RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: DELLA on Monday 06 April 15 16:32 BST (UK)
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Forgive my ignorance, but not having much dealings with the New Zealand BMD records, I am not sure how much info you can actually access without sending for the record, itself.
I am looking for the marriage of an Florence Ellen Irwin, (father, Benjamin,) who married a John James Chapman, in 1907
Marriage
1907/6925 Florence Ellen Irwin John James Chapman
Is there any more info online, without having to send for the record, itself. I am trying to find out where John James was from, in England, born around 1886 and have no other details for him. His wife was from Stepney, London.
I have the death record for both he and his wife, but need to go back on his life to England. I can't find out who his parents were, either. Is the only answer to send off for the record.
As an after thought, I wondered whether anyone is able to find anything for Florence's sister, Ethel who was born around the late 1800s, from 1886 time.. I am trying to find out her birth record and maybe even a marriage record, too.
Thank you for your help
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Hi Della, and welcome. :) :)
A database I have access to states that the marriage took place on 6 November 1907 at Auckland.
I can also see references to a John James CHAPMAN of New Plymouth and another of Opunake. Do you know where he lived or worked?
I can see several references to an Ethel IRWIN but most have middle names.
To help us delve deeper, can you give us a transcription of the two death notices, please? They might provide some leads to follow.
Spades
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Likely death for Florence Ellen CHAPMAN:
1938 aged 51 years (e.g. born about 1887).
Sorry, Della, I've just realised I didn't answer the first question you posed. New Zealand BDM certificates need to be purchased (TIP: always specify that you want a 'printout'; this is a copy of the original document), but fellow RootsChatters will be able to fill in a lot of other details for you.
Spades
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From the Burial Locator v.2:
Florence and James are both buried at Waikumete Cemetery, Auckland.
He was interred in 1955, aged 78 years.
She was interred in 1939, aged 51 years.
Spades
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Here is the marriage notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3t/
John James second son of the late Thomas of Ohaupo and Florence Ellen second daughter of Benjamin of Waikumete
Cheers Janette
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Another article that may refer to him
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3s/
Cheers Janette
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It appears that Florence was born in NZ
1884/16505 Irwin Sarah Ann Louisa /Sarah Ann/Benjamin
1886/8329 Irwin Florence Ellen /Sarah Ann/Benjamin
1888/16690 Irwin Gertrude Isabel /Sarah Ann /Benjamin
1892/909 Irwin Alice Muriel/ Sarah/Benjamin
Cheers Janette
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This looks like the birth of her eldest sister
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3r/
at the house of Sarah Ann's mother
A marriage for Sarah Ann and Benjamin
1884/21 Sarah Ann Edwards to Benjamin Irwin
Cheers Janette
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a death for Benjamin
1927/6183 Irwin Benjamin 74Y
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3q/
Cheers Janette
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Here is Sarah Ann Irwin's death notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3u/
Cheers Janette
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Marriage for the youngest daughter
1930/2615 Alice Muriel Irwin to Auber Bruno Keyes
Cheers Janette
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Hi Della
i don't know if you have noticed Ethel mentioned in the death notice for Sarah Ann. I wonder if Ethel is maybe a nickname/alternate name. The daughters named in this notice were Louisa, Nellie, Tot and Ethel. In reply 6 Janette gave all the daughters birth names and it seems to me that Louisa is the oldest, then maybe Nellie after Florence Ellen, Tot is Gertrude as that is on the cemetery details and that just leaves Ethel. Could this be a nickname for Alice Muriel???
What do others think???
KK
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Their deaths
1966/47301 Keyes Alice Muriel 75Y
1962/27326 Keyes Auber Bruns 77Y
It appears that Alice may be Ethel
Cheers Janette
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There is a photo of Bruno here
http://homepages.vodafone.co.nz/~noelkeyes/75.htm
Cheers Janette
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have to read all this info through and then maybe come back to you all. Thank you so much for all the help given it is appreciated very much that you took time to help
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I am not sure, but think, that here, in UK, Ellen was then known as Nell, (as similar letters in name) so could the death notice refer to Nell for Florence Ellen, as she was not mentioned, by name in the death notice. I am not as good as this as you are, so maybe I am wrong.
