RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 11:06 BST (UK)

Title: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 11:06 BST (UK)
James William Kelly   b: 24 April 1838 in Wick, Scotland, died 9 June 1916 in Auckland New Zealand ... married [date and venue in NZ unknown] Mary Ann Carroll b: 16 July 1855 St Heliers, Jersey, Channel Islands, died 3 Jan 1931 Auckland New Zealand
Any details of James' emigration and marriage would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 30 March 15 12:10 BST (UK)
Hi

The following NZ marriage >

James William KELLY -- Mary CARROLL -  1875

Not able to give you the place of marriage sorry, as this information doesn't appear on the NZ Marriage Index.

The date though (deduced from NZ BDM online), was -- 17 June 1875.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 30 March 15 12:12 BST (UK)
Do you have the Probate Record for James William KELLY (year 1916), from the familysearch.org website ??

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 12:22 BST (UK)
Thank you Lu ... for deduced marriage date ... probably in Auckland. The emigration data on JWK is more important to us than the marriage place data. He may have gone to NZ via Australia c. 1860. His future wife was still in St Hellior in the 1871 Census. No .... I do not have the 1916 Probate info.
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 30 March 15 12:36 BST (UK)
Archives New Zealand Reference :

Probate Record:  James William KELLY -- Record # 19059 - Year:  1916 - Wellington Court

Here's how to find the Probate record (- it does not come up under a regular search of probate files so you need to go to the browseable images.)

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927083

> click on NZ Probate Records
> scroll to Browse through ...... images

> select "Wellington Court" -- Probate records 1916
> select P18967/16-P19068/16   [You're looking for Record # 19059 ]

As I've already found this, can tell you the Probate Record for James William KELLY begins at
Image # 499
.  [Just alter the image number in box provided at top of screen. ]

   ~  Lu


Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 30 March 15 12:42 BST (UK)
Hi again

While you're at the familysearch site, you can also check "NZ Immigration Passenger Lists" for James William.    ;)

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 15:55 BST (UK)
Thanks again for your help Lu ... got the Probate and a possible immigration date in 1875 to Auckland
Aye
DDJJAKE
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Monday 30 March 15 19:38 BST (UK)
James is buried in Purewa cemetery

http://purewa.need.co.nz/details.asp?id=40071&type=Burial

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Monday 30 March 15 19:59 BST (UK)
Here are the likely children for them

1876/2607    Kelly    Alexina/ Mary/James William   
1877/5526           Kelly    Talitha Mary/ Mary/James William   
1881/5163    Kelly    David /Mary/James William   
1885/3073    Kelly    Olive Edith/ Mary   /James William   
1889/16646       Kelly Kenneth Leith/ Mary/James William

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Monday 30 March 15 20:12 BST (UK)
a marriage for one of the daughters

1910/8339   Olive Edith    Kelly    to William Fellows    Grove

3 children up to the 100 yr cut off

1910/3688   Grove    Norman William    /Olive   /William Fellow   
1912/5077   Grove    Betty Mary    /Olive Edith   /William Fellows   
1913/2994   Grove    Harold Frederick /   Olive Edith   /William Fellows

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 20:28 BST (UK)
Cheers Janette .... I already had these folks
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Monday 30 March 15 20:30 BST (UK)
Thanks for the burial data for JWK
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 31 March 15 04:26 BST (UK)
Here is their marriage in the newspaper

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ODT18750705.2.12&srpos=3&e=--1868---1916--100--1-byDA---2j+w+kelly--

Mary Carrel eldest daughter of John late of St Helier Jersey

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 31 March 15 04:28 BST (UK)
A marriage for a sister of Mary

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=WC18780219.2.5&srpos=6&e=--1868---1916--100--1-byDA---2j+w+kelly--

This has James and Mary living in Dunedin

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Tuesday 31 March 15 08:11 BST (UK)
Many thanks Jannette for these two marriage clippings

DDJJAKE
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Friday 29 April 16 04:33 BST (UK)
James William Kelly   b: 24 April 1838 in Wick, Scotland, died 9 June 1916 in Auckland New Zealand ... married [date and venue in NZ unknown] Mary Ann Carroll b: 16 July 1855 St Heliers, Jersey, Channel Islands, died 3 Jan 1931 Auckland New Zealand
Any details of James' emigration and marriage would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Friday 29 April 16 04:43 BST (UK)
Hello Janet and welcome to RootsChat

You have quoted DDJ Jake's original post,what is it you are wanting help with?

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Friday 29 April 16 08:14 BST (UK)
Hi Janette

I was surprised to see the request by DDJ Jakes wanting information about my great grandfather.  I was hoping to find out what he wanted to know and also if he was asking because he may be connected to my ancestry in some way.   

I see that the original message was posted over a year ago and I just happened to google my great grandfather's name and came upon it.

