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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: mike175 on Monday 06 April 15 21:36 BST (UK)

Title: Cordwinder?
Post by: mike175 on Monday 06 April 15 21:36 BST (UK)
Can anyone decipher the occupation of John Stutle of Ratcliff? It is from the 1659 baptism of his son, John.

The best I can do is "Cord'winder" but the letter spacing and the wayward apostrophe look wrong.

Mike
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: paston on Monday 06 April 15 21:52 BST (UK)
cordwainer shoemaker originally using a Spanish  leather
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: Alexander. on Monday 06 April 15 21:54 BST (UK)
It is Cordwinder (there is no apostrophe, that is just the tail of the d). This term was used interchangeably with cordwainer (a leather worker/shoemaker), rather than meaning a maker of cords or ropes, however it is difficult to be certain of what was meant here.

Alexander
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: Nova67 on Monday 06 April 15 22:11 BST (UK)
Not sure that this helps, but there is another of this profession listed on the same page as your John:
30 Oct 1659 Richard Moucke son of John Moucke
It is the last one on the page.
Sorry, I do not know how to do those screenshots!
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: paston on Monday 06 April 15 22:38 BST (UK)
cordiner,cordwainer,corviner,corvisor.these were all terms for someone who worked with cordovan
a special leather from spain but later a term for shoemakers.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: mike175 on Monday 06 April 15 23:41 BST (UK)
It is Cordwinder (there is no apostrophe, that is just the tail of the d). This term was used interchangeably with cordwainer (a leather worker/shoemaker), rather than meaning a maker of cords or ropes, however it is difficult to be certain of what was meant here.

Alexander

Thanks. It is obviously the tail of the "d" now it's been pointed out  :-[

I did wonder if he was something other than a shoemaker, being amongst so many Mariners and Shipwrights, etc but I suppose seamen need shoes as much as anyone else  ::)

Mike.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 06 April 15 23:58 BST (UK)
This term was used interchangeably with cordwainer (a leather worker/shoemaker), rather than meaning a maker of cords or ropes, however it is difficult to be certain of what was meant here.

It's worth bearing in mind that Ratcliff was the main centre for ropemaking on the north side of the river.

Oxford English Dictionary
cord-winder   n. one who makes cords or ropes.
1707   London Gaz. No. 4362/4   Lancelot Bowler..Cordwinder.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: mike175 on Tuesday 07 April 15 09:05 BST (UK)
Rope making does seem the more likely, given that many of the early Stuttles appear to have been linked to boat/ship building or seafaring generally. Another I found in Ratcliff was a "saylemaker".

Thanks for all the contributions  :)

Mike.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: Mistereff on Tuesday 10 April 18 13:20 BST (UK)
Hi there

Are you still researching James Paston?

Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: verseaumoineau on Sunday 15 April 18 10:26 BST (UK)
I believe that cordwinder is a bastardisation of the French cordonnier. It means bootmaker. I can attest to that on the basis of census records of at least one individual at one point being referred to as cordwinder and at an another as a bootmaker.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: seeking0 on Saturday 27 April 19 08:05 BST (UK)
FWIW an ancestor from the Channel Islands was listed as Occupation "cordwainer" in the 1851 census and "cord winder" in the 1861 census.
Title: Re: Cordwinder?
Post by: Viktoria on Saturday 27 April 19 21:58 BST (UK)
Well the Cord in Cordwainer is a corruption of Cordoba,or Cordovan as in Cordovan leather from Córdoba.
Cordonnier is also a shoemaker  in French as verseaumoineau says.
So he could be a shoe maker .
But might be a cord winder as he is among mariners.
Viktoria.( modified to recognise Verseaumoineau’s post.)