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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Peonyau on Saturday 25 April 15 15:43 BST (UK)
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Her married name was Ellen Elizabeth Leonard. Her maiden name may have been Slattery. She lived in Albury and Melbourne. Died in Melbourne between 1930 and 1942 but death has not been confirmed. May have married in Adelaide.
Only had one son who was my Grandfather. He married twice first to Eva Montgomery and then to Edna Hille Wood.
Two daughters and a son(died in infancy) to Eva.
Ellen worked for the Baillieu family as a house maid/cook.
Was related to the Moores and the Irelands
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Could you say when Stanley was born, please, and who his father was?
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WW1 enlistment #2518
LENARD Stanley John b. Albury NOK wife Evangle
WW2 enlistment #N377279
LEONARD Stanley John b. Albury 8 Sep 1889
Possibly this family?
BDM NSW birth
18240 / 1887 LEONARD Stella M ps Edward / Ellen Blayney
2159 / 1888 LENARD Dudley ps Edward / Helen Blayney
10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury
16979 / 1896 LEONARD Clara T ps Edward / Ellen Temora
35051 / 1898 LEONARD Margaret E ps Edward / Ellen Temora
39664 1906 LEONARD Annie M ps Edward / Ellen Temora
9779 / 1911 LEONARD William H ps Edward / Ellen Temora
BDM NSW deaths
3797 / 1888 LENARD Dudley ps Edward / Ellen Glebe
1204 / 1910 LEONARD Margaret E ps Edward / Ellen Cootamundra
6510 / 1958 LEONARD Edward James ps Edward / Ellen Forbes
27735 / 1966 LEONARD Arthur Harold ps Edward / Ellen Mudgee
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Thanks to Wivenhoe and Chempat for your interest and help.
WW1 enlistment #2518
LENARD Stanley John b. Albury NOK wife Evangle...This is my Grandfather and Grandmother. The name changes throughout the war records. And his registration no. changes too.
I have found relatives from his other family and the parental story is that his parents were killed in a car accident and he was bought up by an Aunt.
He has obfuscated his birth info and name to cover his tracks - as he walked out on Eva and the girls.
When his mother/aunt Ellen Elizabeth Leonard/Elizabeth Ellen Leonard/Helen???? died the police visited Eva to ask for money for her funeral. My mother was a young girl and remembers this so it could have been between 1930 and 1942 Melbourne. She was buried as a pauper. I don't know why Stanley who was still alive in Albury didn't bury her. I found a death at a hospital that matched her in 1942 but Mum says at that time she was 22 and that is too late.
The birth to Helen/Edward 10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury
This maybe the birth. The spelling of the name is the same as his second war record. Whether this was a mistake or on purpose I'm not sure. He has lied with other details so its hard to know what the truth is. Will look at my certificates later today, before ordering more. And have asked other family for more details. The matter is very sensitive in view of the other family.
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A possible marriage for the couple named Edward and Ellen/aka Helen??
6139/1886 MUDGEE
LEONARD Edward to CORBETT Ellen
Essie
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You need to see this birth certificate -
10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury
It will give good information about family. I think the information you are using to research this family might be very compromised by family estrangement, and the questionable value of memories from long ago.
LENARD / LEONARD are reasonable variations on the family name, and would suggest uncertainty about the spelling, rather than intention to........concealment, evasion etc.
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There was a death in Melbourne for an Elizabeth Ellen LENARD at R PARK in 1942 aged 81y.
Her parents named George IRELAND and Elizabeth nee WAITES
Reg #823
Essie
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There was a death in Melbourne for an Elizabeth Ellen LENARD at R PARK in 1942 aged 81y.
Her parents named George IRELAND and Elizabeth nee WAITES
Reg #823
Essie
Essie
This would be the death which OP says cannot be her as his mother’s recollection was from childhood (see above
LENARD Elizth Ellen
Father:Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITES
Death Place R PARK
Age 81
Year: 1942
Reg 823
Royal Park is a psychiatric Hospital.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Park_Hospital
Sue
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I am putting up this death, though it does not fit many of the circumstances you have described, Peonyau.
There is always the possibility that marriage had not taken place and the child Stanely , was "known as " surname Leonard/Lennard for any one of a number of reasons.
I do not see a birth in Albury for him.
Death Victoria
SLATTERY Ellen Elizth
Father SlATTERY Jno
Mother Ellen OSHEA
Death Place S KILDA
Age 53
Year 1929
Reg 3284
Sue
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Sue, an interesting SLATTERY death.....
Essie
This would be the death which OP says cannot be her as his mother’s recollection was from childhood ... Sue
Yes, I posted that death because these surnames were mentioned in the first post, ... Was related to the Moores and the Irelands; and may instead refer to the "Aunt" in Reply #3 and not the mother.
If Stanley John died at Albury, reg 1650/1963, then his parents were recorded as John and Elizabeth.
Essie
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Uninformative death notice for the woman I have listed above .
Tuesday 5 February 1929. Argus
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3996675
Sue
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WW1 enlistment #2518
LENARD Stanley John b. Albury NOK wife Evangle...This is my Grandfather and Grandmother. The name changes throughout the war records. And his registration no. changes too.
The digitised file is available for all to read. The attestation papers are completed by a third party. Information given verbally and this would explain the reason for the variation on the spelling of his surname. He signed his surname LENARD. Stanley was transferred to another Company during WW1 and this may be the reason for the differing/additional service number. The second file on NAA which is not digitised relates to War Pensions. And then his WW2 file.