Kind regards
Janet
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janette on Friday 29 April 16 09:03 BST (UK)
I see he has been online today so he may reply soon

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Friday 29 April 16 09:35 BST (UK)
Thanks Janette

Janet
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: DDJJake on Friday 29 April 16 09:39 BST (UK)
Not my blood line. I must have been trying to help a friend by asking for data on rootschat on his/her behalf.... but, sorry, I cannot for the life of me remember who that friend was. ... old age does not come alone ... I'm 76 .... Och!
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Friday 29 April 16 09:50 BST (UK)
Thanks for getting back - I know what you mean about 'old age not coming alone:-).  The friend you were helping is asking one the of the same questions I have been trying to find an answer to for years ie exactly when did Jame William Kelly arrive in New Zealand?  His death certificate indicates that he arrived in the mid 1860s.  I have since written a family history about James William Kelly and Mary Ann Carroll (my great grand parents) and know great deal  - except when he arrived in NZ!

It's the usual story; oh how I wished I had asked these questions of my grandfather - his son.  He lived until he was 98!

Thanks again
Janet
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 29 April 16 12:03 BST (UK)
Hi Janet,

Have you found JW on any census which may give a year of immigration?

Did he have siblings who emigrated & may be easier to find which may help?

What was his occupation on the earliest records you have of him prior to & after immigration?

Annie
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 29 April 16 12:50 BST (UK)
Found this but doesn't tell much....

A Return of the Freeholders of New Zealand, October 1882 Transcription

First Name   J W
Last Name   Kelly
Gender Unknown
Title   -
Occupation   -
Address   -
Country Lands County 1   Southland
Country Lands Acres 1   137
Country Lands Value 1   275
Total Value in ?   275
Year   1882
Country   New Zealand
Record set   New Zealand Land Records
Category   Census, land & surveys
Subcategory   Land & estates
Collections from   Australasia

Annie
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Friday 29 April 16 21:02 BST (UK)
Hi Annie

Thank you for the information regarding J W Kelly from Southland New Zealand; unfortunately (and just to confuse things) he is a different James William Kelly who was a politician in New Zealand. Thanks also for your suggestions - I have looked at ever possible angle and shipping list.  It is possible that he has come via Australia as many did and of course the name James Kelly is so common it doesn't help my search.

Thanks for you interest- it is appreciated.

Regards
Janet
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 29 April 16 21:14 BST (UK)
I couldn't find a James W Kelly on immigration lists for Australia/New Zealand......possibly didn't use his middle initial?

However, there were no details on any I looked at to give any clues (transcriptions) so could have been any of a few.

I opened 2 with actual photo's & it seems they have the wrong list with both as there was no-one named Kelly on either  ::)

You haven't said if you have any of these....

Have you found JW on any census which may give a year of immigration?

Did he have siblings who emigrated & may be easier to find which may help?

What was his occupation on the earliest records you have of him prior to & after immigration?

Annie
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: spades on Friday 29 April 16 22:20 BST (UK)
Hi Rosinish,

I had a quick check on Papers Past last night and found a couple of James KELLY's arriving at New Zealand ports. And there was James KELLY listed in an uncollected mail column which i think was 1862.

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

Spades
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 30 April 16 00:40 BST (UK)
Hi Spades,

Not sure what "Uncollected Mail" refers to  ???

Which port did he leave from & did it give P.o.b?

If there's a possibility of this being him, he should be still in Scotland on 1861 census or at least in the UK?

Annie
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: spades on Saturday 30 April 16 02:58 BST (UK)
Hi Rosinish,

It was a list of persons for which the post office held uncollected mail. These seem to have been published frequently over the years due to people's mobility in the colony.

Spades
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Saturday 30 April 16 03:17 BST (UK)
Hi All

I have extensive information about my great grandfather J W Kelly and written a family history about his life and family in New Zealand and also proven many DNA cousins from his Wick Caithness, Scotland  ancestry  - sharing family trees etc - it is just that 'unknown answer to the question regarding the ship he arrived in New Zealand in the 1860s.  I have search shipping list to no avail so I hope one day with more and more information being available on-line I will find the answer. 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Regards
Janet 
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: spades on Saturday 30 April 16 04:24 BST (UK)
Hi Janet and DDJJake,

Have either of you obtained a copy of the Intention to Marry Notice for James KELLY's 1875 marriage?

It might help you gauge his length of residence in the area where he married.

I can get this for you if you wish.

And have you checked local family history societies or NZSG branches for any information?

A James KELLY arrived at Auckland on 24 August 1864 per the Ironsides.

See Papers Past - New Zealand Herald, 25 August 1864, Page 2 PORT OF AUCKLAND.

Spades
Title: Re: James William Kelly emigration to NZ from Scotland ...when and how etc
Post by: Janet Kelly on Sunday 01 May 16 07:46 BST (UK)
Hi Spades

I do belong to the NZSG and I have found school records for his children one being my grandfather. They moved about the country as James W Kelly was a commercial traveller for Ross and Glendening of Dunedin from 1873 to 1887 and then the proprietor of the Egmont Hotel in Hawera, New Zealand form 1888 until 1901 when he retired to Auckland.

Thank you for your suggestion re the intentions to marry; I never thought of that and that may well have the date of his arrival in New Zealand.  I will check with Archives New Zealand and order a copy as I would think that can be done on-line.  I have the marriage record. 

Thanks again for your suggestion.

Janet