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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: misstinkerbell77 on Monday 27 April 15 17:48 BST (UK)
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Hello, I wonder if anyone could help with identifying this uniform please. The man in the picture is my uncle, Alfred H W Clark, 1900-1941. I previously assumed it was a Navy uniform (he lived in Portsmouth) but have been led to believe it may be a tram driver type uniform. I am convinced there are numbers or a badge of some sort on the cap?!
I haven't found any Military records for him and am stumped.
Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
Thank you! :)
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Definitely something on his cap, possibly something on the buttons of his jacket as well. Could you post a higher resolution scan of the photo? Might then be possible to make out more detail.
S_L
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The badge appears to be elliptical and all of the pics I find of Portsmouth tram driver/conductor hat badges are not. Also they are bright with brass. We see light reflected off the patent leather hat band so it would also reflect off the RHS of a brassed badge.
Certainly not navy.
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Thank you for your replies, it is appreciated. I am uploading the photo again having rescanned it. My equipment isn't the best I'm afraid, but I hope the photo will be somewhat clearer now?
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Hmm, not really a lot of difference there! Not sure how else to improve the quality. ???
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Hi, I think he's possibly Merchant Navy, he look's to have the anchor with possible crown above on his cap but I could be wrong :-\
Frank.
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Hi, I think he's possibly Merchant Navy, he look's to have the anchor with possible crown above on his cap but I could be wrong :-\
Frank.
Thank you for your input :) I haven't been able to find any military records for Alf at all. His probate listing doesn't mention any occupation, the CWGC has him listed a civilian war dead. :-\
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I was about to post the same thing. I agree about the badge. I wondered whether he was a port pilot. However, crown and anchor badge points towards Royal Navy. At the same time, the jacket does not look like RN quality.
Added: I have a vague memory that ships pilots belonged/belong to Trinity House, an organisation under the Admiralty. Just a thought.
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Was he born in Portsmouth?
S_L
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Was he born in Portsmouth?
S_L
Yes he was, in 1910. I have this confirmed through FreeBMD and 1901 Census.
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I was about to post the same thing. I agree about the badge. I wondered whether he was a port pilot. However, crown and anchor badge points towards Royal Navy. At the same time, the jacket does not look like RN quality.
Added: I have a vague memory that ships pilots belonged/belong to Trinity House, an organisation under the Admiralty. Just a thought.
This is helpful, thank you, gives me something new to look into!
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His death certificate should give his occupation.
I see he was killed as a result of an enemy air raid when a bomb fell on his home at 32 Garnier Street on 11 April March 1941. If he was head of the household at 32 Garnier Street, a contemporary street directory might list his occupation.
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Apparently 50 HE bombs dropped. No addresses given but otherwise list shows detailed dates and addresses. Blitz stopped 9Jul41. Had been running down since May as bombers transferred East for the invasion of Soviet Union. Started again 14Jun42 but as mere nuisance raids by small number of aircraft. One exception was raid by 91 bombers on 15Aug43.
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Sorry all, I got the date wrong in my previous post - it was 11 March 1941.
32 Garnier Street is listed as a bombsite here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.pomeroy/local/air_raid.pdf
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I accessed the same Site and didn't notice 11th March and the address together.
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Good evening,
It would appear to be a Merchant Navy cap badge, no rope around anchor. Royal Navy cap badge is a fouled anchor, rope twisting around anchor.
Trinity House cap badge is the armorial on a shield within an open wreath.
John915
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It would appear to be a Merchant Navy cap badge, no rope around anchor. Royal Navy cap badge is a fouled anchor, rope twisting around anchor.
John915
I have to agree with that.
Frank.
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Hi all. I am back looking at my Uncle again and the 'uniform' he is wearing. On the 1939 census he is listed as a tailoring presser. Im not sure if such a profession would have a uniform like the one he is wearing?
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Hi all. I am back looking at my Uncle again and the 'uniform' he is wearing. On the 1939 census he is listed as a tailoring presser. Im not sure if such a profession would have a uniform like the one he is wearing?
Not sure what you mean by the 1939 census.
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Hi all. I am back looking at my Uncle again and the 'uniform' he is wearing. On the 1939 census he is listed as a tailoring presser. Im not sure if such a profession would have a uniform like the one he is wearing?