I also note in his WW1 service file his time as an apprentice to a firm in Melbourne.
You could purchase this certificate online [$21] and immediately download.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image
This would give the name of his parents.
Marriage in Victoria.
LEONARD Stanley born Albury
MONTGOMERY Evangel born Melbourne.
1911 Reg#10923
Cando
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This is the birth of a son to George IRELAND and Elizabeth WAITE.
There are some other births and deaths which I will put up in a moment.
IRELAND Francis William
Father George
Mother Elizabeth WATE
Birth Place WOOD
Year 1865
Reg 12466
In the death of this man we see second given names for his parents.
IRELAND Francis Wm
Ireland Geo Hy
Mother Elizth Ellen WAITES
Age 53
Death Place Ncote
Year 1918
Reg. 6232
Here is the death of mother Elizabeth
IRELAND Elizth
Father WAITES Geo
Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 79
Death Place Preston
Year 1902
Reg. 3206
Sue
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Is this Evangel's birth
MONGTGOMERIE Caroline Minnie
Father Albert Mother's name Caroline BICKFORD
At Fitzroy 1887 Reg#19502
Australian Electoral Roll
1914
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangel Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Elizabeth Ellen Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Stanley Swan Island Soldier
Cando
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Here are some deaths of the probable siblings of Ellen Elizabeth (nee IRELAND)
BROWNNUT Martha
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITS
Death Place PRESTON
Ag 62
Year 1921
Reg Number 3289
LA FRANCHI May
Ireland Geo Hy
Mother Elizth WAITES
Death Place NCOTE
Age 77
Year 1931
Reg Number 15863
MCKEE Hannah
Father Ireland George
Mother Elizth WAITES
Death Place COBURG
Age 73
Year 1928
Reg Number 1195
MOORE Agnes
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITS
Death Place NCOTE
Age 82
Year 1934
Reg Number 2635
IRELAND Jordon
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITE
Death Place:DNONG
Age 74
Year 1930
Reg Number 13346
IRELAND Geo Hy
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Eliz WAITES
Death Place:PRAHRAN
Age 80
Year:1943
Reg Number 12559
HAMILTON Mary Jane
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WATES
Death Place REGENT
Age 80
Year 1946
Reg Number: 11967
And as listed-
LENARD Elizth Ellen
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITES
Death Place R PARK
Age 81
Year 1942
Reg Number: 823
Sue
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I think that the 1942 death in Vic is Stanley's mother. Family stories are often incorrect.
Possible marriage of parents in England - couldn't find anything in Aus.
Marriages Dec 1846
IRELAND George Pocklington 23/162
WAITES Elizabeth Pocklington 23/162
Cando
And I think this is her birth
Births Dec 1859
IRELAND Elizabeth Pocklington 9d/64
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This earlier death of a sister of ELLEN ELIZABETH
RALSTON Ruth
Father Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WATES
Age 40
Preston
Year 1891
Reg 7861
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8629288
Funeral notice for Ruth RALSTON sister of ELLEN?
Clutching at straws a bit, but there was a little boy born to Ruth RALSTON at about the right time to match the given birthdate of Stanley. Not at Albury though :-\
Wondering....
RALSTON Norman
Father Gavin
Mother Ruth IRELAND
Birth Place PRESTON
Year 1890
Reg. Number 35588
Sue
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I searched all the larger cemeteries in Metropolitan Melbourne and this is possibly her burial record at Springvale.
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php
LENNARD Elizabeth
Church of England, Compartment D, Section 22, Grave 10
Date of Service 27 Jan 1942
Cando
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Well,
Perhaps she was just known by Helen as well as Ellen and Elizabeth and Wivenhoe's original finding must be the correct birth. ::)
10743/1889 LENARD Stanley
Parents Edward and Helen
ALBURY.
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I agree that is his birth in NSW.
2159 / 1888 LENARD Dudley ps Edward / Helen Blayney
10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury
It is also possible that the information was given verbally and understood to be Helen.
Dudley's death in 1888 at Glebe had mother Ellen.
I think that the 1942 death in Vic is Stanley's mother. Family stories are often incorrect.
Possible marriage of parents in England - couldn't find anything in Aus.
Marriages Dec 1846
IRELAND George Pocklington 23/162
WAITES Elizabeth Pocklington 23/162
Cando
Is this her birth
Births Dec 1859
IRELAND Elizabeth Pocklington 9d/64
See if I can find them on the 1861 census.
Cando
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Marriage with more detail.
IRELAND George 24 years Father George IRELAND
WAITES Elizabeth 23 years Father George WAITES
25 Dec 1846 Huggate, York, England.
Cando
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Arriving Victoria as Unassisted Immigrants Jul 1861
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f7h/
Cando
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And births to George and Elizabeth at Woodstock Vic.
IRELAND George Henry 1863 Reg#11562
IRELAND Francis William 1865 Reg#12466
IRELAND Mary Jane 1866 Reg#18837
Cando
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Marriage in Victoria
LEONARD Stanley John
WOOD Edna Hille
1930 Reg# 4593
Australian Electoral Roll
1932
LEONARD Stanley John 660 Kiewa Street, Albury Fitter
1934
LEONARD Edna Hille Hume Reservoir HD
LEONARD Stanley John Hume Reservoir Fitter
1937
LEONARD Edna Hille 428 Lygon Street, Carlton Home duties
LEONARD Stanley John 428 Lygon Street, Carlton Fitter
1943
LEONARD Edna Hille 440 Macauley Street, Albury HD
LEONARD Stanley John 440 Macauley Street, Albury Fitter
1954, 1958
LEONARD Edna Hille 440 Macauley Street, Albury HD
LEONARD Robert Powel 440 Macauley Street, Albury Woolclasser
LEONARD Stanley John 440 Macauley Street, Albury Fitter
Cando
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Places the family with his mother Elizabeth Ellen at Queensliffe.
