aspx?id=5028
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
His file has been digitised and includes a photograph.
Death of NOK his sister Vera.
35944/1967
HICKEY Vera Berniece Rhoda
Father William Henry Harrison Mother Florance May
District Sydney
And Vera's grand daughter is a member of rootschat ;D.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719190.0
Cando
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Hi dean.wendy :)
Have we helped you at all?
You have been logged into rootschat. Perhaps you are having problems responding.
Simply hit REPLY under the last post and type :)
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks for all your help, yes it has helped heaps, now I need to get the birth certificate for Fanny Wells that hopefully will shed some light. I wonder if it gives me the nationality as in where the biracial heritage comes from, then I will know that I am probably on the right track.
The fustrating part is that I have almost nothing to go on here in New Zealand.
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I wonder if it gives me the nationality as in where the biracial heritage comes from, then I will know that I am probably on the right track.
Surely the informative posts on the thread have helped with some possible explanations.
Could you please attach a photograph of Fanny ie if you have one. Save the photo to your hard drive, click on Attachments and other options below the post you are entering, then select the photo and Post.
Information on Victorian birth certificates
Date and place of birth;
name of child and whether present or not;
name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
date and place of marriage of parents;
previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
names of witnesses;
date and place of registration.
Is this Fanny's marriage in NZ
1903/1542
WELLS Fanny
SUTTON Alfred
Cando
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Hi yes information very helpful, no she married George Davis in 1910/12 in Wellington, NZ. So she would have immigrated to NZ in early 1900, s. She then went onto have three boys, one of them being my husband's grandfather, none of them are alive and they never spoke of their heritage. I am waiting on a copy of marriage records for her
But it appears that she may have changed her name to Frances Somewhere along the way.
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There is a good photo which I am in the process of getting hold of so will post that as you suggested, thanks for all you help so far. Sorry to sound vaguess, but haven't got much to work on. :)
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Possible arrival in Victoria. Assisted immigrants.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24
WARRY , Henry Aged 31. Per Duchess of Northumberland. Date Jan 1849. Book 4. Page 253
WARRY, Elizabeth Aged 28. As above
WARRY, Thomas Aged 2. As above
WARRY, William Hy. Aged 4. As above
Sue
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The immigrant couple, Henry and Elizabeth may have done stint on the goldfields round Bendigo after these births.
WARREY Elizabeth Jane
Father Henry
Mother Elizabeth
Birth Place COLLINGWOOD
Year 1853
Reg Number: 20763
Denomination Church of England
Parish St Marks, Collingwood
Fiche 326
WERREY Elizabeth
Father Henry
Mother Elizabeth ARTHUR
Birth Place COLLWOOD
Year 1856
Reg Number: 77
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87984082
Matrimonial squabbles at Bendigo?
Sue
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This looks to be the marriage of Thomas WERRY who arrived with his parents (see above) This couple had a number of children in Collingwood
WERREY Thomas (Birth Place CORNWALL)
WHARMBEY Elizabeth (Birth Place FITZROY)
Year 1869
Reg Number1133
Sue
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The following is about a Mr William WELLS from the USA who married an INDIAN and was made a Justice of the Peace by A Territorial Governor "OHIO" (later to become the US president William Henry HARRISON)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wells_%28soldier%29
It may be worth checking to see if any of his children were possibly named "William Henry Harrison WELLS"?
Neil
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This looks to be the marriage of Thomas WERRY who arrived with his parents (see above) This couple had a number of children in Collingwood
WERREY Thomas (Birth Place CORNWALL)
WHARMBEY Elizabeth (Birth Place FITZROY)
Year 1869
Reg Number1133
Sue
Death
WERREY Thos
Father Werrey Hy
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Death Place CWOOD
Age 81
Year 1927
Reg Number 5129
Sue
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So from Fanny, she is Frances Beatrice at the time of her marriage. Do you have this marriage certificate?
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Cando
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The following is about a Mr William WELLS from the USA who married an INDIAN and was made a Justice of the Peace by A Territorial Governor "OHIO" (later to become the US president William Henry HARRISON)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wells_%28soldier%29
It may be worth checking to see if any of his children were possibly named "William Henry Harrison WELLS"?
Neil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wells_%28soldier%29
According to the website, Wm died in 1812 and William Henry Harrison WELLS was born c1830.
The children of William and Wanagapeth were Anne, wife of Dr. William Turner of Fort Wayne; Mary, who married James Wolcott; Rebecca, wife of James Hackley of Fort Wayne; Jane Turner, who married John H. Griggs, and William Wayne Wells, the grandson of Little Turtle who graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point. Poinsatte, 31
Certificates are needed.
Cando
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Thanks for that will check that one out could be some thing there.
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I have ordered a copy of that marriage certificate so should have that soon.
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In Victoria you can purchase images of certs online and immediately download to your computer :).
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image
Cando
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So from Fanny, she is Frances Beatrice at the time of her marriage. Do you have this marriage certificate?
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Cando
If I have the right woman, she did not apparently use the Beatrice on the Electoral Rolls.
She is Frances DAVIS. She and George DAVIS in 1914 are at Wairama, Waikato
He is a station hand and she is married.
1919
The couple are at Onewhero Downs , Waikato.
Their occupations are the same
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Oh OK sill follow the link and do that thanks.
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And Frances Beatrice on the birth regs to 30 Apr 1915.
1912/10890
DAVIS Ellen Frances
Father George Mother Frances Beatrice
1914/9173
DAVIS William George
Father George Mother Frances Beatrice
Cando
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Yes that is absolutely right with information in Waikato, New Zealand, it does appear that she has dropped Beatrice, as I am not sure where that came from in the first place. But definitely Is our great grandmother. She must have come over on a ship in the early 1900, s. I can't however find any record of that.
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Is this her death?
1958/25951
DAVIS Frances 74 years
Cando
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Yes that sounds right, Frances had a child in 1910, which is our grandfather, funnily enough his birth certificate has vanished, I am waiting on a copy from BDM so will be interested to see who his father is, this has just come to light over the last week as well. Frances also had twins which were older than William George, one died at birth. The girl Ellen which we was known as Nellie apparrantly died young.
:)
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Yes that is definitely her death 1958, she is buried in the Te Awamutu cemetery.
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Yes that sounds right, Frances had a child in 1910, which is our grandfather, funnily enough his birth certificate has vanished, I am waiting on a copy from BDM so will be interested to see who his father is, this has just come to light over the last week as well. Frances also had twins which were older than William George, one died at birth. The girl Ellen which we was known as Nellie apparrantly died young.
:)
What are the grandfather's given names as it is possible the surname of his registration is not DAVIS? I can't see a marriage for this couple on the indexes. Probably wrong...often am when speculating ::)
1910/735
WELLS Henry Edgar
Father Henry Alfred Mother Frances
I can't see twins born who would be older than Wm George. Frances had children in 1910, 1912 and 1914 so when were the twins born. If they were younger then their birth registration is not available. Birth information within the last 100 years not available.
Cando
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OK this is getting complicated. So Henry Edgar which was my husband's grand father is correct, but we always new him as a davis. I have ordered the birth certificate so interesting. So the birth details that you have the father is a mystery. As far as we know the twins were in between Henry Edgar aND William. His name was Verdon Not sure the dead twins name. I wonder maybe with Frances name as Wells was this her birth name or was she married to Henry Alfred Wells.
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Sorry so we believe
The twin that survived being Verdon was between Henry Edgar and William, photos just had the three boys in them.
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Information was often given verbally to the local registrars and it is possible that when Frances was asked the name of her 'husband' she thought of her father's given name OR the certificate may have the full name of the biological father of Edgar. As Edgar was born before her marriage to George it would have to be registered in her name.
I cannot find the birth of twins in the years to 1 May 1915. If you knew where they were living at the time you could search nearby cemetery records for burials.
Birth
1910/735
WELLS Henry Edgar
Father Henry Alfred Mother Frances
Marriage
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Births
1912/10890
DAVIS Ellen Frances
Father George Mother Frances Beatrice
1914/9173
DAVIS William George
Father George Mother Frances Beatrice
Unfortunately the NZ death certs/printouts don't name children of marriages.
Is this your Verdun's death, if so, born 1916.
