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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 09 April 15 11:13 BST (UK)

Title: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 09 April 15 11:13 BST (UK)
I'm looking for information on Michael Welsh, my 2nd Great Grandfather. I have found him in York in 1871 living with his wife Bridget and 3 children. In 1881 I found him in York with 5 children, so he was well established there.

I wonder if there is any other information I can find about him? How can I find when he left Ireland for England? Are there any other leads I can follow to find out more about him? How did he get there?

I can't even find his marriage or birth. I think he would have been born around 1830. I would love any help you can give me.

Thanks Liz Aitken (nee Welsh)   ???
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Thursday 09 April 15 14:18 BST (UK)
Hello,

Do you have a reference for 1871? I can only see a Patrick and Bridget Welsh.
What was Bridget's surname?
There won't be records of his arrival so you would have to go be earliest date in England and look for a marriage in England or Mayo.

Regards
Heywood
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 09 April 15 21:50 BST (UK)
Hi Heywood,

Bridget's maiden name was Melvin. In 1871 they were living in York, Civil District, St Mary's Castlegate. They were with their 3 children, James, John and Thomas, together with 3 other adults.

I've added a screen shot with the reference at the side. I hope this helps to give you a lead. I would love to find their marriage date a buy a copy of it. I have Bridget's death certificate.

Thanks for your help,
Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Thursday 09 April 15 22:49 BST (UK)
Hi again,

Marriage:
June quarter 1866 York Bol 9d pg 103
Michael Welch and Bridget Melvin are on the same page.

Should give you fathers' names.

This is presumably Bridget's mother - from 1891 census

Bridget Melvin 75 yrs death December Quarter York 1892 - should confirm husband's name.
Is she Bridget Milner from 1871 census?

Heywood
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 09 April 15 23:47 BST (UK)
Hi,

That is such a great help. I see he was using ch for Welch, so that could have been my problem.
Yes Bridget's mother is in the 1891 census and her surname is Melvin, not Milner, it's sometimes hard to read. I've actually managed to find her birth, she was born Bridget Ginty, so I'm getting there.

Thanks again for the marriage info, I'll follow that up and request a copy.

Thanks,
Liz   :)
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Friday 10 April 15 00:09 BST (UK)
I was just going to tell you about Bridget Ginty as a possible mother, with father Tom..  :)

I was presuming Bridget snr is the one recorded as Milner?
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Friday 10 April 15 07:57 BST (UK)
Hi Again,

Yes thank you, Bridget snr is definitely Melvin, nee Ginty. I have ordered Michael's marriage certificate , so more information will be coming shortly. Are you from Co. Mayo?

Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Friday 10 April 15 10:03 BST (UK)
Some Mayo heritage but born England.

If you haven't already done so, it would be worth collating all the irish born Melvin and Welsh names from York. It is useful in case there are connections.
Similarly, marriage witnesses and Godparents can help with tracing.
If Bridget is definitely the daughter of Tom  Melvin and Bridget Ginty, there  are Tithe Applotment records for Melvin in Kilmoremoy parish- it has been transcribed as Kilmovemoy. There is a Thomas.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

Griffiths Valuation also shows the surnames but they don't look very promising.
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/kilmoremoy.htm
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Friday 10 April 15 12:38 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716249.0

I just saw your other thread and you already have The Melvin information. I was posting it because there were no leads for Michael!
When you get his father's details it may help and as I said, if you collate all those Welsh names from the censuses, they also could be useful.

Regards
Heywood
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Friday 10 April 15 22:26 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for the link to the Tithe Applotment Books, I had no idea of their existence. As you say, Thomas Walsh is there, so that could be his father and I'll find out more when I receive the marriage certificate.

I'll spend some more time going through this link and see if I can find Tom Melvin as well.

Thank you so much,

Liz  :)
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Friday 10 April 15 22:31 BST (UK)
Hello again,
It was Thomas Melvin that I saw in the tithe Applotment records  :)
Please let us know when you get the certificate.


Heywood
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Friday 10 April 15 23:46 BST (UK)
OK, I'll get back to you when I know more.

Thanks again,
Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Wednesday 22 April 15 10:46 BST (UK)
Hi again Heywood,

I have just received Bridget and Michael's marriage certificate and I was wrong about Bridget's father. His name was John Melvin and he was a weaver. Michael's father was James Welsh. I will have to revise my thinking, but at least this certificate sets me straight.

Thanks Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 22 April 15 15:16 BST (UK)
Hello again,

So the information in your other thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716249. re Bridget's parents is probably not correct and her mother is not Bridget McGinty, is that right ?

Who were the witnesses at the marriage?

heywood
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Wednesday 22 April 15 22:57 BST (UK)
Hi Heywood,

 Yes it seems that the post was wrong and my subsequent thinking was wrong. Bridget's father is John Melvin and not Tom, it's not Bridget Ginty either unfortunately. The only way it could be is if the scribe at the wedding wrote John when he heard Tom!

The witnesses at the wedding were Michael Duffy and Bridget ? I've taken a screen shot of the names to see if you can decifer her last name.

Thanks for your help,
Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 22 April 15 23:38 BST (UK)
I'd say the name is Ansbro. There could be an apostrophe to shorten the name Ansbrough though.

Looking at censuses, I can't see much to help but this may be worth noting because of surnames.

1861 3546/112/33

26 Middle Water Lane
Duffey family with a son, Michael, 14 yrs.

24 Middle Water Lane
Thomas Ansbrough is lodging.  The name is transcribed as Jasbrugh.

What addresses are on the marriage certificate?

Your family were in Water Lane in 1871 but it seems there were three Water Lanes. :-\
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 23 April 15 06:34 BST (UK)
You've done well to work out Ansbro and I agree with you, it looks like that.
In 1881, my family were living at no 88 Middle Water Lane, and in 1871, they were at no 17 Water Lane, which of the 3 lanes I don't know. It could be the same Lane and they moved houses, or different Lanes.  The address on the certificate just says Water Lane, but with the connections to Duffey and Ansbrough, I'd have to think it was Middle.  What a detective you are.

Thanks so much, I don't know whether I can get any further back, but you've given me great help.

Liz  :D
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Thursday 23 April 15 07:38 BST (UK)
'Interesting' reading here:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f6z/

http://www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/lost-buildings-of-york/water-lanes
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 23 April 15 08:24 BST (UK)
Goodness me, to think that Michael's son Thomas who is my great grandfather went to live in London and became a policeman. It's no wonder he escaped! Thanks for the link, VERY interesting.

Bridget Welsh was living in Hungate in 1891 and running an inn, the "WheatSheaf", it makes me wonder what sort of pub it was.

Thanks so much,
Liz
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: heywood on Thursday 23 April 15 08:57 BST (UK)
a note on here says Thomas Welch had the pub in 1893  :)

http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/yorkshire/york.html
Title: Re: Michael Welsh
Post by: Liz Aitken on Thursday 23 April 15 09:21 BST (UK)
Well that is amazing and it is certainly possible, because he was there then, but married shortly after. The place and name matches.

Thank you  :D