Birth
LEONARD Lavina Elizabeth
Father Stanley Mother Evangeline MONTGOMERY
At Queenscliffe 1913 Reg#25380
Australian Electoral Roll
1914
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangel Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Elizabeth Ellen Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Stanley Swan Island Soldier
1922, 1924
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen Norong Park, Rutherglen HD
1931
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen 13 Evans Street, Brunswick HD
1936
LENARD Elizabeth 60 Albert Street East, Brunswick No occupation
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Will...death 23 July 1876 George IRELAND, blacksmith, Woodstock
..widow Elizabeth, sons Jordan, George, Henry, Frances, William
...daughters Ruth, wife of Gavin RALSTON, of Thomastown, butcher, Agnes, Mariah, Anna, Elizabeth, Ellen and Mary Jane.
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Australian Electoral Roll
1914
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangel Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Elizabeth Ellen Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Stanley Swan Island Soldier
1921, 1922, 1924
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangel 173 Victoria Avenue, Albert Park HD
1926, 1927, 1928
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangeline, Bolinda HD
1931
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangeline Lisbony, Irving Road, Toorak HD
1934, 1936, 1937
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangeline 115 Malvern Road, Malvern HD
1949, 1954, 1963, 1968
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangeline 1215 Malvern Road, Malvern HD
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Will...death 23 July 1876 George IRELAND, blacksmith, Woodstock
..widow Elizabeth, sons Jordan, George, Henry, Frances, William
...daughters Ruth, wife of Gavin RALSTON, of Thomastown, butcher, Agnes, Mariah, Anna, Elizabeth, Ellen and Mary Jane.
Link to search and view
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
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Can anyone find a marriage between Edward LEONARD/LENARD etc and Elizabeth Ellen IRELAND. Perhaps they didn't marry.
Cando
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Previous request about Ellen LEONARD nee IRELAND. ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=376694.0
Cando
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WW2 service file has his birth 8 Sep 1889.
Search NSW BDM using this date and it's a match.
Cando
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There was a death in Melbourne for an Elizabeth Ellen LENARD at R PARK in 1942 aged 81y.
Her parents named George IRELAND and Elizabeth nee WAITES
Reg #823
Essie
Essie
This would be the death which OP says cannot be her as his mother’s recollection was from childhood (see above
LENARD Elizth Ellen
Father:Ireland Geo
Mother Elizth WAITES
Death Place R PARK
Age 81
Year: 1942
Reg 823
Royal Park is a psychiatric Hospital.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Park_Hospital
Sue
Yes, She had senile dementia
I agree that this is Grandma Elizabeth Ellen Leonard's death notice.
I have looked up certificates I have and Stanley lists his Father as George, Alfred, and John. However his mother is always listed as Ellen Ireland
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WW2 service file has his birth 8 Sep 1889.
Search NSW BDM using this date and it's a match.
Cando
I'm amazed that he could make it to WW2. There is a newspaper report of him having an accident with a milk van when on a motor bike. As A result he lost his leg...met his second wife a nurse when she nursed him in hosp. Edna Hille Wood. What roll would he have in the second ww.
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This is the death of a man who lived at 184 High Street Malvern, the place of employment for Caroline Minnie Evangeline MONTGOMERIE before her marriage.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/140209889
Electoral Roll.
1913
MONTGOMERIE, Caroline Minnie Evangeline. Housekeeper.
184 High Street Malvern.
She was the daughter of Albert, an Engineer and Caroline Louise Elizabeth BICKFORD and they lived at 109 Malvern Rd in 1914 and this was the address given by Stanley LEONARD as his wife’s place of abode on his enlistment papers in 1914.
C. M. E. MONTGOMERIE did not remove her name from the E. Roll for some years after the marriage and in 1915 was registered at 115 Malvern Rd Malvern, with her parents (who had moved house) so seems to be seen at two addresses up to 1917 in both her married and unmarried name.
Sue
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1851 census in England of Ireland family
Pocklington East Stamford Bridge
George Ireland 28 Blacksmith Huggate
Betsy Ireland 27
Ruth Ireland 11
Class HO107 Piece 2357 Folio 365 Page 3
1861 census
Pocklington East Stamford Bridge
George Ireland 38 Blacksmith Huggate
Elizabeth Ireland 37 Huggate
Ruth Ireland 11 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Agnes Ireland 9 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Maydsh (??) Ireland 7 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Hannah Ireland 5 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Jordan Ireland 3 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Elizth Ireland 2 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
Martha Ireland 6/12 Fridaythorpe, Yorkshire
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Hi Sue, Royal Park is a suburb.
No, it is a large area of green land in the suburb of Parkville Victoria.
Here is a link.
Hi Sue, Royal Park is a suburb.
Sue
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Can anyone find a marriage between Edward LEONARD/LENARD etc and Elizabeth Ellen IRELAND. Perhaps they didn't marry.
Cando
There is not a recorded marriage in either NSW or Vic.
