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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 11:28 GMT (UK)

Title: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 11:28 GMT (UK)
Please help me find a missing husband!

George Higgison (son of George & Judith/Julia Whatton) born Birmingham 31 Dec 1832.  On the 1841 Census, George junior has become William.

He married Mary Gibson in 1859 in Preston.  I can't find either of them in the 1861 Census and I can only find Mary in 1871 in Preston along with 3 children Charles, Ellen and Mary Ann

Can anyone help find husband George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?

Thank you.  LC
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 13:20 GMT (UK)
Hello,
On his marriage, his age is 21 yrs - born about 1838  :-\
Where is he in 1851?

Heywood
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 13:58 GMT (UK)
Hey Heywood,

I have birth cert so certain of the year, 1832.  Haven't found him on 1851 yet either. 

LC
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: groom on Monday 16 March 15 14:21 GMT (UK)
Hey Heywood,

I have birth cert so certain of the year, 1832.  Haven't found him on 1851 yet either. 

LC

I'm a bit confused, how can you have a birth certificate for 1832, when registration didn't start until 1837?
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 14:34 GMT (UK)
I meant birth registration, obviously.  Not birth certificate.

LC
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 16 March 15 14:40 GMT (UK)
I have birth cert so certain of the year, 1832.  Haven't found him on 1851 yet either. 

Looks like George died & William is a different son  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 14:44 GMT (UK)
Why do you say that?  What is the evidence please?
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 16 March 15 14:51 GMT (UK)
What is the evidence please?

My reply was "looks like" (a possibility) but......................change of name & 6 yrs is quite a margin of error for his age at time of marriage  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 14:56 GMT (UK)
OK Annie, I understand your theory.  Even so, where is William and wife Mary in 1861 and where is William in 1871 - that's what I really need to know.  If these can be found, we might make a huge leap forward! 
Title: Re: Looking for a husband !
Post by: jan57 on Monday 16 March 15 15:03 GMT (UK)
Hey Heywood,

I have birth cert so certain of the year, 1832.  Haven't found him on 1851 yet either. 

LC

I'm a bit confused, how can you have a birth certificate for 1832, when registration didn't start until 1837?


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYBJ-LZZ   Baptism record  has  a  dob  on it 
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 16 March 15 15:04 GMT (UK)
Yes but you need to have an open mind as we are very analytical where genealogy is concerned........a bit like forensics  :P

Sometimes things which don't seem right, immediately jump out at you which casts doubts when the obvious should be evident  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 15:14 GMT (UK)
Is this him?

1910 death -William Higgison born abt 1838

1901 William Higgison 65 yrs abt 1836

1900 John Albert marries - father George William

1881 William Higginson 46 yrs born abt 1835

There is a gap between children in 1881 - Ellen 16 yrs then Albert 9 yrs and Mary's place of birth is different. Is this the same Mary?
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Kay99 on Monday 16 March 15 15:36 GMT (UK)
1851?? :-\

William Higginson Lodger 18 b Not Known
Living at Slater Ford Cottage, Slater Lane, Leyland,
HO107 Piece 2262 Folio 440 Page 31

Kay
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: arthurk on Monday 16 March 15 16:56 GMT (UK)
Hello,
On his marriage, his age is 21 yrs - born about 1838  :-\

Sometimes registers have "21 yrs" when what they mean is "21 yrs and upwards" - in other words it's a way of indicating that the person is an adult and no-one else's consent needed to be sought, but without necessarily implying any exact age.

You can sometimes work out if this is what's happened by looking at other entries in the register: if there are more than you'd expect which say "21 yrs", and especially if there are none with ages above 21, then they probably can't be relied on for calculating dates of birth.

Arthur
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 17:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your input Arthur.

heywood - the list you sent with possibles - are all events in Preston?

LC

Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 17:18 GMT (UK)
Yes, Preston.
Arthur, yes that could be the explanation.

