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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: nudge67 on Sunday 12 April 15 12:20 BST (UK)
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I am hoping to get the births of Thomas WALLIS & Sarah ALLEN. They were married 10 July 1825 at St Dunstan & All Saints Church, Stepney, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex.
They were residents of Blackwall, Middlesex, when their children were born.
Thanks heaps
nudge
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Are they on any census showing their birthyears and birthplaces?
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There are a number of online trees for this family but with conflicting content especially re. the details of their children born in the UK - they have them born Hampshire, South London and East London but don't think the events relate to the same Thomas and Sarah.
These Trees state that Thomas, Sarah plus 4 children arrived in Australia in 1837 and that Thomas was a Shoemaker!
However, none of the London baptisms I've looked at tie up with a Thomas Wallis who was a Shoemaker.
You say they were living in Blackwall when their children were born - who are the children, their names and baptisms?
Some of the trees state he died 1848, others that he died 25/6/1869 Tungkillo, S.A. but this death is registered as Thomas Wallace!
Annette
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Sorry to be so long getting back to y'all.
Thomas & Sarah did indeed emigrate in 1837, with two sons and two daughters:
Richard, age 11
Mary Ann, age 9
Thomas Edward, age 8
Jessie, age 3
When 75, Mary Ann, from whom I descend, was interviewed by the Adelaide Advertiser as a surviving old colonist and spoke of their upbringing as children in Blackwall.
The family history as given to me by my mother has Thomas Wallis death in Adelaide on 3rd Jan 1887, and Sarah Wallis in Adelaide on 22 Jan 1869.
However, interesting that Tungkillo is mentioned, because Mary Ann and her husband James Peter VIVIAN resided at Tungkillo at that time (1850's to 1860's).
As for occupation, I have Thomas as a labourer, lime burner, & bullock driver. I believe his shoemaking namesake to be a different person.
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Okay I think the 1887 death date is incorrect, as the death notice in the paper records the wife of that Thomas Wallis, age 79, as being Phoebe. So unless there was a remarriage after Sarah's death, I don't think that is him.
Interesting the same death notice has him as a colonist of 56 years. that would have him arriving in 1831, 5 years before the colony was founded!
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I understand from the online trees that the Thomas Wallis who arrived with wife and 4 children in December 1837 was a Shoemaker so if your man wasn't a shoemaker it doesn't sound as if this is the arrival of your family.
The children you mention work out as a Richard bc.1826, Mary Ann bc.1828, Thomas Edward bc.1829 and Jessie bc.1834 but I cannot find baptisms for these 4 to a Thomas and Sarah in the London area at all which is odd. Were they non-conformists? Do you have the relevant baptisms?
Finding this one difficult!
Annette
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I don't know about the others, but Mary Ann was born 28/11/1828. I said she was 8, but she turned nine on the voyage. To quote Mary Ann:
The Advertiser Monday 14 December 1903 Page 5
Mrs. M. A. Vivian, of Mount Pleasant, writes to us as follows:-"I am an old pioneer, having left Blackwall sometime in September, 1837, for Gravesend, where we stayed for three days. We then sailed for this State, touching nowhere till we got to Kangaroo Island, where we dropped anchor for a few days, and then came on to Holdfast Bay, where we landed on December 2, 1837, now 66 years ago. I am the only remaining member of a family of six. My father and mother died years ago, and my brother 16 years since in Melbourne. My two sisters (Mrs. Winch, aged 71, and Mrs. Harrison, aged 75), died in 1901, one on November 1, and the other on November 13. I reached my 75th birthday on November 23 last......I was nine years of age when we landed. We came in the Navarino...... "
Based on previous research I am reasonably sure that at the time there were two Thomas Wallis's, with families, living in early Adelaide, that bear no relation to each other. I have been here before, most of those same trees intertwine the three separate Hornsby families of Adelaide at the time, who despite living in close proximity, I have established as being unrelated to each other, and indeed are from 3 different English counties. ;D
I do now see a problem... she had one brother and two sisters... maybe my tree is wrong after all ???
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Thomas Wallis who died in 1887 appears to be the son of Thomas & Sarah :
Thomas Wallis b abt 1838
Died Heidelberg , Victoria 1887
Parents Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen
Registration number 6684
This was the only death reg I could find which refers specifically to Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen.
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well that adds up. That's the brother who died 16 years past in Melbourne. :)
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1837 passenger list from the Navarino:
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1837Navarino.htm
Children listed under the same ticket number as Thomas (shoemaker) are Jessie, Thomas and Mary Ann Wallis.
Then there is also Richard Wallis, b abt 1825, son of Thomas.
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Going by Mary Ann Vivian's memories she had a sister Mrs Winch who died aged 71 in Nov 1901 (so born about 1830) and a sister Mrs Harrison who died aged 75 in Nov 1901 (so born about 1826).
The Thomas who died in 1887 was said to be born c1838, so was much younger than you'd thought for Thomas Edward (aged 8 in 1837).
What is the source for the expected birthdates of the children you've listed, other than for Mary Ann?
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First may I say what a wonderful account you have from Mary Ann and how helpful it is in this instance.
You mentioned her siblings as Richard, Thomas Edward and Jessie but this does not tie in with Mary Ann's own stated facts - in particular, the details re. her 2 sisters do pan out as follows:
Anne Wallis married a William Harrison 1846 Adelaide - she is shown in death index (as Ann) as being born ca. 1826 and died on 13/11/1901 Fulham, South Australia.
