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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Paparico on Tuesday 17 March 15 00:48 GMT (UK)
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Seeking photos/document/info regarding Edward Griffiths, claiming on Census reports to have been born 1864 in Treforest, but no birth record. Listed in 1871 Census as "nephew" to Margaret Williams Griffith, widow (m. Evan Griffith 12.II.1831 Llantrisant), but as her "son" in 1881 Census. Edward married Margaret Gwynn (dtr of Daniel Gwyn & Jane Evans) 27.IX.1886 Glyntaff, listing his father as, "William Grifffith, farmer" . Edward & Margaret's children were: Lemuel John Griffiths 1887, Mary Jane 1889, David William 1891, Catherine Anne 1893, Gwen 1896, Margaret Mary 1897, Edward Watkin 1900, Gwladys 1903, Olwen 1906/7. Lemuel John found his father hanging from a beam in the barn in 1907. Nothing is known of the fate of his mother or siblings, nor do we know the name of Edward's mother. Any information would be greatly appreciated!
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"Lemuel John Griffiths 1887, Mary Jane 1889, David William 1891, Catherine Anne 1893, Gwen 1896, Margaret Mary 1897, Edward Watkin 1900, Gwladys 1903, Olwen 1906/7. "
. . . . . Tegwedd born after Gwladys, before Olwen.
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Given Margaret is a widow in 1861, i doubt she is Edward's mother, but she has a son William b 1840 and some daughters so there is a possibility Edward is the illegitimate son of one of them
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What is the source of information regarding Edward Griffiths' daughters?
I did consider Margaret's son William might be the father, but could find no evidence linking the two; also, I would assume Margaret would have listed him as "grandson" - as she did Lemuel Price Griffiths - rather than "nephew". I also thought he might be the son of William the Bridgend watchmaker/butcher as he/wife/& other children all died in 1874 during the epidemic, but again could find no evidence. As Edward sired ten children, there MUST be some Griffiths descendents out there who know their family history!
Aloha, and thank you for your research!
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Hi
You wrote this . . . . .
"Edward Griffiths appears to have been born 25.III.1864 in Treforest, and Christened 16.V.1864, in Michaelston-super-Avon, Glamorganshire, Wales. "
How did you work that out?
Any detail available?
Ray
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There was an Edward Griffiths born on the 25 March 1864 and baptised at Michaelston Super Avon on the 16 May 1864, Parents William and Ann he was a Roller, their address was given as Cwmavon, both places are to the north of Neath, Glamorgan. Best wishes Rowley
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I'm a little confused why you think a Llantrisant child would be baptised to parents with an address in neath, or the child of someone from Bridgend, both some way away (in the terms of those days)
Where does Margaret call Lemuel P Griffiths her grandson? He isn;t with her in 1871, and is with his father William in 1881 and 1891 (and so that can't be the same person as the Bridgend William who dies in 1874.)
I am only speculating that her daughters (as listed on earlier censuses) could be Edward's mother. I have seen "nephew" used for an illegitimate grandchild before, as it's an easier way to hide the background
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Lemuel Price Griffiths was listed as "Grandson" by Margaret in the 1881 census. Some family histories show Lemuel Price as brother to Edward, some show Edward as the son of Watkin, but Probate for Watkin Griffiths lists him as a bachelor, so it would really be helpful for a family member to contact me so I would have a clue where to look for documentation.
Thank you for all your interest and assistance!
Aloha!
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they've put Edward as Watkin's son as he is listed after Watkin on the 1871 census and Ancestry have decided Watkin is his father, for some reason. Lemuel Price is on 1891 as William's son.
I think that as Margaret very carefully lists Lemuel and Edward as related to her in different ways only one is actually William's son and the other uses William's name as his father when he marries, for decency.
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Another reason people may connect Edward with Watkin is that Edward took on Watkin's farm - Lan Farm or Landraw Farm. Watkin died on 17 March 1891 - his wife (un-named in the newspaper) died a few days later and they were buried together. It mentions two young children being left behind. (edward was later convicted of selling watered down milk!)
bit of a sad family - they appear to have lost a 16 yr old relative in 1886 in a boating accident in Monmouth. the lad was called Job Rees - son of William and Ann. As almost the full range of Griffths men were amongst the chief mourners (William, Richard, Watkin, Lemuel and Lemuel jnr, Edward) and a mystery "Mrs Griffiths" - could this be Margaret? - and the fact Mrs rees was born in llantrisant I think she must be their sister.
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Where are you finding all this news? I did find where a Watkin Griffiths married late in life, but discarded that as Probate lists Watkin as a bachelor whose brother was listed as Executor. Watkin's father, Evan Griffiths died poor in Llantrisant,, so I suspect mother Margaret William Griffiths inherited Law/Llandraw Farm when her father died, but doubt she would leave it to Watkin, as her other children were more responsible and likely to produce heirs. Also, the total of Edward and Watkin's effects were insufficient to operate a dairy farm so perhaps it was held in trust or as a tenancy. I would have thought this family would be in the news, but have only been able to find the obituary for Edward, so I do thank you for all the new information you have provided. Aloha!