The other children who may possibly have been siblings to Stanley seemed to have remained in NSW
Sue
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So the family story is not accurate.
I suggest you purchase Elizabeth Ellen's 1942 death certificate. As she died in hospital the information will be what Ellen gave herself. Of course if she may have said she married Edward, but to date no marriage registration has been found and I have searched very thoroughly. Hopefully the certificate will help you.
It is helpful for us to have all the information including anything found on certificates, all in your initial request.
Cando
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So the family story is not accurate.
I suggest you purchase Elizabeth Ellen's 1942 death certificate. As she died in hospital the information will be what Ellen gave herself. Of course if she may have said she married Edward, but to date no marriage registration has been found and I have searched very thoroughly. Hopefully the certificate will help you.
It is helpful for us to have all the information including anything found on certificates, all in your initial request.
Cando
And/Or link previous threads on the same subject.
A lot of valuable time saved that way.
Sue
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?
Birth December quarter 1860 Elizabeth Ellen Ireland Pocklington 9d 57.
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?
Birth December quarter 1860 Elizabeth Ellen Ireland Pocklington 9d 57.
Reply#19 I think Chempat ;D
Sue
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I went back looking to see if birth was posted, but missed that, as under the censuses that had not been found.
Birth certificate to be bought, or has that also been suggested?
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I think this birth certificate would be useful -
10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury
father's occupation, age, birthplace, previous issue etc.
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I went back looking to see if birth was posted, but missed that, as under the censuses that had not been found.
Birth certificate to be bought, or has that also been suggested?
Didn't bother with census - too busy researching and transcribing Aussie info. Have her parents' marriage. Why buy the English birth certificate. We have the family arriving in Vic and her father's digitised Will and Ellen's death naming her parents.
I agree with Wivenhoe -far more important to purchase this cert
WW2 service file has his birth 8 Sep 1889.
Search NSW BDM using this date and it's a match.
The OP has certs according to her previous request perhaps she would like to type up the exact information as detailed on the relevant certificates.
Cando
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Thank you all for the amazing amount of information gathered in so short a time. I take your point about having all the info in the first post. I wrote a few lines without having everything at hand. I think you have all solved the mystery of Ellen Leonard. Stanley Leonard's story has been slowly unfolding, but now I have more info - The ww2 info is surprising.
Thanks again everyone, you are all very generous with your help and time.
Cheers,
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Didn't bother with census - too busy researching and transcribing Aussie info. Have her parents' marriage. Why buy the English birth certificate. We have the family arriving in Vic and her father's digitised Will and Ellen's death naming her parents.
I agree with Wivenhoe -far more important to purchase this cert
Cando
Buy the certificate for full confirmation. If it is an ancestor, then all the information adds up.
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Didn't bother with census - too busy researching and transcribing Aussie info. Have her parents' marriage. Why buy the English birth certificate. We have the family arriving in Vic and her father's digitised Will and Ellen's death naming her parents.
I agree with Wivenhoe -far more important to purchase this cert
Cando
Buy the certificate for full confirmation. If it is an ancestor, then all the information adds up.
The rest of my quote is omitted and this is the certificate to which I refer.
WW2 service file has his birth 8 Sep 1889.
Search NSW BDM using this date and it's a match.
Cando
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I'm amazed that he could make it to WW2. There is a newspaper report of him having an accident with a milk van when on a motor bike. As A result he lost his leg...met his second wife a nurse when she nursed him in hosp. Edna Hille Wood. What roll would he have in the second ww.
Stanley was a fitter and turner and enlisted in the 18 Battalion Volunteer Defence Corps (Part time duty).
http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/6140362/1
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=398557
http://www.ozatwar.com/ozatwar/vdc.htm
Debra :)
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Thanks Dundee, Volunteer Defence Corp. I noticed he didn't go far at school, however after the first ww he studied engineering in England.
Mother is upset that he was so close and she had been told he had died. She marched in the Anzac day parade for him. What a cad he was.
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Remember there are two sides to every marital breakdown.
Cando
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On Elizabeth Ellen Lenards death cert. It states that Dudley and Stanley were deceased. She had senile dementia for many years and died of heart failure at 81 yrs in 1942
Parents George Ireland and Elizabeth Ireland/Waites
Born in Yorkshire England
Married in Sydney to Edward Lenard when she was 26.
Edna, Eva and daughter Beth, Elizabeth Ellen are buried in Springvale Cemetary.
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Marriages
6139/1886 LEONARD Edward
CORBETT Ellen
At MUDGEE
(Reply#4 from Essie)
Possibly
2388/1880 CORBETT Patrick
SEGRAVE Ellen
ALBURY
But can't find Ellen to SEGRAVE or similar
:-\ :-\
Sue
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Has this already been posted? Sorry if so!
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
LENNARD Elizabeth
Buried 27/01/1942
Location Church of England, Compartment D, Section 22, Grave 10
No others with her.
Sue
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Oh That must be it Sue will look again.
:) L.
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Yep that's her...thanks. Just shows that when searching names including name variations is essential.
:)
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Sue, 1215 Malvern Rd. Reply 33.
Its the same house. numbering changed. It belonged to Granny Mont. and passed to her eldest son, Bert who leased it to Eva. Bert and Eva were very close and both helped each other during the depression.
L.
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Is there only one Edward LEONARD who only married one person, Ellen CORBETT and had a relationship with Elizabeth Ellen IRELAND aka Ellen and Helen?
