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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: franpow on Saturday 28 March 15 21:46 GMT (UK)
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My Grandfather Richard Haggett b.1893 Newport Mon d Sept 1948. Was put in Gloucester Prison when he was about 18yrs. I have no idea why, so I would love to find out the reason. Can anyone suggest how I go about this?
Thank you for any input
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Hi,
There is a newspaper article on Find My Past regarding a Richard Haggett (18) and Walter Taylor (18), both youths from Hardwicke Reformatory, who were charged with burglary at Mr Parsons house January 10th.
25 February 1911 - Gloucestershire Chronicle - Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Have not got full access, perhaps someone can fill in the gaps :)
Hardwicke Reformatory was about 4 miles south-west of Gloucester.
JJ
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Naughty Boys. Its wonderful reading about the past like this. Thank you very much
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Hi,
The record of his time in Gloucester Prison is held at Gloucestershire Archives.
Website: www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives
Victor
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Young Richard was also sent to prison for six weeks in 1909 when he was 16, for absconding from the Reformatory for a third time.
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Thank you for your wonderful help. Sadly I can be very dull when researching especially "The Archives" albeit I've tried, it just doesn't work for me. Again thank you for your amazing input
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Hi franpow,
I shall be in Gloucestershire Archives after the Easter break and am prepared to do a lookup at the Gloucester Prison records to see what I can find if you wish?
Victor
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Victor, I cant thank you enough. Yes Please I would be so grateful to you. If it should cost anything you must let me know I shall reimburse you in full.
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Hi,
I plan to visit the Archives on Tuesday, 7th April and will transcribe what I can find. There will be no charge. Will get back to you then.
Victor
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Thank you so much. Its very exciting
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Hi,
Okay, I didn't have enough time to check the prison records, but I did check the Gloucestershire Chronicle record.
Source: Glos Archives (GA) 1911 83 44005, Page 7, Gloucestershire Chronicle, February 25, 1911.
HARDWICKE REFORMATORY INCORRIGIBLES
Sentence of twelve and nine months' hard labour were passed respectively upon Richard HAGGETT (18) and Walter TAYLOR (18), both youths from Hardwicke Reformatory, who were charged with burglary at Mr George PARSONS' house in Quedgely, from which, on January 15th, they stole 15s 81/2d. in money, and some small articles. Mr J.H. BLOOD prosecuted. This was the second occasion on which the lads had broken out of the Reformatory, and the Judge said that their report showed them to be perfectly ingorrigible.
There are NO prison arrivals records, but there is another source called Prisoner Records. I have pre-ordered 3 files for scrutiny on my next visit and will transcribe what I find and get back to you.
Victor
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May I ask, Victor Harvey, whether the Penitentiary records add any detail about the offender over and above those included in the commital and trial proceedings at The Assizes. Date was 1830.
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Hi,
I don't know what data the GA prisoner records hold, but will transcribe what I find and get back to you after my next visit to GA on Saturday. As stated, I have pre-ordered the 3 files.
Victor
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Hi,
Source: Glos Archives (GA) Q/Gc/12/21, Page 7, Register Number 686
HAGGETT, Richard
Date & Place of Conviction - 14/10/1909, Wheatenhurst
Offence - Absconding from Reformatory School
Sentence - 6 weeks hard labour
Education - III
Age - 16
Height - 5' 3 1/4"
Hair - Dark Brown
Trade - Labourer
Religion - C 0f E
Birth Place - Newport, Mon
Date of Discharge of Expiration of Sentence - 24/11/1909
Date of Discharge of Expiration on Remission - 19/11/1909
Victor
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Hi,
Source: Glos Archives (GA) Q/Gc/12/22, Page 208, Register Number 1029
HAGGETT, Richard
Date & Place of Committal - 17/01/1911, Gloucester, R to 21st
Date & Place of Conviction - Assizes 15/02/1911
Offence - Burglary
Sentence - 12 months
Education - 3
Age - 17 11/12
Height - 5' 3 1/2"
Hair - Dark Brown
Trade - Labourer
Religion - C of E
Birth Place - Newport, Mon
Number of Previous Convictions - 6
Reference to last Entry - 132/D (1 Reformatory, Hardwicke)
Date of Discharge on Expiration of Sentence - 14/02/1912
Date of Discharge on Remission of Sentence - 17/12/1911
Remarks - Not treated as J.A.
Victor
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Thank you so much, you have brought him to life in many ways. I was always told stories of him, and his escapades, being rather short he was stocky and made up for his height by being a comical man. He was renowned around these parts for his tall stories yet he was acknowledged as a gentleman, Eventually.
Thank you again I'll show this to my mum, at 87yrs it'll be something she would enjoy reading. She loved her dad, as did the other 5 children he went on to have with his wife.
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franpow,
I don't know where you're based, but I thought you might like to see a photo of Gloucester Prison (no longer in use and just sitting empty). I visited Gloucester, and the Forest of Dean, back in October 2014 for some of my family history research. My great-grandfather was committed to prison for one month's hard labour in November 1922 for not paying money towards the upkeep of my great-grandmother, who was living in Westbury Workhouse. I've assumed it was Gloucester where he was sent, but this is something to follow up properly at some point.
Victor - a quick "hello" - you were kind enough to look at workhouse records for me in Gloucester Archives as I didn't have time to look at everything when I visited.
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Hi franpow & JaneyH_104,
It is my intention to check the photograph records of prisoners at Gloucester Prison to see if a photograph exists of Richard HAGGETT.
Glos Archives do not hold a complete record. I have previously checked the photograph records for another RootsChatterer and it proved unsuccessful on that occasion.
Fingers crossed.