Death
2000/23832
DAVIS Verdun Raymond Date of Birth 13 Feb 1916 84 Years
Cando
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AND
New Zealand Electoral Roll
1946 Auckland/Onehunga
DAVIS Verdun Raymond 437 Queen Street Concrete Worker
DAVIS William George 437 Queen Street Labourer
Cando
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Someone has done a fair amount of research on this family see:
http://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_werrey
Neil
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Yes that is the one so, I will wit for the birth certificate to get here from Henry Edgar to see who she named as the father. So as you suggested the Henry Edgar Wells could be her father so that might help to go backward to confirm the missing links in our search for the missing heritage.
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Hi dean.wendy
I am thinking that this line of your family is important to you.
You have worked hard to find the truth so you will have the facts correct for the future.
May I remind you ;D (page 3. Reply #19)
Thanks for all your help, yes it has helped heaps, now I need to get the birth certificate for Fanny Wells that hopefully will shed some light. I wonder if it gives me the nationality as in where the biracial heritage comes from, then I will know that I am probably on the right track.
The fustrating part is that I have almost nothing to go on here in New Zealand.
It is very important to have the "basics" right in proper research.
If you would like some support with the process of the download, many here will be happy to offer step by step guidance.
It is actually not tricky once you get the hang of it. ;D
Sue
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Someone has done a fair amount of research on this family see:
http://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_werrey
Neil
I can only see this....perhaps I am missing something. :) I would think the information would be more detailed if the researcher had some certificates.
Mary Elizabeth Wells (born Werrey), 1852-1891
Mary Elizabeth Wells (born Werrey) was born in 1852, at birth place.
Mary married William Henry Harrison Wells in 1868, at age 16 at marriage place.
William was born circa 1830, in Ohio, USA.
They had 6 children: William Henry Harrison Wells, Mary Elizabeth Wells and 4 other children.
Mary passed away in 1891, at age 39 at death place.
Cando
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Yes that is the one so, I will wit for the birth certificate to get here from Henry Edgar to see who she named as the father. So as you suggested the Henry Edgar Wells could be her father so that might help to go backward to confirm the missing links in our search for the missing heritage.
Death
2006/679
DAVIS Henry Edgar Date of Birth 19 Jan 1910 95 Years
And if I search using just WELLS and the exact date of birth this is the result
Birth
1910/735
WELLS Henry Edgar
Father Henry Alfred Mother Frances
Cando
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Have you contacted Kasden?
And Vera's grand daughter is a member of rootschat ;D.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719190.0
Personal Messages -
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Cando
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Cando can you msg me plz.... re: Wells
lve also done a lot of the aussie tree with my group and think by looking at ur comments you 2 are from my tree :D
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WW2 particulars for Verdun Raymond.
Embarkation 1940 to 1941
DAVIS, Verdun Raymond. #26373
Pte. 20th Batt.
Enlisted at Auckland.
Labourer.
Addess c/o G. McCATHIE, Great South Rd. Ellerslie.
NOK. Mrs F. DAVIS, c/o G. McCATHIE, Great South Rd. Ellerslie. (mother)
Sue
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I missed this .....
she married George Davis in 1910/12 in Wellington, NZ. So she would have immigrated to NZ in early 1900, s. She then went onto have three boys, one of them being my husband's grandfather, none of them are alive and they never spoke of their heritage.
So you married into the WELLS family. When you wrote our grandfather I wrongly assumed it was yours.
Did Verdun or William marry?
Cando
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Perhaps this is one of the possible reasons that the family didn't discuss their ancestry.
Birth
1880/674
DAVIS George Joseph
Father Not Recorded Mother Elizabeth
Death
1950/26363
DAVIS George Joseph 67 Years
Frances' burial record
http://rid.waipadc.govt.nz/cemetery/cemetery_record_view.php?id=9227
and in the next grave - George Joseph - age at death is not an exact match for the birth year but there are no other George DAVIS births that match.
http://rid.waipadc.govt.nz/cemetery/cemetery_record_view.php?id=8416
Cando
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Mmm... So she had a middle name Beatrice that she didn't use and he had a Joseph. ::)
Sue
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Before his marriage to Frances, George, I think was here-
Regions Wellington, Manawatu-Wanganui, Hawke's Bay
1905-1906
Electoral Roll
DAVIS, George. Waiorongomai.
Station hand
Sue
ADDING-
This link gives some history of the station and the Matthews family who have owned it for generations
http://www.waiorongomai.co.nz/#!the-land-and-the-people/c1xaj
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Thanks for the further information yes there is definitely some mystery and secrets on both sides. But I think we are getting a bit closer to uncovering details in NZ. We just need to get to the bottom of Fanny/Frances Wells side.
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Just because the family didn't speak about their ancestry doesn't mean they were hiding 'things'. Did anyone actually ask?
I can't see any mystery about the WELLS family in Australia or the DAVIS family in NZ.
You could have found out simply by searching the NZ indexes. It is also possible that the descendants were not told...or didn't ask.
Just remember that people are not always honest with information on certificates.
Cando
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Cando can you msg me plz.... re: Wells
lve also done a lot of the aussie tree with my group and think by looking at ur comments you 2 are from my tree :D
Hi Possum b :)
Welcome to rootschat ;D.
I am not connected to your family. Members of rootschat help one another with their family research and I am simply just one of those members who enjoy the challenge of sorting out puzzling family histories. Chatter dean.wendy is your relative :)
If you make two more posts you will be able to message her using the PM system.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Good luck.
Cando
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Hi
Just want to say a big thanks to majm, Cando, and sparret and others for all the information so far on unraveling the Wells family history, now I need to sit down and try and start piecing together what I have. I am still waiting on a birth and marriage hardcopy so will see how we go forward from here.
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It would appear you now have two rellies on rootschat :)
Do return and type up the info on those certs along with that photo and we may be able to help you further.
I have spent a lot of time attempting to identify William Henry Harrison WELLS on the US census but to date not have any success at all using the information I have found on the web. Perhaps he wasn't accurate with his age or the informant on his death cert was accurate. I did find an unsourced tree on a subscription based website that had his mother as Abigail so possibly the owner had purchased a cert of two.
There are a number of William Henry Harrison WELLS in that era in the US.
Cando
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Questions from previous posts
Have you contacted Kasden?
Did Verdun or William marry?
Cando
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It would appear you now have two rellies on rootschat :)
Do return and type up the info on those certs along with that photo and we may be able to help you further.
I have spent a lot of time attempting to identify William Henry Harrison WELLS on the US census but to date not have any success at all using the information I have found on the web. Perhaps he wasn't accurate with his age or the informant on his death cert was accurate. I did find an unsourced tree on a subscription based website that had his mother as Abigail so possibly the owner had purchased a cert of two.
There are a number of William Henry Harrison WELLS in that era in the US.
Cando
Well, I suppose it is slightly encouraging that the WELLS couple, William and Mary did have a daughter Abagail Ada. Her birth is already listed, but here is her death.
WELLS Ada Abigail
Father Wm Hy Harrison
Mother Mary WERREY
Age 17M
Death Place WARRAGUL
Year 1883
Reg Number 3690
Sue
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Hi, so in regards to previous post, haven't had a chance to contact kasden, will do that in the morning, also Verden never married, William did and his wife's name was Joyce
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Hi so William and Joyce had 4 kids.
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Hi so William and Joyce had 4 kids.
Thank you. :) Are any of Wm's children interested in family history or have any family stories that may help you?
Cheers
Cando
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It would appear you now have two rellies on rootschat :)
Do return and type up the info on those certs along with that photo and we may be able to help you further.
I have spent a lot of time attempting to identify William Henry Harrison WELLS on the US census but to date not have any success at all using the information I have found on the web. Perhaps he wasn't accurate with his age or the informant on his death cert was accurate. I did find an unsourced tree on a subscription based website that had his mother as Abigail so possibly the owner had purchased a cert of two.
There are a number of William Henry Harrison WELLS in that era in the US.
Cando
Well, I suppose it is slightly encouraging that the WELLS couple, William and Mary did have a daughter Abagail Ada. Her birth is already listed, but here is her death.
WELLS Ada Abigail
Father Wm Hy Harrison
Mother Mary WERREY
Age 17M
Death Place WARRAGUL
Year 1883
Reg Number 3690
Sue
Yes I thought the same Sue....and I would say that Fanny was born Warragul not Warracknabeal.