Birth
6859/1865
LEONARD Edward G
Father Peter Mother Margaret
District Braidwood
NSW Police Gazette 19 Oct 1881
Coonamble – A warrant has been issued by the Coonamble Bench for the arrest of Edward LEONARD, charged with absconding from his indented apprenticeship with Octavius Langree, Licensed Surveyor, of Coonamble, on or about the 8th October, 1880. Leonard is about 16 years of age. May have gone to Mudgee or Yass. An apprentice from the “Vernon”.
Marriage
6139/1886
LEONARD Edward
CORBETT Ellen
District Mudgee
Birth
9943/1868
CORBETT Ellen
Father James Mother Bridget
District Gundagai
Second marriage after Edward's death in Qld in 1929.
10701/1934
DICK William
LEONARD Ellen
District Auburn
Death
13924/1946
DICK Ellen
Father James Mother Bridget
District Waverley
Births - and the LENARD births possibly registered by Helen/Ellen IRELAND.
18240/1887 LEONARD Stella M Edward Ellen Blayney
2159/1888 LENARD Dudley Edward Helen Sydney
Death
3797/1888 LENARD Dudley Edward Ellen Glebe Died 31 Jul 1888
NSW
Police Gazette 18 Oct 1888
Penrith – A warrant has been issued by the Penrith Bench for the for the arrest of Edward Leonard, charged with unlawfully deserting his wife, Helen Leonard, at Penrith, since the 14th April last, leaving her without means of support. He is 24 years of age, 6 feet high, dark-brown hair, sandy moustache, beard, and whiskers, blue eyes; straw hat; a carpenter, but likely to go shearing or clearing in the bush; wears a gold signet and two silver rings on little finger of right hand; a native of Mudgee. Supposed to be working at Mr Farlong’s woolsheds at Dubbo.
Birth
10743/1889 LENARD Stanley Edward Helen Albury Born 8 Sep 1889 but Edward deserted Ellen on 14 Apr 1888. So who was the father?
Other births and deaths for the children of Edward LEONARD and Ellen CORBETT already on the thread.
Note that the name LENARD/LENNARD spelling only relates to the birth registration of Elizabeth Ellen's children and her own death. Is it possible she was illiterate?
Gaol Description and Entrance Books 26 Apr 1904
Edward LEONARD
Born 1867 Aruelen
Carpenter, Roman Catholic, Read and Write 5’9” 157 lbs.
Hair light brown to grey. Blue Eyes
Scars – Upper left arm, palm left hand, sinew palm of left hand contracted.
Nose turned up. 9 moles on chest. One about right nipple.
4 moles on back.
Ex Vernon Boy
Where and when - Cootamunda 13 Apr 1904 Receiving 2 years with hard labour.
Photo attached.
VERNON nautical training ship
In 1866, the Industrial Schools Act was introduced to control 'wayward' children. This included youths found destitute, wandering the streets, begging, abandoned or committing a crime. The act also allowed for the governor to declare 'any ship or vessel or any building or place together with any yards, enclosures or lands attached there, to be a 'Public Industrial School.'
Under this wide-ranging act, the former merchant sailing ship Vernon was purchased in January 1867. It was refitted and declared a Public Industrial School in May 1867. The ship was the embodiment of the principles of the Society for the Relief of Destitute Children. In 1853 the Society had stated its aims: to provide relief for children found in a degraded and neglected state, to place them in protection under good influences, and to train them in the habits of honest industry.
The Vernon was initially moored between the Government Domain and Garden Island. Admissions commenced on 20 May 1867 and by July the following year, 113 boys had been admitted, with some as young as three being sent to the ship. On board, the boys were given moral training, nautical and industrial training and instruction, and elementary schooling.
In 1871 the Vernon was moved and moored off Cockatoo Island. The island provided a small plot for the boys to have a vegetable patch and for use as a drill ground and recreational area.
Death
1929/C2209
LEONARD Edward
Father Peter Mother Margaret BERRYMAN
Buried at Drayton and Toowoomba cemetery
LEONARD Edward 66 years
Religion Roman Catholic
Date of death 14 May 1929 Date of burial 15 May 1929
Australian Electoral Roll
1917, 1919, 1922, 1929 Qld Darling Downs-Esk
LEONARD Edward Coominya Labourer
Cando
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Cando, you are such a trooper ;D
I was thinking the same thing. It was the 'carpenter' and 'blue eyes' that I first noticed and wondered if he was the same person playing away from home.
Debra :)
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Well done Cando.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks folks :) HOWEVER if I was researching this family I would consider purchasing that 1889 birth certificate. It would interesting to see the details.
Surgery to my hand hasn't stopped me typing but difficult to do housework :P...and not allowed to get the dressing wet. At least some feeling has returned to my thumb, first, second and half third finger. Now waiting for surgery to the left one and then I'll sleep at night ;D ;D.
Cando
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Have purchased. Waiting for delivery by email today hopefully.
Amazing research Cando
Elizabeth Ellen was very literate instructed my mother on correct pronunciation when she was a child.
There may have been shame attached to story and cover up occurring early on. Remember Ellen worked for the Bailleau family a very upstanding land holder in the Victorian country side. Stanley wasnt illiterate either I have letters he wrote from France in beautiful handwriting, sent to Eva - who was very bright too...Stanley experiments with electricity..carrying out experiments with Eva.
Let me absorb the info about Edward Leonard and get Stanleys birth cert.
:) L.
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Cando, Hope Hand is recovering as expected......You're a Champ!!!
