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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BevStimpson on Wednesday 15 April 15 16:56 BST (UK)
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Okay, I'll admit to being stuck, totally banging my head hard on a brick wall. To make matters worse, I listened to "distant" cousins" or descendants of my ancestors siblings, assuming they had (in a couple of instances they were correct) better info that I did.
WRONG. I seem to be at a crossroads - is this him/is that him...
Here's what I have and do know.
John Drain was born in (about) 1850, in (he says on the 1851 census, when he lived at 116, Southwick Road, Urr, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland) Lanarkshire. He was a quarryman.
The address and his wife and children are correct as is his trade so it is definitely him on the census.
He married at the age of 21 to Margaret McTurk (I have the wedding certificate) he gives his job as Granite Polisher, and at the time of his marriage he was living in Shap, (again correct, since some of his children and one being my great granddad were born there). He gives his father’s name as Andrew Drain, who was according to John on the marriage certificate an Engineer.
I haven't been able to find John's birth certificate, but do have his death certificate, he died on 20th December in paisley, Renfrewshire. Being a Scottish certificate it gives his father’s name has John Drain - profession of father is masons labourer, no mothers name since his daughter did not know her grandmothers name. Incidentally, at the time of his death he is given as 74 years old.
So this is his family, as I stand at the moment:
John DRAIN - Birth: abt 1852 in Scotland, Death: 19 Dec 1924 Paisley Infirmary
Marriage: 28 Mar 1871 Penrith, Cumberland, England to
Margaret MCTURK - Birth: 28 Apr 1852 Quarry House, Lambley and Asholme, Haltwhistle, Northumberland, Death: 15 Oct 1889 116 Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie
Her Parents are: Father: James MCTURK (1824-1899) Mother: Mary Ann DIAMOND (1824-1871)
Their Children
Margaret DRAIN Birth: abt 1871 Shap, Westmorland, England
Jane DRAIN Birth: 24 Jan 1872 Shap, Westmorland, England
Death: 4 Jul 1920 77 Queen St, Dumfries
John DRAIN Birth: abt 1874 Govan, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Jemima DRAIN Birth: abt 1876 Shap, Westmorland, England
James McTurk DRAIN Birth: 17 Jan 1877 Shap, Westmorland, England
Death: 29 Mar 1915 Norwich, Norfolk, England
William DRAIN Birth: abt 1878 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Death: 1888 116 Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie
Elizabeth Carson DRAIN Birth: 1 Sep 1880 115 Copland St, DALBEATTIE,
Death: 1947 Presumed South Africa
Mary Ann DRAIN Birth: Aug 1882 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Death: 21 Nov 1885 Southwick Rd, Dalbeattie,
William DRAIN Birth: 1 Jul 1884 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Death: 1 Jul 1884 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Agnes DRAIN Birth: 1885 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Death: 1945 Presumed South Africa
Female DRAIN Birth: 16 Sep 1889 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Death: 16 Sep 1889 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Now, here's where I am totally lost.
I've been told by the distant cousins that John's father and grandfather were HENRY Drain from County Down Ireland. Henry is not a family name, and does not figure in any of the descendants of John. However, John does have a brother named William who is aged 17 on the census.
I found the census from 1851 Low Cunocktrie, Kirkmaiden, Wigtownshire, Scotland which says that the parents were William and Sarah both from Ireland, but their son William is 3, John was 1 year old, I also found the same family in 1861, where they also now have a 2 yr old son Henry.
On the other hand, searching for Andrew gave me Alan Drain born in Lanarkshire in about 1821.
Any thoughts anyone please, even if it's give up for now ::)
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Nice, clear & thorough explanation Bev :) Might need some time to look for info, so be patient with us all!!
Advice will never be to 'give up' - just consider John Drain's birth & parents to be on the back burner ;D - and awaiting a little spark.
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I found the census from 1851 Low Cunocktrie, Kirkmaiden, Wigtownshire, Scotland which says that the parents were William and Sarah both from Ireland, but their son William is 3, John was 1 year old,
And according to the ancestry transcription, William was an ag lab.
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According to the 1881 census, John's brother William Drain (living with John at the time) was born in about 1864 at Pollockshaws, Lanarkshire which is the same birth place as given for John Drain. So William was born after official registration commenced in Scotland and his birth certificate will be available on ScotlandsPeople. ScotlandsPeople has a William Drain birth registered in Eastwood in 1861 which is the same part of south Glasgow as Pollockshaws. Age is 3 years out from age given in census but the census may have been mistranscribed - in any case, ages are often out by a few years on the census.
If I was you I'd buy some credits on ScotlandsPeople and download William's birth certificate as it will give the names of his parents plus other details. However, Ancestry has an index only entry for that birth: William Drain born 16 August 1861 registered at Eastwood, parents Henry Drain and Jane McLellan.
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The William Drain ag lab in 1851 census in Wigtownshire, with wife Sarah and 4 children can also be found in the later census:
1861 William Drain labourer in Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire with wife Sarah and 8 children
1871 William Drain whinstone miner in Pollockshaws, Renfrewshire with wife Sarah and 6 children.
However, their son John Drain is still with them in 1871, age 17 and a tailor, so cannot be the John Drain who is a labourer in Shap in 1871. Could well be related though.