I guess it would be interesting to see the certificates for the WELLS births in Vic to see if Wm H H's place of birth was the same - along with the date of the marriage and I wonder who registered the births?
Cando
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Cando can you msg me plz.... re: Wells
lve also done a lot of the aussie tree with my group and think by looking at ur comments you 2 are from my tree :D
Possum has been online, but not yet made a second and third post. :'(
Cheers, JM
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Just looked up my husband's grandfather's father re post on page 6, Post 18427,
Birth Henry Edgar Wells
Father Henry Alfred
Mother Frances
1910/735
Couldn't find anything here in NZ,
Looked in Victoria, Australia and found this record
Alfred Henry Wells
Father Alfred
Mother WALDON-Mahaia
Place Wood
Year 1865
No 5944
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I doubt there was a Henry Alfred.
Why is the birth registered in Frances' maiden name?
A Henry Alfred with the surname WELLS would certainly be a co-incidence of surnames.
Looked in Victoria, Australia and found this record
Alfred Henry Wells
Father Alfred
Mother WALDON-Mahaia
Place Wood
Year 1865
No 5944
Nothing to do with your family...and according to records in the public arena this man was living was in Western Australia in from 1900 to 1943.
WELLS Alfred Henry was born Woods Point, 1865, Victoria, to Alfred Joseph WELLS [born Dorset, England] and Mahala WALDEN. He was the eldest of their ten children. Alfred Henry WELLS married Elizabeth Jane CHAPPEL 1889, Victoria and died 6 Aug 1943 Perth, Western Australia.
Australian Electoral Roll
1903 Western Australia
WELLS Alfred Henry Boorara Miner
WELLS Elizabeth Jane Boorara HD
1910, 1912
WELLS Alfred Henry 76 Monger Street, Leederville Salesman
WELLS Elizabeth Jane 76 Monger Street, Leederville HD
Both buried here
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php
Cando
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Cando can you msg me plz.... re: Wells
lve also done a lot of the aussie tree with my group and think by looking at ur comments you 2 are from my tree :D
Possum has been online, but not yet made a second and third post. :'(
Cheers, JM
Possum to post on the thread just click on REPLY under the last post.
Cando
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I have messaged Possum with some help on how to reply. :)
Hope to see her back soon.
Sarah
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Yes I thought the same Sue....and I would say that Fanny was born Warragul not Warracknabeal.
CANDO
This might be the marriage of Minnie (Minietta) WELLS, not sure at all.
WELLS Minnie- Birth Place WARRAGUL
PIERCE Jno Birth Place BRTN (Brighton)
Year 1895
Reg. Number 7014
Although her birth place is registered at Sale (see above), perhaps she spent some of her early life at WARRUGUL and was unsure of her birthplace when marrying.
Sue
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Hi , I think that we are researching the same Wells family..My great great grandfather was William Henry Harrison Wells...a bi-racial American man who came to Australia and married.
Please contact me to share information.
Regards
Karen
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Hi My great great grandfather was William Henry Harrison Wells snr born in Ohio but came to Australia..his son ,also named William Henry Harrison Wells was my grandmothers father...I think that we are researching the same ancestors so please contact me to share info.
Karen
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my "Wells" come in with the marriage of Alfred and Henrietta Hodge, both born in Eng, married in Victoria, Australia 1877 and l have those families down, although at this stage still filling in some gaps.
many of my family DONT want our tree on places like ancestory, so lm jst doing what l can going bckwards from my direct line... Alfred and Henrietta had 9 kids... alfreds parents are thomas and elizabeth (brown) married eng, have date 1847 although 2bc and alfred was born 1850 (confirmed)..
lm new 2 this site and have dyslexia, so plz be patient with me
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lm also still trying 2 source Alfreds siblings, l have the hodge family bck 2 1790 and believe that is all correct as it has come from family bibles, so the hodge clan cld also contact me if they see the link ... lm still wrking on some of those branches 2.
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Hi
Great to see all three researchers of the family are working together now.
We will all look forward to watching the information come in from all sides and hopefully fill the gaps for one another ;D
If anyone has BMD certificates, the information on them will be very welcome indeed.
Kasden may be able to tell us more about WELLS from Ohio.
Possum, may I ask you (with the best intentions ;D) if you would mind using whole words when you type up your posts.
Some of us here find it difficult to read your welcome information when the words are abbreviated in such a way.
Sue
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So thank you Kasden and possum b for joining in the search for answers in my fathers family history. I am at present waiting for a birth record for his grandfather which I think would say he was born a Wells, and took his mothers name, father on the birth cert a mystery, hopefully more details will come in with the birth record hard copy.
I am in the process do getting a photo copy of Fanny/Frances Wells so will post that on line hopefully by tomorrow. So Kasden the relative that immigrated to NZ WHH Wells from Ohio was biracial, do you know what his heritage is.
I am also new to this site and have a very limited amount of information to go by, so there could be a bit of backwards and forwards to get the correct answers. Thanks
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Hi Wendy..yes I do know and I also have the certificates that you might need can you email me at *...I am happy to share with you all that I have about our mutual ancestors.
Karen
* Email address removed
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my "Wells" come in with the marriage of Alfred and Henrietta Hodge, both born in Eng, married in Victoria, Australia 1877 and l have those families down, although at this stage still filling in some gaps.
many of my family DONT want our tree on places like ancestory, so lm jst doing what l can going bckwards from my direct line... Alfred and Henrietta had 9 kids... alfreds parents are thomas and elizabeth (brown) married eng, have date 1847 although 2bc and alfred was born 1850 (confirmed)..
lm new 2 this site and have dys, so plz be patient with me
Hi Possum :)
There are 10 or 11 WELLS trees for your Alfred and Henrietta on Ancestry. As much as we would like, we cannot prevent other descendents or distant relatives posting family trees on the web. Ancestry is not the only site that hosts family trees.
I am having a problem connecting a WELLS family from Leicestershire, England with a WELLS, whom it has been stated, was bi-racial from the USA.
Are you sure you have a connection to Wm Henry Harrison WELLS or his family?
Hi dean.wendy :)
Perhaps you missed this post. Fanny's brother Wm H H WELLS and his son also Wm H H WELLS.
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2015, 01:59:28 PM »
WELLS William Henry Harris
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place MELBOURNE
Death Place:
Year 1869
Reg 23804
Sue
Death in NSW
17683/1921
WELLS William H
Father William Mother Mary
District Liverpool
Sydney Morning Herald 22 Dec 1921
WELLS December 20, 1921 at Liverpool, William Henry Harrison Wells dearly beloved husband of Mrs Florence Mary Wells, aged 54 years.
Possible Marriage
10111/1902
WELLS William
CAMERON Florence
District St Peters
http://www.jje.info/lostlives/exhib/rabaulmemorial/alpha/w.html
WELLS, William Henry Harrison, Pte, NX27623. AIF 2/10 Field Ambulance, Australian Army Medical Corps. 1 July 1942. Age 32. Son of William Henry Harrison Wells and Florence May Wells. Panel 31.
http://montevideomaru.naa.gov.au/pows-internees/index.aspx?id=5028
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
His file has been digitised and includes a photograph.
Death of NOK his sister Vera.
35944/1967
HICKEY Vera Berniece Rhoda
Father William Henry Harrison Mother Florance May
District Sydney
And Vera's grand daughter is a member of rootschat ;D.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719190.0
Cando
Karen I suggest you the PM system and remove your email address before a moderator does ;)
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Possum..I don't think that your Wells and mine are from the same 'tree' however I do think that Wendy's one is one of my great grandfathers sisters as I have her ( Fanny aka Frances) and all the other Wells siblings too on my tree.
I can certainly fill her in on the Australian branch of the family, including the origins of the dark skin....an interesting tale.
Kasden
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oops...I can't use my e-mail address??...sorry :-X.. guess I got too excited at the prospect of finally sharing info with Wells descendants.
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Karen you can communicate with dean.wendy by pm. ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php#personal
Please do not include personal contact details in postings.
This includes e-mail addresses, postal addresses, telephone numbers, etc.
The moderators will delete personal data.
Please use the Personal Messages (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Candos...will do that...sorry to have erred ;D
Cheers
Karen
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No need to apologise to me :) Just one of the guidelines for using rootschat.