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Birth
10743/1889 LENARD Stanley Edward Helen Albury Born 8 Sep 1889 but Edward deserted Ellen on 14 Apr 1888. So who was the father?
Likely this birth was registered at Albury Court House. Likely the Deputy BDM registrar was a part time position there. Likely the admin clerical staff at Albury Court House would have attended to the registration. So, until WWI the birth registration process was basically conducted across the counter by the clerk asking questions (so verbal questions) and the informant answering those questions (so verbal answers).
Until the late 1960s, NSW did not actually require a SURNAME for the baby. The civil birth registration will not actually show a surname for that baby. It will of course show the THEN surname for that baby's mother. It is that surname that was used by the volunteers who put together the NSW BDM index in the 1930s.
So, yes, that birth certificate is a significant document in this quest.
The clerk likely asked the informant (likely to be mum to the baby), What is the name of the baby's mum (so if a married woman, her surname at that time was likely to match her husband's even if they were not currently co-habitating) ? What was your maiden name? What is your husband's name? What is your husband's occupation? Where was the baby born? And what are you calling/naming your baby? Where were you married? How old were you when you married? What are the names/ages of your older children? and notice that there's NO question asked of a married woman asking for the name of the person who fathered the child. (the question was not asked of single women either)
Cheers, JM
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Stanley used the Lenard spelling also on his WW1 registrations
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Goodness me!
What an amazing lot happened when I went to work. :o
Very clever work to untangle such a curly trail :D
Sue
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And, Sue, untangled by Cando, without anyone to do the housework.
Cheers, JM
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Stanley used the Lenard spelling also on his WW1 registrations
Note that the name LENARD/LENNARD spelling only relates to the birth registration of Elizabeth Ellen's children and her own death.
I thought I had mentioned the WW1file :-[.
BUT they are all LEONARD on the 1914 electoral roll at Queenscliff.
Louise I have always found it difficult to research 'family stories'.
You wrote previously on the linked thread.....
Hi ,
Do you know much about Ellen Ireland - Leonard. She lived in Preston, Brunswick, Northcote. She died in 1935 approx in melbourne. Is this fitting in with you? A police man came to see Stanleys wife and ask her to pay for the funeral but she did'nt have the money. Ellen apparently worked on wealthy properties in the western district. The Bailleau's and others. She took out shares in the Warrnambool woollen mill which she said she would give my mother when she died. Mum was 13 at the time of her death. Ellen was destitute by then. Mum & I think it was really sad.
Regards Louise
Just spoke to my mother. She remembers Ellen- Grandma Leonard taking her to Albury to visit an Aunty. They travelled by train. Mum was about 5/6
When Ellen Leonard died (inhospital) a police man came to ask Stanleys wife if she would pay for the funeral and arrange the service. Grandma Eva Leonard refused she had 2 daughters to bring up and she had to work as a housekeeper. She did'nt have enough money. My mother remembers the police man. Stanley won a rifle medal at the Preston Rifle Club in 1908. Mum has the medal a gold inscribed one.
Elizabeth Ellen Leonard is listed in the Census 1912/1913 as living in Queenscliff. with Eva.
Elizabeth Lavinia Leonard was born in 1913 and lived with them there also.
He in listed as a fitter on their marriage certificate 1911. As a sargeant major on his return from the war No. 2518, 3rd Field Company Engineers, confessed to desertion from the Royal Australian Engineers No. 1769 4th Rifles, 3rd battalion. He returned from overseas in 1915 and reenlisted in the 7th Rifle, 8th btn - private.Then transferred to the Field Com. Engineers.
He returned from the war in 1919 aboard the "Pakeha" Lived in Albert park with my grandmother and May Montgomery who both ran a very successful pie shop in Victoria st and Stanley as sick and stayed upstairs. he drank and did'nt work. Died in 1924.
On the marriage certificate he lists George Leonard and Ellen Ireland as parents.
I can sort out some of this.
The war record is my Stanley. He had 3 children Noel who died at 6 mths, Elizabeth who is my aunt and she died a few years ago. My mother Joan Caroline. Stanley was married in 1911 to Evangeline Montgomery, he was stationed on Swan island off Queenscliff where my grandmother and his mother lived then. His mothers name Elizabeth Ellen I have since found on the census. She lived in Preston , Brunswick, Coburg, Stanley died in Albert park in 1924 of gas poisoning.
So perhaps we can all attempt sort this family story out as much of it so far has been found to be incorrect.
http://www.themillwarrnambool.com.au/history.html
For most of the 20th century the story of the mill is a story of growth, beginning in 1908 when Marcus Saltau and Peter John McGennan convinced the Warrnambool Chamber of Commerce to invest in secondary industry with local capital. A public meeting in September 1908 agreed to raise £40,000, electing Saltau chairman of directors, a post he held for 34 years.
Another year more, the new mill was officially opened on 14 November 1910 by Marcus Saltau as company chairman and town mayor.
The Australian BAILLIEU [not BAILLEAU] family started their lives in Victoria at Queenscliff in the 1850's where the father James was a lighthouse keeper and built the Baillieu Hotel [later re-named the Ozone Hotel] One of their sons George, was noted as a hotelier at Queenscliff on the 1903 and later electoral rolls. The rest of this large family had by this time long moved to Melbourne and the rest as they say, is history. However George defaulted on three mortgage payments and lost the hotel but stayed on as manager. Perhaps Ellen worked for George and wife Agnes at the Queenscliff hotel. The move into pastoral properties in the western district appeared to be 1948 with the purchase of Yarram Park.
