RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: kiwielaine on Thursday 23 April 15 04:52 BST (UK)
-
Hi there
A newspaper article from 4 January 1918 "Mr PH Dimond (Patrick Henry, my great grandfather) of Hastings (New Zealand) has received news that his nephews Sergt Patrick Dimond and Nicholas Dimond have been killed in action on the Western Front".
Are there any military records online I can view of Patrick and Nicholas Dimond, presumably from Derry, Northern Ireland (where Patrick Henry Dimond was born)? As I can't find any records of any of Patrick Henry's brothers immigrating to New Zealand, nor can I find any NZ Military records for Nicholas and Patrick.
Any help regarding this would be greatly appreciated.
-
Just out of curiosity has the name been put on the commonwealth war graves site as Diamond?
It is just when I search for Patrick & Nicholas Dimond there is no result?
Patrick Diamond is there but no Nicholas Diamond? CWWG also the medal cards return no result for Nicholas Diamond/Dimond at the British Arichives.
-
Hi Whiteout
From CWGC
DIAMOND, PATRICK
Rank:
Rifleman
Service No:
5602
Date of Death:
30/06/1916
Age:
30
Regiment/Service:
Royal Irish Rifles
1st Bn.
Panel Reference:
Pier and Face 15 A and 15 B.
Memorial:
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of Mrs. Mary Diamond, of Gortmacrane, Kilrea, Co. Londonderry.
Although the area fits (Londonderry) the date of death doesn't fit, the newspaper article dated 4th January 1918, is 18 months after his death (30/6/1916)
The link to Patrick Diamond's (gr grandfather) file is not his. Although his son Harry Dimond, KIA 01/07/1917 is in NZ archives online military files
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE15458975
-
Interesting I would expect Nicholas Dimond and Patrick Dimond to be on commonwealth war graves or in the British Archives. It is really strange Nicholas Dimond/Diamond has all negative returns on both sites and yet he is reported as deceased.
-
One other possibility is that side of the family emigrated also? So possibly need to look further afield. Australia maybe?
-
I checked https://honouringanzacs.net.au/ and http://www.naa.gov.au/ for them. No luck.
Also in the 1911 free Irish census all I could find was a Patrick Joseph Dimond and his brother Paul Nicholas Dimond. (I wonder if this is them they would have been 23 and 17 in 1918.
Could they have been Canadians (CEF)?
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx
Nope
There was a Nick Dimond born in Belgium
Ireland's Memorial Records, In Flanders fields
http://imr.inflandersfields.be/search.html
Not here either!
-
That's a possibility. In the 1911 census did they reside anywhere near Magherafelt, Derrygarve where my great grandfather Patrick Henry Dimond married before immigrating?
-
Patrick Diamond, Gortmacrane, son of John & Alice Diamond, "was a regular soldier serving with the 1st Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and had enlisted in Belfast. The 1st Battalion was in Aden when war was declared and embarked for the U.K. on 27th September arriving at Liverpool on 22nd October 1914. He was given leave at this time and arrived home in Kilrea for a full week. He had done about sixteen years in the army and served throughout the South African Campaign. ...wounded on rhe 25th of September 1915. He was then in hospital another time before being sent home to recuperate in Kilrea. ...On the 30th of June five men were killed, Patrick being one of them and this was the result of shellfire. Probably all five were killed by the same shell and this would explain why there is no known grave. He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing of the Somme. ...It is believed that by the time of Patrick's death at the Somme his father was already dead. His mother, by then an elderly lady, died on 7th January 1920."
Since Patrick was at first listed as missing/presumed dead it may have been some time before the family were notified that he was dead and it might have then taken time for word to reach his uncle in New Zealand.
Patrick Diamond is listed on the Kilrea War Memorial but there are no other Diamonds listed.
-
Here's widowed mother Alice Diamond in 1911 living in Claragh townland (near Kilrea) with a few of her children:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Kilrea/Claragh/591886
Husband John alive in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Kilrea/Claragh/1520853
Do you want more information on this branch of your family?
-
Thanks very much for that aghadowey. Yes please, if you can find more on the Dimonds I would be very grateful. I haven't had much success as far as their ancestry in Derry, Ireland is concerned.
-
Give me a little while to type it up and then post here :)
-
The 1911 record with Paul Nicholas Dimond on it is in Derrygarve
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Castledawson/Derrygarve/608163/
Will be interesting to see if it fits anywhere since your Nicholas is still missing.
(Name variants Diamond, Dimond, Dyamond, Dymond?)
-
How likely is it that the Nicholas mentioned in the newspaper article being Paul Nicholas Dimond aged 10 at the 1911 census, therefore as young as 13 when WW1 started and 16 or 17 when KIA? Can anyone find a death for him at a later date, therefore ruling out it being the same person?