Is there any reason you can't share Wm H H WELLS story with all of us who helped with the research. I am curious and bet the other chatters are as well ;D
I would have like to have found him on the US Census for you.....perhaps you have :)
Cheers
Cando
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no reason not to share the info Candos...just thought that it would be quicker this way, I guess too that I underestimated the degree of interest ;D.
I did not find William Wells Snr on the U.S census but I did obtain his Australian marriage and death certificates...and they tend to confirm what was always just a family 'tale'.
his cert states that he came from Cincinnatti, Ohio and given that his age was apparently 72 when he died he would possibly have been born Circa 1830-ish.
On his marriage certificate( of which he was the informant) his mothers name was simply given as the Christian name of Abigail with no other details or surname and his father's name was simply given as the surname Wells with no Christian name/occupation or any other information.
Remember that in 1830 the USA was still involved with slavery although I believe that Ohio was a free state.
The family story that has been handed down was that he was picking potato's in a field when he was knocked out by some men and woke up on board a ship (gang pressing by Whalers looking for cheap crew was common then).He jumped ship in Melbourne.
The very first verifiable info after that is his marriage and the births of his children.
It is my educated guess that his mother was indeed a slave at some point and that his father was a white man...how he and his mother came to Ohio I have no idea..nor do I know anything about his life in America..try though I may to find out.
The thought has crossed my mind that Wells was not even his real name and that to avoid recapture he changed his name in Australia and that is why I can't locate him in America, but that is only speculation and not in any way a fact.
Both his son and his grandson bore the names William Henry Harrison Wells...the grandson was my grandmothers brother( my great Uncle Bill) who died aboard the Montivideo Maru as a P.O.W of the Japanese in WW2.
Uncle Bill's father did marry a Josephine Webb in Victoria however I don't think there were any children..at least I have not found any to date from the marriage.
He left( ?deserted) her and came to NSW where he set up home with my great grandmother Florence May Findley (whom he obviously could not legally marry) and they had 5 children all dark skinned of which my grandmother was the eldest and Uncle Bill the second eldest.
All the children thought that their parents were married and they were named Wells...not so..all the children were registered at birth with their mothers surname of Findley.
There is more but perhaps that's enough of the story to digest for the moment.I would dearly love to chat with Dean.Wendy....there are pictures ect to share and Iam sure we'll both learn more about our mutual fascinating ancestor.
Karen
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Thank you Karen :) Certainly an interesting story.
What was his age on his marriage cert and birth certs of his chn? Were his details consistent?
Ages on death certs are not always accurate. Who was the informant on his death cert?
How many years had Wm been in Victoria/Australia on his death cert?
Cheers
Cando
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Well that is an interesting story, you certainly have more than us here is NZ, was Fanny/Frances part of that line in your family And do you have any dates etc. When I post the photo you will see that she was very dark skinned. She was born 1884, and immigrated to NZ in the early 1900, s, my husband's grandfather was born early 1910, and have just found a different birth father than the one that we believed it to be, and then Frances, s marriage was after his birth. So she may have been married twice? So this search has uncovered more than I thought.
I cannot find her on shipping records to NZ, but that is not to say they are not there I just may not have looked in the right place.
As far as the dark blood goes we always believed it was from America, and Native American and also African American (Negro) was always banded around but nothing in concrete. So certainly sounds like same family. Can't wait to hear more.
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Hi Kasden, have looked up information regarding the Findley children Mother Florence, so I can only find 4 on the ancestry.Com site.
Florence May Findley - B 1884
Edmund Robert Findley -B 1882
WILLIAM G Findley - B 1886
Ernest Author Findley - B 1880
Mother Florence, but no dad on this site,
I wonder where Fanny (our great grandmother) fits in.
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Hi Kasden, have looked up information regarding the Findley children Mother Florence, so I can only find 4 on the ancestry.Com site.
Florence May Findley - B 1884
Edmund Robert Findley -B 1882
WILLIAM G Findley - B 1886
Ernest Author Findley - B 1880
Mother Florence, but no dad on this site,
I wonder where Fanny (our great grandmother) fits in.
None of the above are Wm H H and Florence's children.
Wm H H HARRISON Jnr, Fanny's brother, had a relationship with Florence FINDLEY . The children's births were registered in the mother's name because the parents were not married.
The children of Wm and Florence would be Fanny's nieces and nephews.
I suggest you look up NSW births on the NSW BDM website
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
Cando
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I notice that Ancestry are finally acknowledging that the births, deaths, marriages they list as part of their resources are actually drawn from INDEXES prepared by others, so their index is actually at least an index of an index. The NSW BDM index is much more current, and is available without any subscription or membership. As I recall, Ancestry had been referring to their index as 'vital records' when in fact it was not a record at all, as it was only an index. So, it seems they have revisited their webpage and noted these are INDEX ONLY RECORD. ;D
Please, also, please, if you are considering ordering NSW BDM records, please order from official transcribers (cheaper, and same info as real deal cert), and in a similar vein, if you are ordering NZ BDM records, please order the print out versions, (these usually contain more info that the certificates).
Cheers, JM
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Photo of Wm H H WELLS', grandson also named Wm H H WELLS, taken in 1940. You can enlarge the page. Mmmm.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=4892092&T=P&S=2
Cando
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Thanks good information will do.
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Hi Kasden,
Very exciting to have certificates to add to our information.
Please do tell us every detail as Cando has requested ;D
Sue
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Hi all...yes Candos has it right :) William Henry Harrison Wells Jnr (b1869) is Fanny's brother...he simply has the same name as his father William snr who was born circa 1830-34 in Ohio.
But to add to this Will:H H WELLS JNR and Florence May Findley had five children as follows:
Vera Berniece Rhoda Findley but known as Wells...she was my maternal grandmother B:1907
William Henry Harrison Wells ...my great Uncle Bill who died (unmarried) in WW2 born 1910
Ruby..my Great Aunt
Hazel...my great aunt
and Edmund my great uncle
all now deceased.
All of these siblings were olive skinned and had kinky hair. They were all very good natured and had a strong sense of togetherness but like Wendy's branch of the family they were not told a great deal about their heritage other than their grandfather W.H.H.Wells snr was an 'African'...I can see how ,in those times, he was referred to as an Áfrican'......rather than an American.
W.H.H Wells Jnr died on the 20th December 1921 of Lobar Pneumonia and is buried in Liverpool Cemetery.His children were all quite young but what I found very sad was that the informant on his death certificate was his defacto wife and mother of his five children, Florence Findley, who was described on the death certificate as 'no relation to the deceased".
The wife who was listed on his death certificate was Josephine Wells nee Webb who he had not seen since before the 1907 birth of my grandmother, Vera.
Florence must have known all along about Josephine and given over the information .
His death certificate indicates that he had no children because all of his 5 kids with Florence were registered in her maiden name at birth.Unfortunately the children never knew that their parents were never married until they were adults and in Hazel's case it was when she applied for a passport to go on a cruise in the 1960's...they could not find a birth certificate for her under the name of Wells so an official at BDM suggested they look under her mothers maiden name...and bingo..there they all were !!..she was appalled and very upset....they were different times then. :)
Karen
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Wendy the children you mentioned finding on the Ancestry site are Florence May Findley and her siblings..although not ALL of her siblings as she was one of 7 children.
She was WHH Wells jnr defacto wife so her siblings were his brother and sister-in-laws.
Her parents were Robert and Florence Rhoda Findley nee Orpwood..I understand that all this information, especially with several generations of same names , can be very overwhelming..I can keep it straight only because I have been collating this information for many years now and they all seem very real to me... ;D
Karen
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Hi Kasden, that is a very interesting story, did you have a confirmed birth date and details of Fanny, s birth and who the mother easy. aLos was there talk of what happened to Fanny.
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Hi Wendy, Since Fanny is listed on both her mother and her fathers death certificate it is obvious that her mother was Mary Wells nee Werrey. The spelling of Werrey varies from Werry to Wherry to Warrey ect however she is most definitely Mary's and Williams child.
There have been no family stories passed down about her to my knowledge and as she seems to have left Australia more than 100 years ago anyone who might have had such knowledge is long gone.
I would love to hear about her life in NZ..Who she married and when/where.Her childrens names and dates ect..herdate of death and where that occurred...I have a family tree program that keeps everything private and in order and I do not use Ancestry or post anything on it...I find that Ancestry is not an accurate resource.