I notice that Ellen was registered as Ellen Mason Higgison and it looks as though Charles was buried as Charles Mason Higgison.

There is baptism for John Mason Higgison in 1809, Birmingham - parents William and Mary.
Would William and Mary be your George's parents?

Still can't find them in 1861 though - nor William in 1871   :-\
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 17:25 GMT (UK)
Hello,
On his marriage, his age is 21 yrs - born about 1838  :-\

Sometimes registers have "21 yrs" when what they mean is "21 yrs and upwards" - in other words it's a way of indicating that the person is an adult and no-one else's consent needed to be sought, but without necessarily implying any exact age.

You can sometimes work out if this is what's happened by looking at other entries in the register: if there are more than you'd expect which say "21 yrs", and especially if there are none with ages above 21, then they probably can't be relied on for calculating dates of birth.

Arthur

No real evidence for this in the register but who knows!
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: willsy on Monday 16 March 15 20:31 GMT (UK)
Is this the family 1881?

William c 1835

RG11/4241/125/12
5, Chews Yard, Preston, Lancashire
William Higginson Head Married 46 Auctioneer Birmingham, Northamptonshire
Mary Higginson Wife Married 45 Charwoman Bromley, Kent
Charles Higginson Son Single Male 20 Joiners Porter Preston, Lancashire
Ellen Higginson Daughter Single 16 Housekeeper Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Albert Higginson Son Male 9 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
Hannah Higginson Daughter 7 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
Julia    Higginson Daughter 3 Scholar Preston, Lancashire

Can see where Heywood is coming from
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: willsy on Monday 16 March 15 20:46 GMT (UK)
And just to throw an interesting one in

1851 HO107/2095/443/45
William Higgison Servant Unmarried Male 15 1836    Serv    Birmingham, Warwickshire
Residing in a caraven with a travelling stallman in Lincs
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Monday 16 March 15 22:15 GMT (UK)
Will take a look at all this tomorrow and try to make sense of it.  Thank you all for your input  .. for now!
LC
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 22:58 GMT (UK)
And just to throw an interesting one in

1851 HO107/2095/443/45
William Higgison Servant Unmarried Male 15 1836    Serv    Birmingham, Warwickshire
Residing in a caraven with a travelling stallman in Lincs

I thought he was a good bet - he was a hard ware dealer on marriage and it could fit  :-\ However the chap in Leyland is closer  :)
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 16 March 15 23:21 GMT (UK)
1851 HO107/2095/443/45
William Higgison Servant Unmarried Male 15 1836    Serv    Birmingham, Warwickshire
Residing in a caraven with a travelling stallman in Lincs
I thought he was a good bet - he was a hard ware dealer on marriage and it could fit  :-\ However the chap in Leyland is closer  :)

William is a Servant...its the other person who's the Travelling Stallman"....................a slight error maybe thinking William was the Stallman  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: willsy on Monday 16 March 15 23:25 GMT (UK)
Had William as servant, it was the birthplace that made me note it down here :)
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 16 March 15 23:35 GMT (UK)
There is baptism for John Mason Higgison in 1809, Birmingham - parents William and Mary.
Would William and Mary be your George's parents?

Heywood, that theory seems valid going by George Jnr being George William  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 March 15 23:50 GMT (UK)
1851 HO107/2095/443/45
William Higgison Servant Unmarried Male 15 1836    Serv    Birmingham, Warwickshire
Residing in a caraven with a travelling stallman in Lincs
I thought he was a good bet - he was a hard ware dealer on marriage and it could fit  :-\ However the chap in Leyland is closer  :)

William is a Servant...its the other person who's the Travelling Stallman"....................a slight error maybe thinking William was the Stallman  ???