-
This looks like him again, can't seem to find a marriage/death in Londonderry anyway.
Birth of NICHOLAS DIAMOND on 31 August 1901, magherafelt
Mother's Birth Surname MC ERLAIN
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=Nicholas&namel=diamond&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&type=B&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100¢ury=&decade=&exact=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&ddPto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&mmPto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=
-
Bit of a mystery here :-\
CWGC lists Patrick as "Son of Mrs. Mary Diamond, of Gortmacrane, Kilrea, Co. Londonderry"
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/756846/DIAMOND,%20PATRICK
However, research done for the Kilrea War Memorial shows his parents as John & Alice of Claragh (opposite side of Kilrea from Gortmacrane although not too far away).
Here's what I have on that Claragh family-
John Diamond (c1851-22 Dec.1905), son of Peter, m.(10 Nov.1865 Drumagarner Chapel) Alice Henry (c1851/c1845-7 Feb.1920), dau. of Edward
Marriage: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDX-RQ3
1901- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Kilrea/Claragh/1520853
Probate of the Will of John Diamond late of Claragh County Londonderry Farmer who died 22 December 1905 granted at Londonderry to Alice Diamond Widow. Effects £161 19s. 9d.
1911- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Kilrea/Claragh/591886 (m.35y 8 ch./6 living)
Administration of the Estate of the late Alice Diamond, Claragh, Co. Londonderry, Widow, who died 7 February 1920, granted at Londonderry 2 July 1920 to Edward Diamond, Spirit Merchant, the son. Effects: £527 15s.
1. Henry (25 Aug.1866-28 Mar.1924)
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR47-8HL
Kilrea Boys School 1878 Henry Diamond, age 12, RC, Clarah, (father) farmer
Diamond Henry of Claragh county Londonderry farmer died 28 March 1924 Probate Londonderry 11 June to John Diamond spirit merchant. Effects £50.
2. Catherine “Kate” (17 Aug.1868-aft.1911)
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-5HM
Kilrea Girls School 1878 Catherine Diamond, age 10, RC, Clarah, (father) farmer
? died 1920 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRLX-BYM
3. Margaret “Maggie” (23 July 1870-aft.1901/bef.1911?)
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYW-VMS
Kilrea Girls School 1878 Maggie Diamond, age 7, RC, Clarah, (father) farmer
? died https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRFB-2PG
4. Patrick (1 Jan.1873) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGPZ-K4Q
Kilrea Boys School 1878 Patrick Diamond, age 5, RC, Clarah, (father) farmer
5. John (1 Jan.1873), spirit merchant
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGPZ-K44
Kilrea Boys School 1878 John Diamond, age 5, RC, Clarah, (father) farmer
? Diamond John of Bridge Street Coleraine county Londonderry spirit merchant died 18 January 1937 Administration Belfast 5 May to Edward Diamond spirit merchant. Effects £5491 14s. 1d.
6. Rosella (11 Jan.1875-aft.1911)
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG5X-BFP
7. Alice (28 May 1877-bef.1911?) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGN7-K4K
8. Edward. 1920- spirit merchant
Note: census ages are inaccurate. School records from http://www.magheragenealogy.org/
There are other Diamonds living in Claragh who might be related but I'd like to check a few more resources to see if I can verify the correct parents, location, etc.
-
Thanks for that, aghadowey
Unfortunately the Diamonds from Claragh don't appear to be my lot. John Diamond, who would have been Patrick Henry Dimond's (my ggf) brother is shown in your records to have a father named Peter. My records -Roots Ireland marriage of Patrick Henry Dimond to my ggm Mary Anne McSwigan (1876) has his father as Thomas.
-
Is this your list on the Lavey Parish Notice board? (Roman Catholic chapel of Lavey in Magherafelt)
"Am trying to find anything on a Catherine, Thomas, Patrick Henry, Alice, John, Nicholas Dimond or Diamond. Their father was Thomas and they were from the Derrygarve. Have no details on their mother but she may have been an Ann O'Neill."
http://www.laveyparish.com/noticeboard.html
Could be another lead
If this is you Patrick Henry Dimond then the father of Nicholas could be the Nicholas mentioned here (or John or Thomas)
The Nicholas Dimond with a McErlain for a mother seems young but lots of boys signed up and went to war if they could fool the recruiting officers with their height and chest width even if they were not quite 18 yet
-
Hi Whiteout
That was a great find in regards to the Laveyparish noticeboard re Di(a)mond. It triggered my memory in regards to having been sent some information from Kathleen (the author of that message) many years ago. I've dug deep and found what looks like what could be our connection to Nicholas and Patrick Dimond.