The hotel today.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f7m/
So where did Ellen live from 1889 when she was at Albury until 1913 at Queenscliff?
Was this domestic employment at Rutherglen?
1922, 1924
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen Norong Park, Rutherglen HD
Cando
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Great research Cando.
Birth
10743/1889 LENARD Stanley Edward Helen Albury Born 8 Sep 1889 but Edward deserted Ellen on 14 Apr 1888. So who was the father?
Well . . . in reality Ellen nee Corbett was perhaps the deserted wife since Edward took up with Ellen IRELAND (who was not his wife) for several years, but it appears he then returned to his lawful wife with her having more children in the 1890s and between his later time in jail!!
A good many Ellens were also known as Helen at various times so that report of wife 'Helen' doesn't tell us much.
Essie
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In this long and winding thread ;D, I may well have missed it, but tell me again if I did.
When and where did Stanley and Eva (Caroline Minnie Evangeline) divorce.
I can't see it in Victoria. Was it in NSW ?
Sue
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A good many Ellens were also known as Helen at various times so that report of wife 'Helen' doesn't tell us much.
You don't think so? Bear in mind that there is no mention of children. Infant Dudley died in Jul 1888 at Glebe and then this item in the Oct 1888 NSW Police Gazette from Penrith. Ellen CORBETT had child Stella M so wouldn't a child have been mentioned eg deserted his wife and child or family.
According to NSW BDM death index there are a couple of deaths with parents Edward and Ellen whose births were not registered. Perhaps there were other births not registered to Edward and Ellen CORBETT.
Cando
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There was no Divorce ::)
'Perhaps Ellen worked for George and wife Agnes at the Queenscliff hotel. The move into pastoral properties in the western district appeared to be 1948 with the purchase of Yarram Park.
The hotel today.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f7m/
So where did Ellen live from 1889 when she was at Albury until 1913 at Queenscliff?
Was this domestic employment at Rutherglen?"
Quote
1922, 1924
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen Norong Park, Rutherglen HD
Good Find...most likely she did start working in Queenscliffe. Both Eva and Ellen at different times worked as housekeepers.
Ellen may have lived with the Irelands in Preston. Stanley lived with a cousin Moore in Brunswick I think when courting Eva.
Still waiting for Stanleys birth Cert.
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There is a newspaper report of him having an accident with a milk van when on a motor bike. As A result he lost his leg...met his second wife a nurse when she nursed him in hosp. Edna Hille Wood.
I have not yet located that item.
Edna was born in Albury
10493/1907 WOOD Edna H
Parents Alfred E & Louise
ALBURY
Electoral 1930
WOOD, Edna Hill, Hospital, nurse
WOOD Alfred Ernest, Poole St. Dentist
WOOD Louise Jane Poole St. HD
This is obituary of Alfred Edward WOOD the father of Edna who died in 1938
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/102339752
I had been searching for an electoral roll registration for Stanley in the 1920's and it seems
Stanley was in Albury by 1926 when he was fined for falling to register to vote.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/102305788
Edna lived in the Oakleigh/Clayton area of Vic in later life and died in 1991.
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
LEONARD Edna Hille
Cremated 27/08/1991
The cremated remains have been collected
Sue
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This may be the correct property, Norong Park which was run by a family named JACKSON about the time of Ellen’s address being there.
http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/o/h/l/Lloyd-Ohlin/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0823.html
(Mention is made towards the end of the document, use Control F)
Sue
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Ellen Ireland - Leonard. She lived in Preston, Brunswick, Northcote. She died in 1935 approx in melbourne.
I have given you the electoral rolls listings for Ellen. I cannot see she lived in Preston or Northcote. Are you confused with the MOORE's who lived in Northcote?
She was also at Rutherglen in 1921.
Australian Electoral Roll
1914
LEONARD Caroline Minnie Evangel Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Elizabeth Ellen Stevens Street Queenscliffe Home duties
LEONARD Stanley Swan Island Soldier
1922, 1924
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen Norong Park, Rutherglen HD
1931
LENARD Elizabeth Ellen 13 Evans Street, Brunswick HD
1936
LENARD Elizabeth 60 Albert Street East, Brunswick No occupation
Stanley served a two year apprenticeship with the Acme Nut & Bolt Co at Jeffcott Street, West Melbourne, so could this be her as well. The only LEONARD at the address.
Australian Electoral Roll
1903, 1905, 1909, 1912
LEONARD Ellen 87 Little Collins Street, Melbourne HD
Cando
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I had been searching for an electoral roll registration for Stanley in the 1920's and it seems
Stanley was in Albury by 1926 when he was fined for falling to register to vote.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/102305788
Sue
Obviously left after this appearance in Court ::)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164448241
The Record 13 Dec 1924
“Because It Was Too Easy”
A young man named Stanley Leonard appeared before the Bench in the South Melbourne Court on Wednesday to answer a charge alleging he was likely to desert his wife Caroline of 173 Victoria Avenue and two children.
Accused’s wife said that after she had found out her husband had thrown up his work as a fitter at the Newport Workshops she discovered he had packed his bag and secreted it in the yard at their home.
Leonard declared he had no idea of clearing out. He had packed his bag to be ready to move out of the confectionery business when it was sold. He left his work at Newport because it was too easy and he preferred an active job.