Sarah Wallis married John Winch 1854 Adelaide - she was bc.1831 and died 1/11/1901 Harrogate, South Australia.
From the death dates/surnames and Mary Ann's account these are clearly Mary Ann's 2 sisters. I can't comment re. her brother and his name because I can't find a Wallis (or Wallace) of the right sort of age in the death index in Melbourne. The account reads as if the 2 sisters and the brother were her only siblings - however, Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen had a son John (mothers name listed in birth index) born 2/6/1844 who married an Emma Mary Hockley 1866 Adelaide and who died 8/4/1912 South Australia.
I guess what I'm saying is are Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen who married 1825 actually the parents of Mary Ann, her 2 sisters Ann/e and Sarah, and the unnamed brother who died 1887 Melbourne when Mary Ann herself makes no reference to the John b.1844 to Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen who survived, married and subsequently died in 1912.
I don't doubt for one minute Mary Ann's account of the ship, arrival but since I can't see online passenger lists for the Navarino for 1837 on Ancestry I can't say if there was another Wallis couple arriving with 4 children on the same ship. It's just that it doesn't sound as if it was Thomas Willis and Sarah Allen. Do you understand what I'm getting at? Are her parents actually named at all in the account? Were they really named Thomas and Sarah or were their names something else?
Do either of the death certificates of Ann Harrison, nee Wallis died 13/11/1901, Sarah Winch, nee Wallis, died 1/11/1901 show names of their parents? There's nothing shown re. parents in the online death index unfortunately (Sarah's states John Winch but that was her husband not father) and, as said earlier, I cannot find a male Wallis dying in Melbourne 1887 of the right sort of age to be their brother.
Sorry if I am pouring cold water on things but hope you can understand where I am coming from.
As things stand at present, Ann/e bc.1826, Mary Ann b.1828, Sarah bc.1831 and (for me anyrate) an unknown brother arrived with their parents on the Navarino in December 1837 but were their parents really Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen (who'd had another child in 1844) , another Thomas and Sarah or were they named something else entirely?
I'm off on holiday to Dorset tomorrow so won't be able to help much in the next 10 days but will certainly still read any further postings on this thread.
Annette
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Here's a notice of Mrs (Sarah) Winch's death:
Chronicle, 16 Nov 1901 - deaths
WINCH: On the 1st November, at her residence, Wattle View, Harrogate, after a long and peaceful illness, borne with Christian fortitude, Sarah, relict of the late John Winch, Harrogate, aged 71 years. Arrived in ship Navarino, Dec 1837. Gone to be with Jesus.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87814096
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Hi all, revisiting some topics after an absence from Rootschat.
The more I look at this family, the more confused I get.
From the South Australian Pioneer Families database at FamilyHistorySA:
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/colonists.html (http://www.familyhistorysa.info/colonists.html)
(results compiled by me into chronological order)
1837-12-06 WALLACE S arrived on Navarino from London
1837-12-06 WALLIS Thomas (Edward), Sarah ALLEN, Ann, My Ann, Sarah, Thos (Ed), (Rd) arrived on Navarino from London
1837-12-06 WALLIS William arrived on Navarino from London
1839-05-30 WALLIS Thomas, Sarah ALLEN, parents of child born named Rebecca at Nth Adelaide
1842-01-14 WALLIS Thomas, Sarah ALLEN, parents of child born named Jane Barker at Nth Adelaide
1844-06-02 WALLIS Thomas, Sarah ALLEN, parents of child born named John at Nth Adelaide
1846-02-26 HARRISON William, Ann WALLACE married at Trinity, Ade, aged ~30, ~20
1847-01-03 HARISON William, Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named William at Nth Adelaide
1848-08-17 VIVIAN James Peter, Mary Ann WALLACE married at Trinity, Ade, aged 38, 21
1850-06-11 VIVIAN James, Mary Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Martha Mary Ann at Tungkillo Mines
1853-03-18 VIVIAN James, Mary Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Jane Rachel at Nth Adelaide
1854-03-24 HARRISON William, Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Esther Ann at Nth Adelaide
1854-10-23 WINCH John, Sarah WALLIS married at Trinity, Ade, aged 28, 24
1856-09-12 HARRISON William, Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Jane Elizabeth at Talunga
1858-01-04 WINCH John, Sarah WALLACE, parents of child born named Elizabeth Ann at Mt Pleasant
1858-01-13 VIVIAN James, Mary Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Kezia Ann at Tinginga
1859-01-04 HARRISON William, Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named Elizabeth at Mt Pleasant
1859-04-04 VIVIAN James, Mary Ann WALLACE, parents of child born named John Peter at Mt Pleasant
1860-11-07 WINCH John, Sarah WALLACE, parents of child born named John Baker at Mt Pleasant
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Hi,
I was looking for a Thomas Wallace and Sarah Allen and came across this post.
Ok, I have the death cert of Thomas Wallis who died in Victoria in 1887 mentioned in the above conservation. His parents are list as Thomas Wallis and Sarah Allen. To complicate matters he is listed as have been in Victoria for 30 years and having been born in Scotland. I have not found any Scottish records for him though.
On all his children's birth's he is listed as Thomas Hudston(e) Wallace. Different spelling to his death cert and different middle name than the one that supposedly arrived in South Australia in 1838. I have not located a birth for this one nor another couple called Thomas Wallis (Wallace) and Sarah Allen.
He named his first child Vivian which is interesting given the list you posted with a Mary Ann Wallace marrying a chap with the surname Vivian.
I may have just complicated your search further, or there might just be something here that is useful.