I wonder why, if that IS the case that Alice Murial was then not mentioned.
Is there an Ethel Irwin from around the same area, that the family seem to be living in, that shows up in the marriage records, please.
Once again, thank you all so much for all the help, and time, that you have spent on this.
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Hello again,
I have a postcard, with a photo on the front, and the card is signed Ethel, so would assume that she still went under her given name of Ethel, at that time.
On looking through all the details that I have collated from the replies, on this website, I wondered whether it might be possible to ask for two more pieces of info on this family.
1) is it at all possible to find out the names of the other people who were in Ponsomby Road, so that I can ascertain who the aunt that is referred to at the time of Florence's marriage, in the paperspast clip.
2) Is there any mention, anywhere, as to a Thomas Chapman of Ohaupo, before the marriage, so that I can find out more of him, too.
I do apologise, sincerely, for being such a pain, but I have no way of accessing these records.
I am so grateful to you all for the help that you have given up to now.
Thank you
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Hi Della
I recommend typing in Thomas Chapman Ohaupo into Google as I have done this and there are several websites worth looking at. I believe Thomas's wife was Susannah Mounford. A Susannah Chapman died in 1916 and is buried in Ohaupo , the same place as Thomas. The details certainly fit your Thomas.
I would recommend looking at many of the NZ websites available as they are fantastic. I am from NZ and live in the UK but spend many hours sifting for information.
Regards
KK
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Hello Kentishkiwi
thank you for your advice. I will look on google as you suggest. It certainly sounds like it could be the right family. I did google a couple of things but probably needed to r-word the search format.
Thanks again
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Have a play round with PapersPast using variations like full name and intials and names
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=q&q=&e=-------10--1----0--
Cheers Janette
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thanks Jeanette
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Looking at the death notice for the mother Sarah Ann it appears the 4 girls may have all had pet names
Sarah Ann Louisa seems to have been known as Louisa
Florence Ellen was Nellie
Gertrude Isabelwas Tot
Alice Muriel may have been Ethel
A genie's nightmare ;D
Cheers Janette
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Here is Susannah's death notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f40/
Cheers Janette
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The cemetery records for Thomas and Susannah are here
http://rid.waipadc.govt.nz/cemetery/plots_list.php?fname=&lname=chapman&cemetery=OHAU&B1=Submit
Cheers Janette
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Thomas died suddenly leaving a wife and 3 sons
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f3z/
Cheers Janette
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It appears that some online tree are incorrect this looks like Thomas and Susannah's marriage
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1858
Chapman Thomas Stourbridge 6c 203
Mountford Susanna Stourbridge 6c 203
The district Stourbridge spans the boundaries of the counties of Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands and Worcestershire
Cheers Janette
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Thanks again Janette. you hsve all been so helpful
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I always thought that Alice Muriel Irwin and Ethel Irwin were sisters but now I don't know what to think as I just been given a letter written by Arthur Bevan Wheeler who talks about visiting his Aunt Ethel who married Auber Bruno Keyes.
Everything that he has mentioned in his letter has proved to be correct except Ethel.
I have Alice Muriel Irwin and Auber Bruno Keyes marriage print out from NZ BDM so now I am thinking like mentioned on this post that Alice Muriel Irwin was known as Ethel, however I have a approx. birth year of 1896 for Ethel and another child Ada Irwin 1906 for the life of me I cannot find any record of were these two names and dates came from. :o
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Hello Della, I see you are looking for Thomas Chapman and family from Ohaupo. This is my family, they did'nt just have three sons they also had three daughters Frances Fanny Chapman who married Charles Karl, who are my great great grandparents and she also had 2 other sisters Susanna Chapman and Emily Chapman. I don't understand why the news paper of that time would just mention the 3 sons unless it was because the daughters were already married. I am very interested in hearing why you were wanting to find this family. Please contact me. Telefunu