Mr W G Smith, PM, said the case would be adjourned for 14 days, to give the accused an opportunity to do something intelligent meanwhile. If Leonard did not satisfy the Bench he was genuine in respect to supporting his family, he might find himself going to a place where work would be found for him.
Mr Rogers appeared for complainant.
Cando
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16429553
Sydney Morning Herald 27 Dec 1927
ALBURY.-
On the Sydney road a man named Stanley Leonard, of Hume Weir, sustained severe injuries to the right leg, and as a result the limb was amputated below the knee. He was coming in from the weir between 6 and 6.30 p.m. on a motor cycle, and when passing round a grocer's delivery wagon on the road, collided with a motor driven by George Bishop, Inspector to the Hume Shire Council. Leonard was taken to the hospital, where it was found that he had sustained fractures to the right leg in two places below the knee.
Cando
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http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16429553
Sydney Morning Herald 27 Dec 1927
ALBURY.-
On the Sydney road a man named Stanley Leonard, of Hume Weir, sustained severe injuries to the right leg, and as a result the limb was amputated below the knee. He was coming in from the weir between 6 and 6.30 p.m. on a motor cycle, and when passing round a grocer's delivery wagon on the road, collided with a motor driven by George Bishop, Inspector to the Hume Shire Council. Leonard was taken to the hospital, where it was found that he had sustained fractures to the right leg in two places below the knee.
Cando
Ah, so there is the accident.
This must be when he was taken for treatment to Albury Hospital and met nurse Edna who was then aged 20.
Sue
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Oh my...You Ladies are amazing It took me ages to find the bit of info I had.
Preston (once again family recollections) was mentioned by Mum as somewhere that Granny Leonard took her on her visits. Stanley was a member of the Preston Gun Club ...I cant remember the correct name..he received a medal there.
It may have been the Moores. Her death cert. mentions Brunswick.
You found the accident :D I didn't remember the details well ;D
And the "it was too easy" court article..wow. There you go he couldn't face up to telling her he was leaving his job and did he tell her he was leaving her!!! ::) I loved my Grandmother she was a lovely Lady.
I wonder what Stanley did in the 3 years before the accident.
Nurse Edna didn't know what she was getting into. From reports, they had a hard life together. He drank, was humorless and didn't work much so they were poor with a large family.
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Possibly this is the rifle club - established 1910
http://www.northcoterifleclub.org.au/
Cando
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Hi All,
Still waiting for the Birth certificate 10743 / 1889 LENARD Stanley ps Edward / Helen Albury. I ordered a hard copy ::) an image may have been quicker.
I bought this before and I must have thrown it out because it didn't fit what I thought at the time.
It will take 9 weeks to send...it has been 4 weeks so far.
Am making some changes to the Chinese ancestor info. having found Henry John Robert Gee Sing D. 1942 Kangaroo Flat Bendigo - mother Maria Lydia George!!! George Gee Sing was her husband. I think she is the mother of my grandmother Lillian Louisa Agnes Stevens. There is no Mary Ann Solomon. Maria Lydia is all over TROVE Bendigo and Deniliquin.
L.
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Have started looking for census information on this guy to glean more info. Can anyone suggest where to look. I have searched ancestry and TROVE. But there is not much coming up.
Henry John Robert Gee Sing D. 1942 Kangaroo Flat Bendigo - mother Maria Lydia George!
GEE SING, HENRY JOHN ROBERT
• Date of Death: not available
• Date of Burial: 1/04/1942
• Interment Number: not available
• Cemetery: KANGAROO FLAT
• Section: UNKNOWN
• Grave Number: 4427
There is a school award R.C. N.S.W. for Henry and Louisa. I have a photo of a blue stone church/school with children in national dress.
Cheers,
L.
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Finally the Birth certificate for Stanley John Lenard has arrived.
8th Sept 1889 This date fits the ww2 records for Stanley Leonard married to Edna Hille Wood.
Mother: Helen Ireland
27yrs from Yorkshire
Father: Edward Lenard
Clerk
28yrs Northumberland
England
Married 15th March 1886. Melbourne
1boy dead
Lived Schuback St Albury NSW.
Thank you all for your great research skills.
:-*
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Thank you for the details on the 1886 birth certificate. Who is the informant please?
At reply #6
"...Elizabeth Ellen LENARD d. R PARK in 1942 aged 81y....parents George IRELAND and Elizabeth nee WAITES.."
At reply #27
Will...death 23 July 1876 George IRELAND, blacksmith, Woodstock
..widow Elizabeth, sons Jordan, George, Henry, Frances, William
...daughters Ruth, wife of Gavin RALSTON, of Thomastown, butcher, Agnes, Mariah, Anna, Elizabeth, Ellen and Mary Jane.
Where Ruth RALSTON is a sister to your Elizabeth Ellen LENARD, and your family has memory of SLATTERY connection, this might be useful -
Preston Leader 12 Jan 1918
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/90757793?
..death of Robert R I RALSTON...brother of Mrs A WALSH, Jack (Mt Gambier), Mrs W SLATTERY, Mrs C BREWSTER and Mrs Syd HALL.........28yrs....by his sister Nell
WW1 #6889 Robert Ramsay Ireland RALSTON
NOK Nellie Evelyn Hilda HALL
Roll of Honour
http://static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/pdf/RCDIG1068890--120-.pdf
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Hi Wivenhoe,
The informant is Helen Lenard the witness is Mrs Butts.
Thanks for the new links. Will take a look.
L.