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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Beavances on Thursday 26 March 15 11:53 GMT (UK)

Title: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Beavances on Thursday 26 March 15 11:53 GMT (UK)
Hi - Can anyone help to unlock any of the clues in this drawing? The drawing has been stored very carefully for years in an attic and has only recently come to light. There are some letters in the bottom right hand corner which say
Cpl M.F. 317
238 P.o.W.
Coy

The only other clue we have is that there is a return address on the tube in which it was stored  giving a return address in case it was undelivered. It says
Officer I/c records Grenadier Guards, Buckingham Gate . There is a three half pence stamp and the postmark is London SW7.

I am not even sure if this relates to  WW1 or WW2 but thought the amount of postage seemed more likely for WW1
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Thursday 26 March 15 12:21 GMT (UK)
If this is a drawing of it, 238 Prisoner of War Camp was Brookhouse, Apringly, Hayward’s Heath, WEST SUSSEX. WWII.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Beavances on Thursday 26 March 15 18:57 GMT (UK)
Thank you - I hadn't thought that it might be in England. I don't know much about WW research and had assumed that he must have been  prisoner of war somewhere . Having read up about Prisoner of War camps in England  this afternoon I can now see that this, a camp in England, is so much more likely.
Any ideas what the first three numbers might refer to? They are  317 and appear just after the initials, I presume they are too short for a service number.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: John915 on Thursday 26 March 15 23:06 GMT (UK)
Good evening,

Malky should have put Ardingly. This is the house and location.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34942427.html

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f13/ 

John915



Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Friday 27 March 15 07:15 GMT (UK)
"Malky should have put Ardingly. This is the house and location."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_World_War_II_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_the_United_Kingdom
WEST SUSSEX
No    Name    Location
46    Kingsfold Camp    Billingshurst
238    Brookhouse    Apringly, Hayward’s Heath
658    Barn House Farm    Shipley, Horsham

John, I leave the notification of correction in "Wikipedia" to you.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Beavances on Friday 27 March 15 12:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for you help in looking this up for me ....so its Apringly and not Ardingly??
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Friday 27 March 15 12:55 GMT (UK)
It should be "Ardingly" not Apringly. I have changed the Wikipedia entry.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: John915 on Friday 27 March 15 17:56 GMT (UK)
Good afternoon,

Thanks Malky, I wasn't sure where you got the spelling from. I used to work in Ardingly, live only a few miles away and so know the area.

In fact, one of my sons school friends used to live in one of the apartments there. Like a lot of big old houses it was converted into apartments years ago.

John915
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: newburychap on Saturday 28 March 15 23:06 GMT (UK)
I am not even sure if this relates to  WW1 or WW2 but thought the amount of postage seemed more likely for WW1
If the stamp has George V's or Edward VIII's head on it then WW1 it is; George VI's or Elizabeth II's head would be less conclusive.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: PaulKent on Thursday 16 April 15 18:37 BST (UK)
HI, I live at Brook House, Ardingly POW 238. It doesn't look familiar but then again there are many new trees here. I know where the foundations are for the POW huts so will take a look. We also have some etchings on the front pillars of the drive from POWs. I will see if I can dig out the photos for you

Kind regards

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Beavances on Saturday 18 April 15 14:30 BST (UK)
Thank you - this is so helpful and interesting! Do you have any idea of when the POW camp would have been built/prepared?
 I am still intrigued as to why such a careful drawing would have been done and stored by the Grenadier Guards.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Viktoria on Saturday 18 April 15 20:20 BST (UK)
 Sorry but George V did not die until January 1936, when Edward VIII acceded to the throne, so well after WW1, 1914-1918.
 Edward abdicated in 1936, then George VI became king   .Viktoria.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: newburychap on Saturday 18 April 15 22:18 BST (UK)
Sorry but George V did not die until January 1936, when Edward VIII acceded to the throne, so well after WW1, 1914-1918.
 Edward abdicated in 1936, then George VI became king   .Viktoria.
True, but a drawing of a WW1 could be posted any time after it was drawn - but a picture of a WW2 camp is unlikely to be sent before it was built.  So George V, Ed VIII means it was a WW1 camp.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Viktoria on Sunday 19 April 15 19:50 BST (UK)
Ah- I assumed it would be posted around the time it was drawn- that is why I queried it, also the mention of the two monarchs as making it definitely WW1 was confusing the issue.
There is something similar on Cannock Chase, which was for WW1 training but used in WW2 also.
                                             Viktoria.t
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Pete_Wood on Saturday 10 August 19 22:03 BST (UK)
You are all getting muddled. The drawing is by someone in 203 Prisoner of War Company. This was a WW1 Labour Battalion, formed in September 1918. They dug trenches and did other manual work, as well as looking after PoWs. They were stationed in Abbeyville, France. They then moved to St Omer, France, in January 1919.

The drawing is almost certainly the hut in which they stayed (slept at night).

Many of the men, in a PoW Company were those classed as unfit (previously wounded, older, had a current medical issue etc etc) for front line duties - and previously served in an infantry unit. You should try investigating your man, as having served in one of the Guards Regiments. He would almost certainly have received his medals as serving with 203 PoW Coy - and may even have been invalided out. Look for a Silver War Badge (SWB) in his name.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: Pete_Wood on Saturday 10 August 19 22:41 BST (UK)
I also think the 'tube' is probably that in which a memorial scroll was issued (to the next of kin of a soldier that was killed). It should have the address of the soldier's next of kin, on a label.

Google "memorial scroll and tube" to see some pictures

The 317 number is interesting as it is a very low number, which was issued at the beginning (if not earlier) of WW1.
Title: Re: Mystery Drawing
Post by: John915 on Saturday 10 August 19 23:19 BST (UK)
Good evening,

You are all getting muddled. The drawing is by someone in 203 Prisoner of War Company. This was a WW1 Labour Battalion, formed in September 1918. They dug trenches and did other manual work, as well as looking after PoWs. They were stationed in Abbeyville, France. They then moved to St Omer, France, in January 1919.

The drawing is almost certainly the hut in which they stayed (slept at night).

Many of the men, in a PoW Company were those classed as unfit (previously wounded, older, had a current medical issue etc etc) for front line duties - and previously served in an infantry unit. You should try investigating your man, as having served in one of the Guards Regiments. He would almost certainly have received his medals as serving with 203 PoW Coy - and may even have been invalided out. Look for a Silver War Badge (SWB) in his name.

This is all undoubtably true, but the number in the corner of the drawing is not 203. It says 238 PoW coy, a different unit altogether.

John915