Fanny's birth year is correct but as to her exact birth date I will have to obtain the cert from Vic BDM.As you may well imagine I have been a constant purchaser of a multitude of certificates over the years and hers is another on the list :)
Please share what you can with me about her life...I love finding the family history 'puzzle pieces' that make the picture clearer.
Cheers
Karen
P.S My e-mail address is (*) if you want to contact me other than through Rootschat...I am happy either way to share info with you though.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Kasden
I am still waiting on a few certificates for Fanny Wells, so when they come through will let you know more. We think that she may have been married twice her first child is my husband's grandfather, then she remarried and had another four children, we always thought that they were all full blood siblings, so we are waiting on some documents for that. Fanny, s eldest child (my husband's grandfather) wife is still alive, she's 98, but she is as much in the dark as we were, as he never talked about his heritage. Fanny has a huge amount of desendants mostly in NZ And Australia, so will document it all and let you know soon.
Thanks again.
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Karen I have sent you a couple of pm's.
I have further information but before posting it would help if I could have the occupations of Wm H H and his wife Elizabeth WERREY and Usual Addresses on their marriage cert. Pointless posting research if I haven't the right Wm.
Cando
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Hi Kasden
I am still waiting on a few certificates for Fanny Wells, so when they come through will let you know more. We think that she may have been married twice her first child is my husband's grandfather, then she remarried and had another four children, we always thought that they were all full blood siblings, so we are waiting on some documents for that. Fanny, s eldest child (my husband's grandfather) wife is still alive, she's 98, but she is as much in the dark as we were, as he never talked about his heritage. Fanny has a huge amount of desendants mostly in NZ And Australia, so will document it all and let you know soon.
Thanks again.
Wendy,
When you say "We think" …..etc the team of researchers who have contributed here do not think that.
There is no record or evidence that she was married before DAVIS.
That is why her son's name was WELLS.
Sue
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Hi All
Attached is a file I received last night it is the birth record of my husbands Grandfather Henry Edgar Wells. This now has shed more light with Frances/Fanny,s birth stating Turner as her birth name at Warragul, Victoria, this Turner name is a complete mystery to us, as we all thought she was born Wells, with what you have all said regarding accurateness of birth records there could be flaws in this. I also have got my hands on a paper copy of Henry Edgar Davis,s (my husbands grandfather) marriage record with her name being Fanny Davis and maiden name being Wells. I now have a copy also of Henry Edgars death certificate and on this they have the name Turner as her maiden name? I have posted for you to dissect. Still waiting on her death certificate. There was talk which I must say was talk amongst the family that there was a scandel regarding a death so only speculating that her first husband may have been the victim, still trying to hunt down information from him, i am not so good with the researching as new to all the research sites. :-\
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File for Henry Edgar Birth
-
Death cert attachment too large will work on it.
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Hi wendy,
Just to get the dissection started, there is no TURNER and WELLS marriage in Victoria in 1906.
Sue
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Cannot see one for New South Wales either (I particularly checked as there's "Victoria" as localities in NSW).
Cheers, JM
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This might be throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, but there is this in NZ
Ada Lillian TURNER Married Arthur Wallace WELLS in 1904/3941
??? ??? ::)
Neil
Modified, Nah forget above she died NZ 1968 and he 1970
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Aged 26 in 1910....and stating she had married 12 April 1906, Carlton Victoria. So, can we find her in Victoria on any electoral roll? You needed to be aged 21 to enrol. 1910 - 26 = born abt 1884. So, she should be on an electoral roll for Vic in 1905 as TURNER :) and 1906 as WELLS. ;D
And, what significant event in Fanny's life happened on 12 April, in any year up to 1910....
Cheers, JM.
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There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
ADDED
There is a marriage of a TURNER to a DAVIS AND a DAVIS to a WELLS
-
1903
TURNER , Frances.
63 Rathdowne Street, Carlton
H Duties
No others of the surname
Sue
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There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
This ?
TURNER Frances Margaret
Father: George
Mother Alice Eliza COWES
Birth Place TYLD
Year 1884
Reg 6166
Sue
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Yes Sue seems like right one. ;)
Maybe a check on the marriages is worth a try on above
-
1903
TURNER , Frances.
63 Rathdowne Street, Carlton
H Duties
No others of the surname
Sue
So this could be a lead as the certificate that I posted was on this street and same area.
Also if I thought with further digging that that birth certificate was her I will definitely order it.
It states that Henry Alfred Wells the father of our grandfather was born in auckland, so If he was in actual fact in Victoria then he wouldn't be eligible as a kiwi to be on the Australian Electoral roll would he.
-
He was a British Subject.
There was no such thing as separate Australian Citizenship until 1949. I think you will find same for NZ. So, there's plenty of persons on the 1903 roll who were born 'overseas' as the British Empire was extensive and many had settled in Australia, even those born in NZ were found settling in Australia and vice versa.
Cheers, JM (Edit to explain a tad further).
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1903 - 21 = Fanny's age was varying on other official documents :)
Cheers, JM
-
1903
TURNER , Frances.
63 Rathdowne Street, Carlton
H Duties
No others of the surname
Sue
So this could be a lead as the certificate that I posted was on this street and same area.
Also if I thought with further digging that that birth certificate was her I will definitely order it.
It states that Henry Alfred Wells the father of our grandfather was born in auckland, so If he was in actual fact in Victoria then he wouldn't be eligible as a kiwi to be on the Australian Electoral roll would he.
Which birth certificate do you mean when you say this?
Sue
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1 Jan 1949 :)
New Zealand Citizenship
http://www.austlii.edu.au/nz/legis/hist_act/bnanzca19481948n15493.pdf
Australia Citizenship
http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/resources/transcripts/cth13_doc_1948.pdf
Cheers, JM
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There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
This ?
TURNER Frances Margaret
Father: George
Mother Alice Eliza COWES
Birth Place TYLD
Year 1884
Reg 6166
Sue
I have looked up Electoral roll in Victoria and have found the same name in a 1912 onwards one so probably not our Frances/Fanny
-
There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
This ?
TURNER Frances Margaret
Father: George
Mother Alice Eliza COWES
Birth Place TYLD
Year 1884
Reg 6166
Sue
I have looked up Electoral roll in Victoria and have found the same name in a 1912 onwards one so probably not our Frances/Fanny
Sorry Sue I meant this birth certificate that was posted earlier.
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The 1903 electoral roll shows Frances TURNER at Rathdown St, Carlton, so that entry in 1903 points to Frances Wells having prior knowledge of that address when she was registering the birth of her son in 1910. The birth registration process was informant driven, the registrar simply recording the information Fanny provided, relying on her honesty re her marriage, the name of the child's father, his own place of birth etc.
Cheers, JM
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There is NO Victoria marriage registration for a fa* or fr* to an h* or ar* searching without a surname in 1906....and yes I trawled the lot on my disc.
Just because Fanny said she was married doesn't mean it is true. At this stage I very much doubt it.
dean.wendy where did you source the information that Fanny/Frances was born 1884 to Wm H H WELLS and Elizabeth WERREY?
TYLD = Tylden is near Kyneton and Warragul is in Gippsland and co-incidentally where Fanny/Frances WELLS' born Warrack [not Warracknabeal] mother died.
Cando
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Birth
TURNER Frances Margaret
Father George Mother Alice Eliza COWES
At Tylden 1884 Reg#6166
Death
TURNER Frances Margaret
Father George Mother Alice Elzabeth COUVES
At Kyneton 2 Months 1884 Reg#1717
Cando
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I have looked up Electoral roll in Victoria and have found the same name in a 1912 onwards one so probably not our Frances/Fanny
I am concerned.
I have also checked, and I cannot find Frances Turner at that address in 1912, so I am not sure why you have formed a view that the 1903 enrollment is not your lass. To me, that 1903 sighting in Rathdown St Carlton Victoria is confirming your NZ 1910 sighting where Frances Wells nominates her former name as Frances TURNER and that she married in Rathdown St Carlton, in 1906 :).
Cheers, JM
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There is NO Victoria marriage registration for a fa* or fr* to an h* or ar* searching without a surname in 1906....and yes I trawled the lot on my disc.