Not sure what you mean by the 1939 census.
Ok, so not officially a census. The 1939 England and Wales Register - Initially taken due to the onset of war with the purpose of producing National Identity Cards, the register later came to be multi-functional, first as an aid in the use of ration books and later helping officials record the movement of the civilian population over the following decades and from 1948, as the basis for the National Health Service Register. The 1939 Register is an extremely important genealogical resource, not only for the rich detail and information recorded for each person and household, but also in helping to bridge a thirty-year gap in census data. The census taken in 1931 was destroyed during the Second World War and no census was carried out in 1941 due to the ongoing conflict. The register, as held by The National Archives, contains data only for England and Wales and does not include records from households in Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.
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This picture appears to have the same cap and badge, this fellow also died in 1941, his uniform is that of the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve. Compared to the photo that someone has enlarged it appears to be identical, John.
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John, thank you ever so much for your very helpful reply and the photo. I can definitely see the similarities between the 2 images. I wish mine was of better quality, I have tried playing about with colours etc to see if I can improve the image of the badge, but to no avail. I shall have a rummage about and see what info I can find regarding the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserves. Thanks again. Julie
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Hi all. I am back looking at my Uncle again and the 'uniform' he is wearing. On the 1939 census he is listed as a tailoring presser. Im not sure if such a profession would have a uniform like the one he is wearing?
Not sure what you mean by the 1939 census.
I have not been doing any more family history research from some years and I was not aware that this register was available now. I no longer have subs to any paid site and do not seem to be able to register at National Archives. It would be valuable to solve a couple of relationship poblems.
PS - I still remember my wartime ID number.
Ok, so not officially a census. The 1939 England and Wales Register - Initially taken due to the onset of war with the purpose of producing National Identity Cards, the register later came to be multi-functional, first as an aid in the use of ration books and later helping officials record the movement of the civilian population over the following decades and from 1948, as the basis for the National Health Service Register. The 1939 Register is an extremely important genealogical resource, not only for the rich detail and information recorded for each person and household, but also in helping to bridge a thirty-year gap in census data. The census taken in 1931 was destroyed during the Second World War and no census was carried out in 1941 due to the ongoing conflict. The register, as held by The National Archives, contains data only for England and Wales and does not include records from households in Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.
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Badge appears to be somewhat oval and bears the number 44. Merchant navy doubtful. Regards, ( ex MN Engineer. )
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Thank you for your reply. Wow, I'm impressed you can see a number on the cap as I can barely make out anything!
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On second thoughts could be something entirely different than'44'. I leave it to you to see if you can make anything of this enhanced view. Regards, Mozza.
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Oh goodness, I really can’t make anything out. Think I need to get my eyes checked :o. Thank you for sharing your enhanced photo
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Comparison of RNVR cap photo as posted by Hoobaloo earlier.....
I will leave it to the experts to decide if they are the same badge ...... :-\
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Doubt it makes much difference to what was originally asked but if that's a wedding band on his finger then that would allow you to put an earliest date on the photo.
S_L
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Thank you for your reply. He never married
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Comparison of RNVR cap photo as posted by Hoobaloo earlier.....
I will leave it to the experts to decide if they are the same badge ...... :-\
Thank you for posting the comparison. Would it make any difference that my uncles cap is kinda squished compared to the other gentleman’s? Probably a daft question, but I have no clue :)
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Comparison of RNVR cap photo as posted by Hoobaloo earlier.....
I will leave it to the experts to decide if they are the same badge ...... :-\
Thank you for posting the comparison. Would it make any difference that my uncles cap is kinda squished compared to the other gentleman’s? Probably a daft question, but I have no clue :)
That is just an affectation of the wearer as in anyone wearing an ordinary cap or hat or beret tilted to one side.
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Ok, thank you.
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I haven’t been able to find any RNVR records for my uncle who was. I have now got his death certificate, which states he was working as a tailors presser (he was one of many civilian war dead). I think I may have come across a brick wall with regards what he was wearing and why.
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One from me
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Thank you so much, what a wonderful job! I am very grateful for your time and effort. Thank you!