Victor
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Victor,
If you are going to look at records for Gloucester prison again, would you be able to look for my great-grandfather? The name is Oliver William Bowdler, and he was born in 1883. The workhouse minutes dated 14 November 1922 state that "proceedings had been taken against this man under the Vagrancy Act for neglecting to maintain his wife, and that he had been committed to prison for one month with hard labour." I have assumed he would have been sent to Gloucester prison since Littledean Jail was only a court-house and police station by this date. Oliver lived in Newnham-on-Severn at this point in time.
In December 1922 he wrote to the Board of Guardians of the workhouse offering to pay ten shillings per month towards her upkeep.
There is absolutely no timescale for this - it was only a quick thought on the off-chance in case you are going to look at prison records in the Archives.
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Oh, Victor thank you so much, the only surviving photo of my Grandfather is very dark & he was some distance away.
How exciting all this is, my thanks again even if you are not successful thank you for trying.
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How wonderful to see such a place that housed Grandfather for a time. Thank you so much JaneyH_104, for bringing this photo to my attention.
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Hi JaneyH_104,
I have had to pre-order the Gloucester Prison file for Oliver William BOWDLER, reference Q/Gc/12/24, for next Tuesday, and will get back to you with my findings then.
Victor
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Hi franpow,
I have had to pre-order the Gloucester Prison file, reference Q/Gc/10/2, for next Tuesday and will get back to you.
I am not in possesion of a camera phone to photograph Richard HAGGETT, if one exists, but you will be able to order a copy from Glos Archives (GA).
I'll let you know Tuesday.
Victor
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Dear Victor,
Many thanks for your kind offer to look at these records for me. So far in my research (with over 1,100 people in my family tree (husband's & mine combined)) this is the first case I've come across of someone being sent to prison.
I look forward to hearing what you uncover!
Kind regards, Janey
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Victor no one has done anything like this ever, thank you so much for your time & effort. If any costs appear please let me know you will be reimbursed immediately.
Fran
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Hi Fran,
Source: Glos Archives (GA) Q/Gc/10/2, Gloucester Prison Photographs
I have checked the photograph album of prisoners but there is NO record of Richard HAGGETT in 1909 or 1911.
Victor
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Hi JaneyH_104,
Source: Glos Archives (GA) Q/Gc/12/24, Page 165, Register No 387:-
Name - BOWDLER, Oliver
Date & Place of Committal - Littledean, 10/11/(19)22
Offence - Neglect to maintain wife
Sentence - 1 month HL (Hard Labour)
Education - 4
Age - 38
Height - 5' 0"
Hair - Brown
Occupation - Motor Driver
Religion/Place of Birth - C of E, East Dean, Glos
Previous Convictions - ticked
Date of Discharge - 9/12/(19)22
I have pre-ordered the Previous Conviction files for next Saturday and will see if I can trace his previous conviction/s.
Victor
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Victor,
I've just got home from London to see this: what a wonderful surprise after a dull day in the office! Many, many thanks once again.
You mention the "previous convictions" box being ticked on the prison record from 1922. The only thing I'm aware of is a motoring offence in 1920. The Gloucester Journal newspaper reported on 4 September 1920 that Oliver was summoned before the Gloucester City Petty Sessions on a charge of driving a motor car insufficiently illuminated on 18 August, and of not having his identification plate illuminated. He was fined £1. At this time Oliver was involved in running a garage in Newnham, although the business was apparently wound up in 1921. I have a copy of a notice from the London Gazette stating that the business partnership between Oliver William Bowdler and James Watkins, carrying on business as automobile engineers, at Central Garage, Newnham, under the style of Bowdler & Watkins, was dissolved by mutual consent on 21 January 1921.
It would be fascinating to find whether the motoring offence was the only "previous" that my great-grandfather had, or whether there is more to uncover!
Kind regards, Janey
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Hi Janey,
I have already checked the Glos Archives (GA) Goal Database and Oliver does not appear there. The database does not show any entries as it only includes pre-1900 entries from memory.
You'll have to rely on the Gloucester Journal report, although I could provide you with a transcription, but you seemed to have covered that.
Victor
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Victor,
I had a brief subscription to the BNA website so I have the full text of the newspaper articles. Thanks once again though.
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Thank you Victor, I spoke to my mum today, revealing all that you had done for me. Her answer was "That her father was in the Army! so it couldn't be him
How strange. Thanks anyway
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Hi Janey,
Researching the previous convictions of Oliver BOWDLER is proving somewhat difficult. There is no index of prisoners so I am obliged to search each volume page by page. Each volume consists of 350 entries, so I have started working backwards from 1922.
The 2 volumes checked so far has taken me back to 1919 without success,
I have pre-ordered 2 more volumes, 1915-1919 & 1913-1915 for next Tuesday and will get back to you with my findings.
Victor
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Hi Janey
My visit to Glos Archives (GA) today proved fruitless. I checked 2 further volumes of the Record of Previous Convictions, 1913-1919, and still NO sign of Oliver BOWDLER.
I have pre-ordered 2 more volumes, 1910-1913, for next Saturday and will continue the search. This now adds up to 1,400 entries checked and is proving to be a bit tiring.
Victor
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Hi Janey,
I only managed to check 1 volume today, 1911-1913, but found nothing. The search continues next Tuesday. Only 5 volumes left!
Victor
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Hi Janey,
I have now completed the task of searching through the Previous Convictions, Gloucester Prison, some 10 volumes x 350 entries, 1888-1922, and there is NO trace of an entry for Oliver BOWDLER.
Victor
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Dear Victor,
I'm extremely grateful to you for devoting so much time to looking at the prison records for me. I'm sorry that it proved a fruitless search - perhaps my great-grandfather wasn't quite the rogue I feared, at least when it came to his dealings with the law.
Janey