Just because Fanny said she was married doesn't mean it is true. At this stage I very much doubt it.
dean.wendy where did you source the information that Fanny/Frances was born 1884 to Wm H H WELLS and Elizabeth WERREY?
TYLD = Tylden is in central Victoria and Warragul is in Gippsland and co-incidentally where Fanny/Frances
WELLS' born Warrack [not Warracknabeal] mother died.
Cando
Hi, So information regarding the above was only sourced through this site, yes I understand that the information Fanny has put down regarding her marriage is more than likely incorrect. Also coincidence Warragul as birth place has come up, being in Gippsland is another coincidence as I spoke earlier to someone whom she use to babysit here in NZ, and they mentioned Gippsland as being where he thought she was from. But he could not tell me anything else as very old and memory problems. So maybe Turner has no significance, and she was born a Wells. so who is the named father on my husband's grandfather's birth record. Henry Alfred Wells.
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I have looked up Electoral roll in Victoria and have found the same name in a 1912 onwards one so probably not our Frances/Fanny
I am concerned.
I have also checked, and I cannot find Frances Turner at that address in 1912, so I am not sure why you have formed a view that the 1903 enrollment is not your lass. To me, that 1903 sighting in Rathdown St Carlton Victoria is
confirming your NZ 1910 sighting where Frances Wells nominates her former name as Frances TURNER and that she married in Rathdown St Carlton, in 1906 :).
Cheers, JM
Hi JM Sorry I was referring to an earlier post name with the name quoted of Frances Margaret Turner. We had our wires crossed, I think that the Information above is a strong possibility of being our Frances.
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thanks for clearing up about the electoral roll.
I am now concerned about your question : So maybe Turner has no significance, and she was born a Wells. so who is the named father on my husband's grandfather's birth record. Henry Alfred Wells.
There was not and still is not any law that stops any person becoming known by a name other than the name under which their birth was registered. And, back in the 1800s, and even in more recent times, the actual registration process in many British Colonies means that the baby does NOT have a surname, but is known by the surname of their mum. So, if mum was a married woman, she was likely to have become known by her husband's surname, or if mum was co-habitating without a formal marriage, mum can still have become known by his surname. So, I don't think you should consider that there's no significance to the surname TURNER. When Frances registered Henry's birth she provided information that is likely to simply be 'safeguarding' Henry from any claims of illegitimacy in respect of his birth.
Cheers, JM
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1903
TURNER , Frances.
63 Rathdowne Street, Carlton
H Duties
No others of the surname
Sue
Sands & McDougall Victorian Directory 1904
CARLTON
Rathdown Street
63 PRINGLE Miss J. M. Trained nurses' home and private hospital.
Cando
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well found Cando.
Add, Jessie Maud PRINGLE ;D
:)
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1903 ER
Daisy THORPE 63 Rathdown St Carlton, clerk
Cheers, JM
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There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
ADDED
There is a marriage of a TURNER to a DAVIS AND a DAVIS to a WELLS
Just backing up a bit, apologies Cando if you have covered these.
Neil
Added and I did say Fanny TURNER not Frances TURNER. ::)
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So from Fanny, she is Frances Beatrice at the time of her marriage. Do you have this marriage certificate?
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Cando
I am a bit confused, this is a long thread and I probably haven't been paying attention. I can't work out where the original WELLS/WERRY connection came from? If the above is the correct marriage for 'Fanny', won't it name both her parents?
Debra :)
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Yes, it should provide the information that both parties gave about their respective parents, as well as information about themselves, and it should also give names of the witnesses.
Add, I should note that the above refers to the info I find on several NZ bdm PRINTOUTS I understand printouts are more detailed than the actual certificate. There's also ITMs that can be searched too, and there's some great NZ RChatters.
Cheers, JM
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So from Fanny, she is Frances Beatrice at the time of her marriage. Do you have this marriage certificate?
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Cando
I am a bit confused, this is a long thread and I probably haven't been paying attention. I can't work out where the original WELLS/WERRY connection came from? If the above is the correct marriage for 'Fanny', won't it name both her parents?
Debra :)
I think dean.wendy is waiting for some certs. Yes I agree :).
Cando
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There is a birth which I am not going to pay for, of a Fanny Turner in Vic Right time 84-85
ADDED
There is a marriage of a TURNER to a DAVIS AND a DAVIS to a WELLS
Just backing up a bit, apologies Cando if you have covered these.
Neil
Added and I did say Fanny TURNER not Frances TURNER. ::)
In Aus or NZ Neil?
Cando
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Neil there is no birth for a Fanny TURNER 1884-5 in Victoria. The only birth between 1883 and 1886 for a F* TURNER in Vic is the one I posted who died the same year as her birth.
If the events occurred as written on the 1910 birth certificate, it would have been a marriage for a F* TURNER to Henry Arthur WELLS in Vic and then the 1912 to George DAVIS in NZ. I cannot find a TURNER/WELLS marriage in 1906 on my disc. I doubt it happened.
Cando
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Here's a live link to NZ researching
https://www.genealogy.org.nz/NZ_Research_243.aspx
"Certificates
You will probably have a copy of your own birth certificate and perhaps certificates of other family members, but it is important to remember that a certified copy of an entry, (certificate), does not contain all the information recorded in the register. An electronic printout of the original entry usually contains more information than a certificate."
and
"Intention To Marry Notices
When a couple intended to marry, one partner was required to complete an Intention to Marry Notice for the District Registrar. At the end of each quarter of the year a return of these notices was sent to the Registrar General. The reason these returns are useful is because they contain information not recorded in the marriage entry such as the `length of residence’ for both bride and groom. This refers to residence in the district, but it may also be a guide to length of residence in the country. .......... Archives New Zealand holds these returns from 1856 up to 1956. ........The Intentions to Marry held at Archives New Zealand, Wellington have been card indexed under both groom’s name and bride’s maiden name. From 1880-1920, the Intentions to Marry can be accessed providing that the date of marriage is known. As an addition to this type of search for marriages the NZSG has produced a CD of all marriages with the spouses names matched for 1856 to 1956. This is a great help to find that elusive maiden name"
Cheers, JM
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So from Fanny, she is Frances Beatrice at the time of her marriage. Do you have this marriage certificate?
1912/2106
WELLS Frances Beatrice
DAVIS George
Cando
I am a bit confused, this is a long thread and I probably haven't been paying attention. I can't work out where the original WELLS/WERRY connection came from? If the above is the correct marriage for 'Fanny', won't it name both her parents?
Debra :)
I think dean.wendy is waiting for some certs. Yes I agree :).
Cando
Yes it is a bit confusing to say the least, so I am at present waiting for a marriage certificate for Frances and George Davis, so will be interesting to see who she names as parents? Will post as soon as I have it. So the name Werrey was brought up by Kasden, s side with possibility of Fanny being sister to her great grandfather William HH Wells, so her parents was where the Werrey came from. We need to wait now for that cert to come through I think to confirm those details.
Wendy
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so may I ask if you ordered a printout ?
Cheers JM
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Yes I did order a printout rather than a certificate, we will wait and see.
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So where did you source this information?
We are looking for our family heritage of our great grandmother, her name was Fanny WELLS, or Frances, she was born in 1884 in Victoria, Australia, and I think the place she was born was Warracknabeal. We have absolutely nothing else to go on as she immigrated to New Zealand and so her history was never talked about. I have researched through websites and have come up with more detail but need some sort of confirmation. I think her mother was called Mary WERREY and may have been born around 1856, Fanny,s father could have been William Henry Wells. She may have had a brother William Henry HARRIS WELLS born in 1869. I have searched marriage records for her parents but have found nothing. She was very dark skinned with fine features so was biracial, when she came to NZ she had three boys they were quite dark but they never talked about their heritage so no one knows where the dark blood comes from
dean.wendy
So the name Werrey was brought up by Kasden, s side with possibility of Fanny being sister to her great grandfather William HH Wells, so her parents was where the Werrey came from.
deanwendy
I think the name WERREY was initally posted by you and researched by chatters. I actually discovered that that Kasden was a member of rootschat and placed a message on her current thread on war medals about Wm H H WELLS Snr grandson who died in WW2.
Let's hope the marriage info arrives soon :)
Personally I think the 1910 birth cert info is far from accurate.