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The probate registry entry I have found for Watkin of Llan Draw farm died March 1891 says nothing about his marital status. Adminsitration was giiven to Richard Griffiths, Apple Tree Shop Dinas - definitely the right family given this obit of William, father of Lemuel Price, and its mention of said shop
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3830162/ART10/apple%20tree%20shop
Sorry yes it does say a bachelor - but at the same time the address and date fit an item about the death of Watkin and wife, and indeed later something relating to burial fees and his orphans
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3811532/ART34/landraw%20farm
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3019244/ART42/lan%20farm
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Also this profile (with picture) of Lemuel Price Griffiths, mentioning how he was brought up by his grandmother at Lan Farm
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3828414/ART26/apple%20tree%20shop
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Wow! You are awesome! You have accomplished more in one day than I have done in almost 50-years of research! I have wasted hundreds of hours searching South Wales newspapers to no avail! Margaret Williams Griffiths was the daughter of Watkin Williams, who died 12.II.1849. Her husband, Evan Griffith died in 1860, so I am not quite sure why Edward & Lemuel Price were given to her to raise. William certainly had the wherewithal to support his son, but at least now I know why Lemuel Price Griffiths was able to marry so successfully and leave £31, 214.14s to his widow! Still a mystery why her sons helped William at his store rather than their mother on the farm, but it seems she not afraid to put in a good day's work! As I have been unable to locate any of Edward's descendents, at least now I can hope some of Lemuel John Griffiths offspring will enlighten me. Mahalo nui loa! Rico
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Many thanks to Kelly Littleton, who sent me a copy of an 1876 Mill Street Boarding School, Pont-y-pridd, registration for Edward Griffiths, listing Edward's DOB as July, 1864, his father to be William Griffiths! I still have no knowledge of which William Griffiths was Edward's father (who apparently was still alive in 1876, yet Edward was living with Margaret Griffiths as her "nephew") nor any indication of Edward Griffiths' mother, so remain hopeful that someone with that knowledge will respond. Edwards home is listed as "Lan Draw Farm", so I would also be delighted to hear from anyone with knowledge of that farm!
Aloha!
Rico
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Lan Draw Farm seems to be the family farm where Watkin was living when he died. I think, given in the present day there are Landraw Woods and a Landraw Road, the farm would have been just up the Rhondda Valley from Pontypridd, near the current Barry Sidings Country Park
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Mahalo! My Ex was born at Maes-y-Deri, Graigwen, just down the road from the farm just shy of 40-years of Edward's death, yet neither she nor her father professed any knowledge of it, which has made researching Edward so difficult! I do not understand how a family can lose its history in only 40-years! I re-read the newspaper account of Watkin, which clearly states Lan Draw farm, but am completely mystified as to why William Griffiths did not step in to save Watkin's orphans unless the children were not Watkin's! I found where Watkin married Matilda Richards, but her three children had different fathers, none of them Watkin. I wondered if the estrangement was because Edward bit the bullet for watered down milk to William's store, as despite his alleged integrity, William made considerable money from his store. I am still seeking information about Edward's wife, Margaret Gwyn, and the fate of her three children Gwladys, Olwen, & Tegwedd!
Aloha!
Rico
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I have since discovered Margaret Gwynn, wife of Edward Griffiths died 15.IX.1914 in Pontypridd, leaving her <£240 Estate in the hands of son Lemuel John, and farmer Francis Davies. Margaret Gwynn's line descends from a Lavernock farming family erroneously transcribed as "David" by familysearch.org (David Gwynn married 1786 Mary George, George children erroneously dubbed "James"). familysearch.org say correction is not an "emergency" as people can still buy a copy of documents. This error was discovered from Census reports listing John Gwynn's (Bp: 05.IX.1802) place of birth as Colter rather than Cogan, Glamorganshire. John's siblings were: Mary Gwynn 02.VI.1794, David, 03.II.1788, Jane, 14.XII.1806, Elizabeth 31.VII.1796, and William, 18.IX.1799 per BT Film No. 104875.
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It suddenly occurred to me this afternoon to research an Edward born 3Q 1864 Pont-y-pridd and there are only 4, one of which is Edward Davies Volume 11A Page 295. I never thought of a Davies being Edward's mother, but that certainly fits with Margaret Williams Griffiths and children moving on to Lan Draw Farm and Ann Davies Williams moving off when her husband died. But I still don't know how Francis Davies came into Lan Draw Farm after marrying Edward's daughter, nor who had possession between Watkins death in 1891 and Francis' marriage. I would love to hear from anyone with the history of Lan Draw Farm and/or from anyone who knows why Margaret raised Lemuel Price Griffiths and Edward Griffiths. I can't read Welsh, so I have never found an obituary nor grave for Margaret despite her prominence. All help greatly appreciated! Aloha! Rico