From her Dimond family tree which she sent me, it would appear that my ggf Patrick Henry has a brother Nicholas (born Abt 1855 Derrygarve, Co Derry, died 3 November 1900 Port Clarence, Co Durham, England), who has sons Patrick (born 17 July 1884, Port Clarence Co, Durham, England no death date); and Nicholas (born 12 April 1891 Port Clarence, Co Durham England). Has got Nicholas dying at 2 months old on 7 June 1891 though. There are no other Nicholas Dimonds showing but maybe another son was born and given the name Nicholas? Just speculation.
Are there any military records for Patrick and Nicholas Dimond for Durham England that fit?
-
I couldn't find Nicholas Dimond or Diamond in the British Archives in the medal cards, which is concerning also he should have a commonwealth wargrave.
I'm signed into A*cest*y and can't find him there either.
Also on there the only Patrick Dimond is the son of Mary Dimond 1886 which we have already found.
Yet I've seen the newspaper report in NZ you mention so PH.Dimond must have reiceived a letter.
-
Only about a third of WWI service records survive.
1891 Census- Port Clarence, Co. Durham
Nicholas Dimond (37, born Londonderry), wife Julia (33), Annie (8 ), Patrick (6) Ellen (5)
1901 Census- Port Clarence, Co. Durham
Julia Diamond (42), Patrick (16), Annie (18), Ellen (15), John (7)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
-
Aghadowey, does that include medal cards and attesting forms?
For example my WW1 gr.grandfather has a medal card and attesting form (he was from Scotland, born in Scotland though) but no service record?
-
No, the medal cards, as far as I know, survive but it was many of the service records that were destroyed during WWII bombings.
I think the attestation form is normally part of the service records.
http://www.greatwar.co.uk/research/military-records/british-soldiers-ww1-service-records.htm
-
kiwielaine, I think the Nicholas Dimond born 1891 is the only one. I can see him on the free bdm
Diamond Nicholas Stockton 10a 70
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Very odd that there is no medal card for a Nicholas Dimond.
The fact that there is no date of death for Patrick may mean that no one filed a death certificate in England for him.
-
Thank you both for your input, much appreciated. Looks like it will have to be put on the back burner for now.
-
It is a shame, maybe they are unknown soldiers :(
The notice of their death reported in NZ
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HAST19180104.2.21&srpos=4&e=-------10--1----0Nicholas+Dimond--
-
Thank you both for your input, much appreciated. Looks like it will have to be put on the back burner for now.
Hi Elaine, I don't know if this is any use, but as you seem to be a family member you might be interested in this, it may be the same person? It's not me selling btw I just saw it was researching it and came across this thread
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/304769332037?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=d9c594b4547d4fa89540e107d699c325&bu=43165734274&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20230116012025&segname=11021
-
Hello Elaine,
I am one of the Kilrea Diamonds. In fact, I am from the next townland to Claragh, Kilrea where Rifleman Patrick Diamond lived - or so we believe. He was a first cousin of my grandfather. My understanding is that he WAS born in Claragh. My father inherited the family farm in Erganagh and we still own it as my nephew has now taken ownership of it having been left it by my brother. My father inherited the Claragh Diamond lands from his elderly relation many years ago. So we are now in both townlands.
I should explain that the name Patrick occurs very frequently in the Kilrea Diamond clan along with Peter, James and John (and further back Arthur). All of the Kilrea Diamond families were/are related. The name occurs in neighbouring parishes but any links are "distant cousin" only, if at all.
The reference to Gortmacrane may be a reference to a relation of Patrick Diamond who lived there. Many, many years ago in Preston England I met a distant cousin of mine, a lady who was a daughter of Daniel Diamond born around 1900 in Gortmacrane, Kilrea. He, too, was a cousin of my grandfather. Her son bore an unbelievable similarity to one of my brothers. On the passing of Patrick's father his mother may have gone to stay with that family. No social security in those days.
Unfortunately our church records were destroyed during the early days of the Civil War as were many tens of thousands of other records. I am trying to piece together data from such sources as the Mercers Company and Griffiths Valuations.
I hope this helps you in some small way.
FD
-
Unfortunately our church records were destroyed during the early days of the Civil War as were many tens of thousands of other records. I am trying to piece together data from such sources as the Mercers Company and Griffiths Valuations.
It was mainly Church of Ireland records that had been sent to Dublin for safekeeping that were destroyed. I'm not aware of same happening to the Kilrea R.C. ones. Unfortunately many church records (of all denominations) have gotten misplaced and lost over time.
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0360&parish=Kilrea