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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Rosinish on Thursday 02 April 15 18:32 BST (UK)

Title: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 02 April 15 18:32 BST (UK)
My gg grandmother was born Rose Ann Cullen, had 2 kids by John McCluskey (never married) & another 4 kids by Thomas Gunn (never married)  :-[

I have been searching for over 15 yrs for Rose Ann in 1871 & have not found anything close to date which is a complete mystery  :-\

1851 – Rosana Cullen, Penty, Shotts (home of her brother James Cullen)

1861 – Rosanna Cullen, 157 Kirk Rd, Cambusnethan (home of her father Peter Cullen)

1871 – Where is my GG Grandmother Rose Ann ??? …………her 2 kids, Rose Ann & John (each recorded as friend) are with their father John Mcclasky (sic) (Lodger) at 4 Brown St, Cambusnethan, home of her sister & brother-in-law Mary Jane & William Rane (sic), should read Kane/Kean/Caine or similar

She may have been using the surname McCluskey which has numerous spellings ???

1881 – Rose Ann Cullen, Washer & Cleaner, Smellies Ld, McAlpine St, Wishaw as Boarder at the home of Margaret Williamson

1891 – Rose Ann Gunn, Coalminer’s wife (although never married to Thomas Gunn), 11 Watsonville, Dalziel, Motherwell

I am cross eyed with scrolling through pages & pages, over & over again yet no closer to finding her 15 yrs on  ???

Anne Marie
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 April 15 20:54 BST (UK)
What is it about the 1871 Scottish census that is sometimes so difficult to find people  :-\ It is often the one that I have trouble with too!

Annie, you are so good at this and 15 years  :o of searching!

I will have a look too but holding my breath and x my fingers really  ;)

Monica
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 April 15 21:01 BST (UK)
Is this Rose Ann's immediate family here on this member submitted LDS tree? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:37WF-NJZ

Doesn't help with finding her in 1871 though!

Monica
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: greeneyedgirl on Friday 03 April 15 09:20 BST (UK)
Hi, I looked at the 1871 Scotland and found these 4 Roses;

Rose McCluskie age 30 St Mary's,Dundee,Angus
Rose Ann McCusker age 32 Bridgeton,Glasgow
Rose Ann McCusker age 30 Glasgow Central
Rosie McCusker age 37 High Church,Glasgow

I then looked at marriages and found the following:

Marriage:
28 June 1880 St Joseph's Chapel,Dundee after publication according to the forms of the Roman Catholic church.
John Clinton
ship plater
bachelor  age 20
64 Lilybank rd,Dundee
father:Thomas Clinton boatyard labourer (dec)
mother:Mary Barclay previously Clinton  ms Kerrigan

Rose Ann Cullen  x her mark
jute spinner
spinster  age 20
6 Algekness St,Dundee
father:Peter Cullen shoemaker journeyman
mother:Jane Cullen ms Geoghan
witnesses:John Farnham,Joseph Holder,Mary Ann Sweeny

I thought I'd send this just on off chance. When did she have the children with Thomas Gunn? I ask as I have a distant relation by the name of Thomas Gunn. Kim
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 03 April 15 12:12 BST (UK)
Annie, you are so good at this and 15 years  :o of searching!

Monica  ;D, Thanks for the compliment.................as good as my last search which is usually for others  ::)

A case of easier on the outside looking in rather then on the inside looking out I think  ???  ;D

Is this Rose Ann's immediate family here on this member submitted LDS tree? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:37WF-NJZ
Monica

Yes Monica,

That's some of my family..............mainly my Rose Ann's brother Patrick. If it's who I think it is, we have been in contact in the past & we exchanged lines  ;D

Blemdookie,

I did see McCusker but at the time it seemed too much of an error but maybe she was drunk when she gave her name McCluskey  ??? ???  ;D ;D  ::) ::)

Rose Ann was single in 1871..............she never married although both death certs. state married to Rose Ann Cullen & widow of Thomas Gunn ???

Children (Gunn)

Thomas c1876 b Motherwell
Mary 1877 b Windyedge Farm, Cleland, Shotts
Agnes 1879 b Greenhill, Shotts
Sarah 1881 b Cambusnethan

Any advance on the children would be good although I have a good amount on Sarah who married Robert Patterson in 1900 Dalziel, emigrated to Canada & had a good relationship with her half-sister my g grandmother Rose Ann Cullen (aka McCluskey)  :D

Rose Ann's parent's were Peter Cullen (c1811 - 1865) & Roseann Flannigan (c1811 - btwn 1844-1851)

Anne Marie
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Joseph Jackson on Sunday 05 February 17 20:00 GMT (UK)
RE. ENTRY 1851 – Rosana Cullen, Penty, Shotts (home of her brother James Cullen).
Penty was a farmstead in the western part of Shotts Parish (between the villages of Cleland and Shotts. In the late 18th Century flax was washed at Penty  Farm and taken to the nearby flax mill at Murdostoun. Here is a photo of the now derelict steading at Penty.
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: sancti on Sunday 05 February 17 20:52 GMT (UK)
SP has an entry for 1871 census in Cambusnethan for a 28 year old Rose Collins but I can't find the entry on Anc*
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Lodger on Sunday 05 February 17 21:18 GMT (UK)
I may very well be sending you off in the wrong direction entirely but, could this be the Roseann you are looking for?
Entry in the burial register at Cambusnethan cemetery, Wishaw.

Rose Ann McClusky. Housewife, Wishaw, aged 30 years, married.
Parents - William Cain & Mary Jane Cullen.
Intered in plot C447 on 9th December 1884.

___________________________________________________

Interred in the next plot at a later date -
James BD Cullen. Wishaw, aged 7 weeks.
Parents - William Cullen & Annie T. Moan.
Interred 7th February 1914.

Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: scotmum on Sunday 05 February 17 21:33 GMT (UK)
Motherwell Times April 5th 1895 records that Rose Ann Cullen or Gunn, had choice of a fine or three days in prison for having been drunk and incapable. Have you considered she may have been in hospital or prison at time of 1871 census, possibly recorded only by her initials.

Motherwell Times February 13, 1886, police court item about Rose Ann. The writer was, ahem,  quite descriptive regarding her expression and vocabulary. She was to be fined or sent to prison at  Duke Street http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSG00017 for 10 days. The writer seemed to be about to imply she would have been better sent to Gartnavel http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSG00023.   

Motherwell Times March 27, 1886 also has a police court item about Rose Ann and refers to her as 'the terror of Watsonville' (the area she lived in with Gunn). She seems to have been sent to prison for 40 days this time.

Thomas Gunn snr looks to have also had a few run ins with the police court, and at least one for Thomas Gunn jnr.
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 06 February 17 08:31 GMT (UK)
Could she have been back in Ireland for some reason?
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: scotmum on Monday 06 February 17 10:02 GMT (UK)
I may very well be sending you off in the wrong direction entirely but, could this be the Roseann you are looking for?
Entry in the burial register at Cambusnethan cemetery, Wishaw.

Rose Ann McClusky. Housewife, Wishaw, aged 30 years, married.
Parents - William Cain & Mary Jane Cullen.
Intered in plot C447 on 9th December 1884.

Based on info posted earlier in thread:

Quote
1871 – Where is my GG Grandmother Rose Ann ??? …………her 2 kids, Rose Ann & John (each recorded as friend) are with their father John Mcclasky (sic) (Lodger) at 4 Brown St, Cambusnethan, home of her sister & brother-in-law Mary Jane & William Rane (sic), should read Kane/Kean/Caine or similar

this deceased Rose Ann looks to have been the niece of Rose Ann Cullen. Given her married surname, though, I wonder if she was married to the John Cullen/McLusky (or variations), her cousin (son of Rose Ann Cullen), who was staying in house of her parents at 1871.
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: scotmum on Monday 06 February 17 10:27 GMT (UK)
Just checked scotlandspeople, and a marriage in Cambusnethan in 1871 - 628/124 seems to fit:

Rose Ann Caine/Kean to John McLusky/McCluskey.


Age in the register entry should reveal if this was John snr or John jnr (assuming the latter used his father's surname rather than his mother's).

update

just viewed the 1871, so as John jnr was only 3, it looks like it was John snr, the chap Rose Ann Cullen apparently had her two children by, that her niece, Rose Ann Caine/Kane, married (unless it was an entirely different chap of same surname and forename).
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 08 February 17 00:43 GMT (UK)
Hi folks, thanks to all & my apologies for no response from Reply #5 onwards as my email doesn't work!

Joseph Jackson.. for the pic, great to have & looks to have been a lovely place at one time although I don't understand why places like this are left to deteriorate.

Sancti..one for me to consider!

Lodger...(who was at school with one of my McKinnon rellie's).. You gave me MI's on another thread (related but different).

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724457.msg5735466#msg5735466

Scotmum...Wow, what can I say  :o
I hadn't considered anything other than looking through all possibles I could find with a birthplace of Ireland but difficult with not knowing what name she was using.

Forfarian, that crossed my mind but no Irish 1871 to check.

Much appreciated,

Annie

Added....I have most of the info. on Rose Ann (all census', all kids BC's & her DC) but for all those years I have been unable to locate her in 1871

Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 08 February 17 01:52 GMT (UK)
SP has an entry for 1871 census in Cambusnethan for a 28 year old Rose Collins but I can't find the entry on Anc*

Sancti....

Was a good possibility but alas not her! The search goes on  ;)

Edited to include extra info. from 1871 census.

This may help any other researchers?

Living at 66 Berryhill, (3rd)? Row, Wishaw, Lanarkshire (all kids b Lanarkshire)

James Collins, 29 yrs (Quarryman) born Ireland.
Wife Rose Collins, 28 yrs born Ireland.

Children;
Ann, 6 yrs b Bothwell
James, 3 yrs b Bothwell
Patrick, 1 yr b Wishaw

Annie
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 08 February 17 02:12 GMT (UK)
I may very well be sending you off in the wrong direction entirely but, could this be the Roseann you are looking for?
Entry in the burial register at Cambusnethan cemetery, Wishaw.

Rose Ann McClusky. Housewife, Wishaw, aged 30 years, married.
Parents - William Cain & Mary Jane Cullen.
Intered in plot C447 on 9th December 1884.

Lodger,

This you gave me on another post (different quest).

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724457.msg5735466#msg5735466

Rose Ann McCluskey (Cain) who died 1884, wife of John McCluskey was the niece of my Rose Ann (Cullen).
My Rose Ann Cullen had 2 kids, Rose Ann & John McLusky (Cullen) by John McCluskey prior to him marrying her niece.
My Rose Ann Cullen died 11 Apr 1898 in Dalziel.

Annie

Added, Reply #4 I had given my Rose Ann's parents names.
Title: Re: Where was Rose Ann Cullen in 1871 (b c1844 Ireland & d 1898 Motherwell) ?
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 08 February 17 02:29 GMT (UK)
Interred in the next plot at a later date -
James BD Cullen. Wishaw, aged 7 weeks.
Parents - William Cullen & Annie T. Moan.
Interred 7th February 1914.

Lodger,

Thanks as this one is interesting as I have no William Cullen (to date) anywhere in my direct line & I don't see a marriage for William & Annie in Scotland i.e. may just be a coincidence as my Cullen line have been here since 1851.

Annie