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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: nicknock on Tuesday 31 March 15 16:02 BST (UK)
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Hi all. I've got myself into a right palaver.
I identified Rennard Mawson (b. abt. 1837, Shipley) as the husband of Lydia Hollis through the 1861 census, Shipley, Yorkshire. In the same household is a son called Rennard Hollis - I assumed he was their son, born before their marriage. There are several other, Mawson, children.
I have found no other reference anywhere to this man. Couldn't find a marriage, or his birth, or any other census entries, although Lydia is quite easy to find.
I started to follow up his children and was thrown to find that at least a couple of them give their father's name as William Mawson on marriage entries. I initially dismissed it and decided I was looking at the wrong people, but then I peeped at someone else's tree and saw that they had Lydia's husband as William and not as Rennard. So, I decided it might be worthwhile treating him as a William, just to see...
I found a marriage dated 2 Nov 1857 (right time) between Lydia Holles, daughter of John Holles, tailor (all correct) and William Mawson, which took place in Shipley (correct).
In the 1871 census, Lydia was alone at an address in Shipley, married but husband not present, and I've never been able to find him. By 1881, she's calling herself widow, although I can't find his death.
Using the name William, I've now found someone in the 1871 census that could be him, in very much the right place, a weaver, living with a widow Mary Ann Baldwin and her daughter. His age is pretty much right, born Baildon, which I think is part of Shipley. I still haven't found a death for him, and I can't find him in the 1881 census.
Could he have changed his name, or had two names? I can't dismiss the name Rennard as it was his son's name, and also a grandson's name. His children presumably knew about both names, so it can't have been a secret identity.
That's all a bit long-winded but can anyone help? Has anyone come across Rennard/William Mawson? Or a similar situation? Or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?!
Hope so ???
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I like the name Rennard. It may have been his middle name, mother's maiden name even.
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This could be him in 1851 born Baildon with father William
William Mawson (down as Manson but amended) 46
Ann 46
Jane 22
Mary 19
Thomas 25
William 17
Martha 14
Duke 10
Joseph 6
In 1861 he's a lodger in Bradford age 26 married
The match you found in 1871 with the Baldwin girls fits rather well
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Hi there, thanks for getting back to me!
It could be a middle name, and perhaps that's the most obvious answer - but I've never seen the two names used together, even though I've looked...
Thanks very much for the 1851 census - I'll follow that up...
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Hi Nicknock, there is a 5 year old thread regarding this family here. The thread was started by Gerry who is still active on Rootschat, you could send him a pm to see if he has got any further with his research.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459407.0
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Hi Jool, thanks very much for the link - I will follow it and see if Gerry got anywhere...
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Hi again nicknock, the link below may be of interest to you, it mentions Mawson and Rennard families in the Baildon area.
The Lost Villages of Baildon Moor
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f2a/
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Thankyou! That's an interesting link...
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This could be him in 1851 born Baildon with father William
William Mawson (down as Manson but amended) 46
Ann 46
Jane 22
Mary 19
Thomas 25
William 17
Martha 14
Duke 10
Joseph 6
In 1861 he's a lodger in Bradford age 26 married
The match you found in 1871 with the Baldwin girls fits rather well
I think it a very good chance the above family is correct. Both William and Ann are born in Baildon which was in the parish of Otley. This marriage fits rather well.
Name: Anne Reynard
Marriage or Bann Date: 26 Oct 1823
Parish: Otley, All Saints
Spouse's Name: William Mawson [weaver]
witnesses: William Mawson and Stephen Longfield
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1841, Baildon
William Mawson 35, stuff weaver.
Ann Mawson 35
Thomas Mawson 15
Jane Mawson 13
Mahalah Mawson 9
William Mawson 7
Martha Mawson 4
Duke Mawson 1
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I identified Rennard Mawson (b. abt. 1837, Shipley) as the husband of Lydia Hollis through the 1861 census, Shipley, Yorkshire. In the same household is a son called Rennard Hollis - I assumed he was their son, born before their marriage
I don't see a Rennard Hollis with them in 1861 ??? Did you mean 1871 and if so where is Rennard Hollis in 1861?
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Interesting
Rennard Hollis Mawson born 1855 in Bradford, Yorkshire?
Rennard Hollis Mawson is listed as the son of Lydia Mawson on familysearch living in Idle Yorkshire in 1871
Who was the oldest sibling of Lydia's children? Often but not always the parents get married in the same town. It would be good to find Mr Mawson and Lydia Hollis's marriage date/place
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Who was the oldest sibling of Lydia's children? Often but not always the parents get married in the same town. It would be good to find Mr Mawson and Lydia Hollis's marriage date/place
It has been found.
I found a marriage dated 2 Nov 1857 (right time) between Lydia Holles, daughter of John Holles, tailor (all correct) and William Mawson, which took place in Shipley (correct).