Annie

Yes I know- I thought he might be learning the trade. It would be difficult in a caravan not to pick up a few tips.  :)

However, we don't know if it is our man!
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 17 March 15 00:05 GMT (UK)
Sorry, wasn't "nitpicking".......just thought with the excitement of a sighting there was a slight error as I've done it myself..................seen what I wanted to see in my hurry but got it now  ;D

I think my head is "minced" with the name George as another query I'm participating in, is named George..............fascinating but enigmatic to say the least but very enjoyable   :P

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 March 15 00:22 GMT (UK)
I didn't think you were  :) I just thought I had better explain my 'reasoning'  ;)
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: iminandover on Tuesday 31 March 15 20:07 BST (UK)
1851?? :-\

William Higginson Lodger 18 b Not Known
Living at Slater Ford Cottage, Slater Lane, Leyland,
HO107 Piece 2262 Folio 440 Page 31

Kay
Checked the image for this and found there is a transcription error and his age is actually 78
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: las camelias on Tuesday 31 March 15 22:04 BST (UK)
Thank you Kay for taking the time.

LC
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 31 March 15 22:35 BST (UK)
Thank you Kay for taking the time.

LC

Are you and iminandover the same person or both just searching for the same family?

In this thread, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716918.0, I found Fishwick Yard in 1851 but not 1861. Perhaps it is missing from the census and the Higgisons could be in the same area and also missing.  :-\
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: iminandover on Wednesday 01 April 15 09:08 BST (UK)
We're not the same person - but we do know each other and I happened to mentioned to las camellias about the problems I was having with George.  When I saw the query on here I decided I would try and find his wife Mary.  They are both proving very elusive and as they are direct ancestors I need to fill this gap to continue the line.

I think I might have to start checking the 1861 Census against a street map to see if any areas are missing.  It wouldn't be the first time it has happened...
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 April 15 10:37 BST (UK)
What is William's occupation on the birth certificates of the children?

There are these births and addresses - do you have any others?

June 1859 marriage: Back Lane and Fishwick Yard - Wm is a Hardware dealer

1862 birth and baptism of Charles: Everton Gardens - Wm. is a Labourer

1864 birth Ellen Mason b Chesterfield

1866 birth Mary E, Preston - is this the Mary Ann in 1871?

1871 census Swarbrick Yard

1871 Albert b Preston

1874 Hannah b Preston

1878 Julia b Preston

1881 census Chews Yard

The births are spaced but there are gaps where another child could have been born or William was absent.
It is strange that there are no other baptisms other than Charles to be found.
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: iminandover on Wednesday 01 April 15 11:23 BST (UK)
1862 birth Cert of Charles: Everton Gardens - Wm. is a General Salesman no mention of Mason in Charles name field, mother Mary Formerly Gibson

1864 birth Cert Ellen Mason b Chesterfield Wm. is an Auctioneer mother as above

1866 birth Mary E, Preston - is this the Mary Ann in 1871? Yes and all other info is same as Ellen Mason

1871 Albert b Preston  Birth Cert Wm is General Dealer, marriage (1900) says father is George William, Auctioner.  By then Albert is calling himself John Albert.

1874 Hannah b Preston Marriage entry 1895 Wm. is an Auctioneer

1878 Julia b Preston

William died in the Workhouse 23rd December 1906, occupation Hardware Salesman.  There is an official alteration to his age on his death cert. - originally given as 74 (presumably by Wm himself on admission to the Workhouse) which ties in with the Birmingham baptism I have, but his children had it changed to 'about 68' which is closer to the 21 on his marriage certificate.

I'm very grateful for all the effort everyone has put in - this brick wall WILL be broken!
Title: Re: Looking for a husband ! George aka William Higgison in 1861 and 1871 ?
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 April 15 15:02 BST (UK)
It's frustrating that he is absent from two censuses. Thinking aloud.
Looking at occupations on certificates, it doesn't look as though he opted for a bit of military service.
As both are not in 1861, it looks like an omission or they didn't register.
1871 - working away; prison; workhouse - hospital  :-\