Cando
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Yes I think next move is to wait till that marriage cert to George Davis arrives as well as her death cert. I didn't think for a moment it was going to be easy to track the heritage otherwise I would expect that another of the family members may have done it.
Thanks for all you help everyone so far much appreciated see what turns up next.
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I think we would all like to see that photo of Fanny/Frances when you receive it :)
What did you think of the photo of Wm H H, the grandson. I posted a link the page on his digitised WW2 service file earlier in the thread.
Cando
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Yes, I agree that it was Wendy who introduced the surname WERREY. I recall I replied on a thread on the Beginner Board and then noticed there was also a new thread on the Australia Board. I can see where these threads were merged into one.
Yes, I agree that Cando noticed there were other RChatters who had possible family connections and they have also kindly posted to help advance Wendy's quest.
Yes, I agree it can be confusing, and I am becoming confuddled as not only is this becoming a long thread, there seems to be contradictions along the way.
Yes, I noticed that WWII photo too. I am interested to read Wendy's comments too. And of course I look forward to a photo of Fanny Wells.
This is the quote that I started out with.
:
I am looking for our family history which has been totally forgotton over the years
Generations. My great grandmother was Fanny WELLS or Frances, she was born about 1884 in Warracknabeal, Victoria, Australia. She immigrated to NZ in the early 1900, s married and had 3 boys, it was all a big secret and no one ever talked about the family heritage. She was more than likely biracial and was quite dark skinned very elegant with fine features.
Her mother may have been Mary WERREY born about 1856, and father William Henry WELLS. She may have had a brother called William Henry HARRIS WELLS born 1869.
I have not found any marriage records or death records for the father or anything for the possible brother.
However I have found a Marriage record for Mary Werrey marrying Hans William Jurgen she was 33, that may not be the same person. They do have info about that on ancestry.Com.
Could anyone shed light on this mystery as we would like to know what the lost family history is where the dark skin has come from.
Yes, waiting for the official documents should be the sensible course of action.
Cheers, JM
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I will post that photo of Fanny as soon as I get that in the next few days. Also photo did have some similarities but will not doubt get some opinion from you all, so interesting stuff.
Thanks Wendy
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However I have found a Marriage record for Mary Werrey marrying Hans William Jurgen she was 33, that may not be the same person. They do have info about that on ancestry.Com.
Could anyone shed light on this mystery as we would like to know what the lost family history is where the dark skin has come from.
(quote is originally from Wendy's opening post on the threads,)
I can see a marriage registered as per the Vic BDM INDEX for 1890, for a Mary Jane WERRY and a Hans William JURGENS. At a submitted tree that bride was born 1856 and died 1934 and her parents were George Werry and Elizabeth Thomas. That same submitted tree has Mary Jane’s date of birth as 7 Oct 1856 (at Marcus Hill Victoria) and her death as 31 August 1934 (Queenscliff, Victoria) and her marriage 23 Jan 1890 (at Geelong Victoria). Hans and Mary JURGENS children are listed at that same submitted tree, there’s seven children listed. (I would hope the submitter has based those dates on the actual information found by that researcher on official Vic BDM documents).
May I simply note the following, acknowledging I may well be duplicating information found elsewhere in this thread, but understanding that I have simply gathered it together in one post, as this is becoming a very long thread.
1856 Vic BDM births INDEX Mary Jane, daughter of George Werrey and Elizabeth Thomas, #12955
1890 Vic BDM marriages INDEX Hans Wm JURGENS and Jane Mary WERRY #161
1906 National Archives of Australia has digitised Hans’ naturalisation (October 1906) file. (six pages).
1909 Electoral Roll Mary Jane and William JURGENS at Beach St, Queenscliff, VICTORIA he a fisherman, she h.d.
1934 Vic BDM deaths INDEX Mary Jane JURGENS aged 77, #16335, parents as Geo Werry and Elizth Thomas
1934 AIGS (M122) INDEX, Mary Jane Jurgens, 77, 31 Aug 1934, Queenscliff Vic.
Cheers, JM
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Have two photos attached one is of Fanny/Frances Wells and the other is of her three boys. Left hand side is my husbands grandfather. Still waiting on certificates.
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Second photo is of Fanny,s three boys My husband grandfather is on LHS
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Hi
They are nice photos.
Fanny looks like a really bright and outgoing sort of personality.
Thanks for sharing the photos with us.
Sue
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Yes, I agree with Sue.
Wonderful smiles.
Thank you for sharing these photos.
Cheers, JM
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I certainly would like to see a picture of Fanny/Frances to see if she resembles her cousins (my grand mother and great aunts)...another set of cousins located years ago showed an uncanny resemblance to them.
William Wells(Uncle Bill) WW2 ID photo , while accurate, did him little justice( those sort of pictures rarely do) he was a good looking man and I have a nice studio portrait of him taken in his uniform.
Army ID photos made everyone look like they had recently escaped from prison ;D .
Kasden
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Blimey !!!!.....Fanny looks like my Grandmother Vera !.
Her sisters ,my great Aunts Ruby and Hazel, also had the same facial features but were a lot plumper than nan who was small and finer boned like Fanny is. She wore her hair the same way too.
I nearly cried when I saw the picture of Fanny she was so much like nan ;D..
How wonderful !
Kasden
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Wendy is it possible for me to get copies of those photos?.. I am very happy to send you copies of my photos too...I can see no room for doubt that Fanny is on our family tree and is indeed my great grandfathers sister and therefore my grandmothers cousin ;D
Karen
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Hi Kasden
No problems with copies of photos to exchange. I am just waiting on some more certificates, do you have any more information regarding Fanny on your Family Tree, was there any talk at all about what happened to her, as I need to be 100% positive that they are one and the same person. There seems to be a big age gap between her brother WHH Wells, did they have the same mother and father.
Would love to have any more info you have.
Thanks for all info so far it does sound promising, I wonder if you could post a photo of your grandmother Vera in the meantime.
wendy
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Wendy have you written down all the information given to you by other 'chatters on this thread?
There seems to be a big age gap between her brother WHH Wells, did they have the same mother and father
Wendy
Of course they had the same parents. Wm is the eldest and Fanny is one of his younger siblings. All posted on the thread. Perhaps go back to page one and you will see where Sue posted the births.
If you are still doubtful you could purchase this certificate online [AUD21] and immediately download. It will list the names of all the children both living and deceased, of Wm H H WELLS and Mary WERREY.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image
Death
WELLS Mary Elizabeth
Father Henry WERREY Mother Elizabeth AURTHUR
At Port Melbourne 39 years 1891 Reg#3365
Cando
Cando
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Hi Wendy
my pictures have long ago been pasted into an old family album and it was handed down to me but now I am going to try to remove them without causing too much damage. I also have a picture of 3 little girls (Vera, Ruby and Hazel) similar to your 3 little boys picture.
Yes they certainly had the same parents...Fanny is listed on both her mothers and fathers death certificates too...I don't have any clue as to why Fanny went to NZ and, sadly, I don't have a picture of her brother WHH (my great g/father) either....I wish I did !...There was another brother listed on both parents death cert.. an Albert Ernest Wells...I have certs for his marriages( he married 2 sisters) and also found his death cert all with the correct parents names ect on them but I have never been able to find any record of his birth in either Vic or NSW.
Kasden
PS In my delight at looking at Fanny's pic I erroneously wrote that she was my Nan's cousin but of course she was my nan's aunt....my mothers great aunt and....my great great aunt :)
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Here is what I have been able to do...they're not great quality because the pics are very old and have been badly stored but see what you think.
Karen
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Just another bit of info Wendy...according to a newspaper obituary on Fanny's mother Mary Wells nee Werry , (accessed courtesy of Cando :) thanks!) she died of Consumption....I think that her child Ada Abigail died not too very long before her and now wonder if that was from Consumption as well.
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Hi Kasden
Thanks for the photos yes Fanny and Vera are uncanningly similar. Its a shame that there wasnt a photo of Vera's father William. We have a very limited number of photos as this end nothing whatsoever of ones of her Australian family. So with the obituary of Mary Wells what year did she die and I wonder whether Fanny was quite young, do you think maybe that she may have gone to another home or foster home, and could explain the lack of information on our side of the family.