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Free bdm infomation
Marriages Dec 1857
Hallas Lydia Bradford Yk 9b 169
Can't see the corresponding William Mawson Entry
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Interesting
Rennard Hollis Mawson born 1855 in Bradford, Yorkshire?
Rennard Hollis Mawson is listed as the son of Lydia Mawson on familysearch living in Idle Yorkshire in 1871
He is on census as Rennard Hollis - not Mawson.
His birth registration and marriage are both in the name of Hollis - no father given on marriage certificate.
He seems to disappear after 1881. :-\
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http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=97632838&ref=acom
Name: Rennard Hollis
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1903
Registration Year: 1903
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: North Bierley
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This 1891 census would suggest Rennard Hollis died between 1881 - 1889. It does though pose the question - why are Mary and Rennard's two daughters with Rennard's mother!
George Townsley 62, quarry lab. Brotherton
Ann Townsley 58, Brotherton
Mary Hawskworth 33, dau, married, weaver, Brotherton
Charles Townsley 14, Windhill
Alice A Townsley 13, Windhill
Walter Townsley 10, Shipley
Ann Hawskworth 2, grandau, Shipley
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Mary goes on to have 2 more daughters by 1901 - both in census as Hawksworth but at least one registered as Townsley. Annie Elizabeth born 1900.
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Hmm! Is this Mary's dau from 1891 census? and if so is Reubard a misread or mistranscribed name for Rennard?
Name: Ann Reubard Hawksworth
Registration Year: 1888
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Bradford
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 199
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1901, Shipley. I presume [not checked] Alice A Perkins is Alice A Townsley now married to Frederick.
Frederick Perkins 25
Alice A Perkins 22
Mary E Perkins 3
Charles Perkins 1
Walter Townsley 21
Ann Hawksworth 13
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Have to leave it now. Good luck in sorting it out; you'll need it there's so many twists and turns!
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it is becoming complicated so all depends on who us your ancestor, nicknock.
It is possible that Mary Townsley who marries Rennard Hollis, then marries George Henry Hawksworth.
A tree has his parents as Mary Townsley and Thomas Hawksworth so he could be Mary Hollis' cousin. If it is the same man, he is then living with another lady in 1901.
It is best not to try to unravel until we know who you are interested in. :)
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hi heywood, libby9 and whiteout7, thanks very much for your interest, and for your help. i'll try to do a bit of untangling...
libby9, you're right about the 1861 census not showing Rennard Hollis - i got mixed up and should have said 1871. and i hadn't thought to wonder where he actually was in 1861.
the 1823 marriage you found of william mawson and anne reynard is pretty compelling - so that's presumably where the name comes in.
whiteout7, in the marriage record i found for lydia holles and william (aka rennard?) mawson, his surname was transcribed as manson.
after the entry for rennard hollis and his family in the 1881 census, i found nothing more until reference to a grave for a rennard hollis, d. 13 Jun 1903, Shipley, buried Windhill Cemetery. i'm going to concentrate on finding his whereabouts in 1891 and 1901.
given the fact that rennard died in 1903, i'm interested in his wife mary hollis nee townsley re-marrying mr hawksworth before that date.... bears further investigation i think.
i started this investigation with a man called rennard mawson, who was sometimes called william - i can see now it's more accurate to say that he was actually william, and he appeared once (1861 census) as rennard. i still wonder why but perhaps i'll never know....?
lydia hollis is my husband's 2nd great grand aunt, according to ancestry.co.uk, so you can see i am really going off at a tangent. sometimes a family just grabs you :-)
apologies for the bitty-ness of this message - trying to cover all aspects :-)
and again, many thanks for all your time...
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There is a birth and death in 1903 for Rennard Hollis so it doesn't look as though it is your man.
The birth certificate for Rennard Hollis may help, although it is likely that it would not show a father's name.
There is a Rennard Townsley birth in 1900 so I think the name occurs within the area.
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oh right, that would make sense... and looking back over everyone's responses i can see that libby9 had already told me that. i was a bit overwhelmed by all the activity!
but, if rennard's widow is no longer mrs hollis, which hollis in shipley is giving birth to little boys called rennard? the mystery deepens.... a grandchild perhaps.
i need to go back over everyone's comments and digest them properly...
thankyou :)
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ps i did notice that rennard/reynard was quite a popular name in baildon too so perhaps it was quite common locally...
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Looking for children born to a William and Ann Mawson in Baildon, I found this.
Name: Walker Mawson
Parish: Baildon, St John the Evangelist
Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1824
Father's name: William Mawson, wool comber of Moorside
Mother's name: Anne Rennard
The entry next above is for Elizabeth Rennard dau of Benjamin, Benjamin may be Anne's brother.
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Name: Walker Mawson
Birth Year: abt 1824
Parish: Baildon, St John the Evangelist
Burial Date: 28 Jan 1828
Burial Age: 4