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If I was you I'd buy some credits on ScotlandsPeople and download William's birth certificate as it will give the names of his parents plus other details. However, Ancestry has an index only entry for that birth: William Drain born 16 August 1861 registered at Eastwood, parents Henry Drain and Jane McLellan.
I used my last 6 credits on Scotlands People and got the record. Fortunately (or not) there was only one William registered between 1860 and 1865, allowing for mistakes on the census records. I've attached it, and thank you everyone for helping, now to buy more credits to narrow down John Drain.
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Unfortunately Scotlands People isn't throwing up John's birth at all :(
this is the nearest I can find for him, different parents though
15/04/1851 JOHN DRAIN parents: JOHN DRAIN/SARAH MILLS GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK
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I think this goes till the end of April - 20 free credits
Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Click "buy more credits"
Enter voucher code "scotlandnow" and click "use voucher"
Cheers
Jeanne :)
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Unfortunately, John Drain was born before the start of official registration of births in Scotland so you are reliant on parish registers. These were no means complete, so it's quite possible John Drain's baptism wasn't recorded. And as the family were originally from Ireland, it's possible they weren't Church of Scotland.
You now know John's brother William was born in 1861 and his parents were Henry Drain mason's labourer and Jane McLellan who were living in Pollockshaws at the time. This looks like them in the 1861 census, very poorly transcribed by Ancestry. Worth using up some ScotlandsPeople credits to view the original and see what it really says!
Skinmellyarce, Pollokshaws
Henry Dain age 40, larpoer man, born Ireland (occupation is possibly labourer mason)
Jean Dain age 41, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire (think that's Kirkmaiden)
Janet Dain age 15, bancher, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
John Dain age 13, cotton mill worker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Margaret Dain age 11, cotton millworker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Elizabeth Dain age 9, pokery worker, born Kirkmodon, Pallowayshire
Henry Dain age 7, born Straiton, Ayrshire
Mary Dain age 5, born Strutar, Ayrshire
James Dain age 4, born Strutar, Ayrshire
From that it appears the family were in Kirkmaiden until after the birth of Elizabeth, then moved to Straiton in Ayrshire, but had moved back to Pollockshaws some time after the birth of James.
They are in the 1851 census:
Cullstow, Straiton, Ayrshire
Henry Drain age 26, ag labourer, born Ireland
Jane Drain age 28
Jennet Drain age 5, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
John Drain age 4, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
Margaret Drain age 2, born Kirkmaiden, Wigton
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Got my 20 free credits & the 1861 census:
Skinmellyarce
Henry Drain head 40 Surface man born Ireland
Jean Drain 41 b Galloway Kirkmaiden
Janet 15 b ditto ?bleacher
John 13 b ditto Cotton mill worker
Margt 11 b ditto cotton mill worker
Elizabeth 9 b Ayrshire Maybole pottery worker
Henry 7 b Ayrshire Straiton
....didn't get next page
Josey
ADDED: I can find only 1 Henry Drain + variants baptism 1820 +-5 yrs on the ifhf search
Church Baptism Draine Henry 1824 Co. Antrim
with another for 1796 possibly the above Henry's father
Church Baptism Drain Henry 1796 Co. Antrim
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Good for you Josey!
Love the name of that place - Skinmellyarce --- pray may I ask how one might pronounce that?? ;D
Cheers
Jeanne
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Thank you Josey.
I'd used all my free credits and bought some more to get Williams birth. I've been searching Scotlands people for the wedding of his parents, for Jane's birth and for John. nothing is turning up even though it is believed that the wedding of Henry and Jane was recorded in the register of Our Lady & St. Ninian, Newton Stewart, a catholic church. the date I have from the alleged records (which I can't find) is 22 Oct 1843, whereas it is 22 Jun 1846 on Williams birth - since John also married in a catholic church, there is no need to believe his parents didn't marry at that church but nothing is showing up
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Any ideas how to locate John's grave? He died in Paisley Infirmary on 19th December 1924. Scotlands People doesn't have the records apparently.
and thank you everyone
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Hi
Just had a look on SP. Try searching for a marriage in Newton Stewart, Our Lady and St Ninian for Henry Drane (or use soundex). I have not accessed the actual image but the search shows marriage 22 Oct 1843 between Henricum Drane and Joannam Maclellan.
Also note that there is a birth on Family Search 30 Oct 1820 for a Jean Mclelland, parents John Mclelland and Elizabeth McConnell. May be a red herring but given other spelling differences thought I would point it out.
William
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Another thought, Looking at the 1861 census a couple of John's siblings would be about the right age to be born in 1855. Those certificates had a lot more information than subsequent years. It might be worth spending a few more credits on SP to get confirmation and shed a little more light on your family.
I found an old discussion online which looks like other people researching the same family. This implied that John remarried, this time in the United Free Church of Scotland in 1905. If that is the case then you may wish to look in their cemeteries too, not just RC. (I would suggest that you verify this yourself if you don't already know it or can discount it as yet more misinformation.)
Kirsty