We have just received a marriage certificate for her marriage in New Zealand in May 1912 and she names her mother as being Mary Weesey (waiting on the marriage record to see what the written name was), I think that it is definitely Mary Werrey not Weesey. I have three records and all have different maiden names she has put down Wells, Turner and Weesey (Werrey). She also has named her father as being James Wells? So definitely born a Wells. Fanny also says she was born in Gippsland, Victoria. I have looked up BDM no records there with those names that make any sense. I would like to know what happened with her as I think it may explain all the descrepancies. My husbands grandfather was born in January 1910 in New Zealand father named as a Wells? So I wonder who the real father is. She names the father as being a NZer and that they were married in Australia, no record again. I think she may have beome pregnant and travelled to NZ to have the baby. Her second child Ellen Frances was born in 1912 same year as she married. The story is that the baby died young, birth recorded but cant find the death record? I think though that we are starting to unravel her heritage. I will get those photos printed off Kasden and will be in touch as I have your contact now. Wendy.
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Yes Wendy...I rather think that Fanny might well have been pregnant and left Victoria for NZ because of that.
The Turner name is a complete mystery to me though...no one of that name on my family tree. She was Fanny (Frances) WELLS when she was here in Australia.
Her mother died when she was quite a young child and she was only 15 when her father died in 1902 so I can see that she might have had no one to turn to.
There are many Wells descendants from her brother W.H.H.Wells here in NSW and I dare say there are even more that I don't know about from her other siblings.
I will look forward to çhatting' about all of this some more with you....and now I think that I will start looking for other WELLS descendants too :) :)...like Fanny, my ancestors seemed to carry some stigma about their family and I know that they were not readily accepted back in those days because of their mixed heritage...yet all the Wells that I know here were the kindest, happiest and gentlest folks..including my own Nan and great aunts Hazel and Ruby who I was fortunate enough to know well.
Karen
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wendy is there any chance of you sending those pics to me via my private email address as an attachment?..that way I can print them off.
If you don't have my email address please message me privately and I can give it to you.
Regards
Karen
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Just another bit of info Wendy...according to a newspaper obituary on Fanny's mother Mary Wells nee Werry , (accessed courtesy of Cando :) thanks!) she died of Consumption....I think that her child Ada Abigail died not too very long before her and now wonder if that was from Consumption as well.
All from this thread
Marriages Sep 1841
WARRAY Henry Redruth 9/277
ARTHUR Elizabeth Redruth 9/277
Birth
WARRAY Mary
Father Henry Mother Elizabeth
At Collingwood 1850 Reg#26682
Denomination Church of England, Parish St Peter's, Melbourne Fiche#390
Death
WELLS Mary Elizabeth
Father Henry WERREY Mother Elizabeth AURTHUR
At Port Melbourne 39 years 1891 Reg#3365
Death of Ada, the child.
WELLS Ada Abigail
Father Wm Hy Harrison
Mother Mary WERREY
Age 17M
Death Place WARRAGUL
Year 1883
Reg 3690
= 8 years
I can't help wondering if any note is being taken of the information offered by helpers here
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Her mother died when she was quite a young child and she was only 15 when her father died in 1902 so I can see that she might have had no one to turn to.
Karen
From this thread
Death
WELLS William Henry Harrison
Father Unknown Mother Unknown
At Melbourne South 1902 72 years Reg#6658
Birth of Fanny
WELLS Fanny
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place WARR
Year 1884
Reg 21361
= 18
Sue
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Hi Kasden
I have three records and all have different maiden names she has put down Wells, Turner and Weesey (Werrey). Fanny also says she was born in Gippsland, Victoria. I have looked up BDM no records there with those names that make any sense. w. Wendy.
Perfect sense
Birth of Fanny
WELLS Fanny
Father William Henry
Mother Mary WERREY
Birth Place WARR
Year 1884
Reg 21361
EDIT to enlarge below
You do understand don't you, that Warragul is in Gippsland
Sue
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I am just looking at some of my own family papers.
I have NSW ancestors where the girls were working fulltime by age 14 in the 1870s, and their daughters/granddaughters, nieces, etc were working fulltime at similar ages in the 1890s, 1900s, 1910s, even in the 1940s there's lasses at age 14, working fulltime.
So, I think there's no reason to be concerned that there was no one to turn to in 1902 when her father died. I think she would already be quite in charge of her life at that stage.
1903
TURNER , Frances.
63 Rathdowne Street, Carlton
H Duties
No others of the surname
Sue
Sands & McDougall Victorian Directory 1904
CARLTON
Rathdown Street
63 PRINGLE Miss J. M. Trained nurses' home and private hospital.
Cando
Cheers, JM
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I have three records and all have different maiden names she has put down Wells, Turner and Weesey (Werrey). She also has named her father as being James Wells? So definitely born a Wells. Fanny also says she was born in Gippsland, Victoria. I have looked up BDM no records there with those names that make any sense.
We have given you Fanny/Frances birth at Warragul in 1884. She is named on both her parents' death certificates. Her mother's maiden name was WERREY not hers.
I don't really know what to say as you appear to be ignoring the information that has been given to you from the Victorian BDM CD [not online but the information is the same].
Fanny wasn't honest when registering the 1910 birth. Having an illegitimate child was probably awkward enough in that era but giving information to the local registrar it would appear that Fanny opted to give inaccurate information. Of course the local registrar may have misunderstood her. All that aside Fanny gave birth to a son in 1910 and as there is absolutely no evidence of any marriage, the child was illegitimate. Just because she gave the registrar a name Henry Alfred WELLS, doesn't mean he existed....after all she said she was Frances TURNER before she 'married' Mr WELLS ::). She was 26 years old in 1910 and would surely have known what she was doing. Perhaps only she knows why she named her father James instead of Wm on her marriage cert. ::) ::)
To fellow chatters following this thread...I have found quite a lot of information about Wm H H WELLS Snr. I emailed it to Karen as to post it here would have only further confused Wendy.
Wm was a hairdresser [marriage cert], dyer, clothes cleaner and repairer [probably his wife who was a seamstress], nightman, carter and market gardener. All this about Wm H H really has no bearing at the moment as I am more concerned that Wendy is having a problem understanding the birth, place and parents of Fanny. It is all on the thread.
Warragul is in GIPPSLAND.
Cando
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Karen
I will send those photos through to you no problems, once I have done that can you send me through your ones.
I sat down today and printed all the information and am piecing it all together for me to get my head around, so it is all very exciting that finally the family will gave some long awaited answers.
Be in touch.
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I have three records and all have different maiden names she has put down Wells, Turner and Weesey (Werrey). She also has named her father as being James Wells? So definitely born a Wells. Fanny also says she was born in Gippsland, Victoria. I have looked up BDM no records there with those names that make any sense.
We have given you Fanny/Frances birth at Warragul in 1884. She is named on both her parents' death certificates. Her mother's maiden name was WERREY not hers.
I don't really know what to say as you appear to be ignoring the information that has been given to you from the Victorian BDM CD [not online but the information is the same].
Fanny wasn't honest when registering the 1910 birth. Having an illegitimate child was probably awkward enough in that era but giving information to the local registrar it would appear that Fanny opted to give inaccurate information. Of course the local registrar may have misunderstood her. All that aside Fanny gave birth to a son in 1910 and as there is absolutely no evidence of any marriage, the child was illegitimate. Just because she gave the registrar a name Henry Alfred WELLS, doesn't mean he existed....after all she said she was Frances TURNER before she 'married' Mr WELLS ::). She was 26 years old in 1910 and would surely have known what she was doing. Perhaps only she knows why she named her father James instead of Wm on her marriage cert. ::) ::)
To fellow chatters following this thread...I have found quite a lot of information about Wm H H WELLS Snr. I emailed it to Karen as to post it here would have only further confused Wendy.
Wm was a hairdresser [marriage cert], dyer, clothes cleaner and repairer [probably his wife who was a seamstress], nightman, carter and market gardener. All this about Wm H H really has no bearing at the moment as I am more concerned that Wendy is having a problem understanding the birth, place and parents of Fanny. It is all on the thread.
Warragul is in GIPPSLAND.
Cando
Hi Cando thank you for all the information I haven't been ignoring it just trying to get my head around all there is. I have printed it all out and now feel like the family will get some long awaited answers. I did not know that Warragul was in Gippsland so thank you for clearing that up. Thank you for all other info. Wendy