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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: hunkyhywel on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: hunkyhywel on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:29 GMT (UK)
I am looking for any record of the "Phethean" family after 1841.

I have them in 1841 census, living in Flash, Bolton, Lancs
John (Johnathon) Lomax Phethean b.1802 (Occupation Crofter)
Margaret Phethean b.1809 (Wife)
Alice b.1829 (Daur)
Mary b.1831 (Daur)
John b.1833 (Son)
Margaret b.1836 (Daur)
Elizabeth b.1838 (Daur)
Ann b.1840 (Daur)

Then POOF! THEY VANISH!

Margaret (1836), whom I am researching, reappears after having married but I never see the family again. No idea where they disappear to. Think maybe it has something to do with a mis-transcription of Phethean but couldn't find any.
I have searched FamilySearch and GenesReunited.

Any help gratefully received!

Hywel
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:37 GMT (UK)
Margaret is a widow in the 1851 in Breightmet, Lancashire
Margret Phethean aged 41
year of birth circa 1810
Head of household - widow
Born in Breightmet in Lancashire
Bolton Tong 3b 29
Piece   2208 Folio   131 Page 11
Other Household Members include
Margret Phethean   41
John Phethean           18
Margret Phethean   15
Elizebeth Phethean   13
Ann Phethean           10
Harriet Phethean    5
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:41 GMT (UK)
And there are two death refs for a John Phethean in Bolton between 1841 and 1851, one in 1843 and one in 1847.

Have the refs if you need them


Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:49 GMT (UK)
Son John, bn 1833 is on 1861 in Breightmet, with wife Jane and son Henry.
So the name carries on for another generation!

He can be seen on other censuses too, at least one other son.
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: MaureeninNY on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:50 GMT (UK)
Mum Margaret re-marries:
Marriages Mar 1859
LORD James and  Phithean Margaret  Bolton 8c 306

Maureen
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 10 March 15 18:58 GMT (UK)
Henry on 1881
RG 11 3827 88 36
With three sons already! No sign of the name dying out yet!

And on 1901 with lots more children , and parents John (thats the one bn 1833) and Jane are there too
RG 12 3629 101 23
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 10 March 15 20:34 GMT (UK)
And there are two death refs for a John Phethean in Bolton between 1841 and 1851, one in 1843 and one in 1847.

Have the refs if you need them

LancashireOPC has the 1843 burial
24 June 1843 at St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire
John Phethian -
age 65 years
abode Breightmet
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 10 March 15 20:38 GMT (UK)
Sounds good, Rosie.  :)
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 10 March 15 20:40 GMT (UK)
Daughter Margarets marriage from lancashireOPC

3 July 1864 at Holy Trinity, Bolton
William Higham age  31 occ Furnace Tenter -  Bachelor, abode Nelson St
Margaret Phethean age 28 occ Warper - Spinster, abode Daubhill
Father of groom Robert Higham occ Chemical Maker
Father of bride John Phethean occ Crofter
Witnesses Thomas Higham and  Harriet Phethean
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 10 March 15 20:45 GMT (UK)
Daughter Alices marriage
19 May 1850 at St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire
Robert Grundy age 22, occ Spinner, Bachelor, abode Little Hulton
Alice Phethean age 21, Spinster, abode Little Hulton
Father of groom Thomas Grundy, occ Weaver
Father of bride John Phethean, occ Crofter
Witnesses  Abrm. Boardman and William Horrabin


and daughter Marys
8 September 1850 at St Peter, Bolton
Thomas Hindley Full age -occ Comb Maker, Bachelor, abode Great Bolton
Mary Phethean Full age - Spinster, abode Breightmet
Father of groom John Hindley, occ Carter
Father of bride John Phethean, occ Crofter
Witnesses  George Heywood and  James Liptrot
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 10 March 15 20:50 GMT (UK)
In the late 1950s and early 60s the Town clerk at Boston Lincs was named Phythian. I wonder if this is a modern spelling of the same surname?
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 10 March 15 22:21 GMT (UK)
In the late 1950s and early 60s the Town clerk at Boston Lincs was named Phythian. I wonder if this is a modern spelling of the same surname?

I think it's quite likely - see this

http://onomastics.co.uk/forum/anthroponymy/origins-of-the-phethean-surname/

Apparently likely to be a variant of Vivian
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 11 March 15 07:00 GMT (UK)
John dies before 1851
Margaret remarries 1859 to James Lord
Alice b.1829 marries Robert Grundy in 1850
Mary b.1831 marries Thomas Hindley in 1850
John b.1833 marries Jane as lizdb's post
Margaret b.1836 marries William Higham in 1864

so just these two to locate
Elizabeth b.1838
Ann b.1840
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 11 March 15 08:17 GMT (UK)
Possibility for Elizabeth
Marriage
Jan/Feb/Mar 1859
Bolton
Ref 8c 353
Elizabeth Phethean to either DavidHampson or Charles Fletcher
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 11 March 15 09:14 GMT (UK)
Possibility for Elizabeth
Marriage
Jan/Feb/Mar 1859
Bolton
Ref 8c 353
Elizabeth Phethean to either DavidHampson or Charles Fletcher

That looks good lizdb  :)

From lancashirebmd
Index for the year 1859
PHETHEAN   Elizabeth   
FLETCHER   Charles   
Bolton, St James, Breightmet   
Bolton   49/1/32
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: IgorStrav on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:39 GMT (UK)
I think we're still tracking Ann, born 1840?

There are two Ann Phetheans born around the same time, but ours is the one born in April qtr 1840, baptised August 1840 as the parents are John and Margret.

What about this marriage?

Oct qtr 1861
Bolton
8c
299

to possibly
James Cullen
Richard Leather
John Morris

Ancestry suggests that the other Ann married John Makin

Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: hunkyhywel on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:39 GMT (UK)
Wow guys! Thanks so much!

I think GenesReunited might have some holes in its records. I couldn't find the 1851 census record for them at all. I think I remember seeing an 1861 census for a family "Lord" and dismissing it! I'll have to check it again.
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:51 GMT (UK)
I think we're still tracking Ann, born 1840?

There are two Ann Phetheans born around the same time, but ours is the one born in April qtr 1840, baptised August 1840 as the parents are John and Margret.

What about this marriage?

Oct qtr 1861
Bolton
8c
299

to possibly
James Cullen
Richard Leather
John Morris

Ancestry suggests that the other Ann married John Makin

The father of that one according to LancashireOPC was Joseph whose occupation was a Manufacturer.

hunkyhywell, have you tried looking for these families on
LancashireOPC http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
and LancashireBMD 
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/


You may be able to follow them and their children.  ;)
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: Kamilla on Wednesday 11 March 15 16:19 GMT (UK)
Phethean. Family name associated with Ladybarn Manchester 19. Possibly death reg ( over last 10 years) may reveal some info.
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: andrewalston on Wednesday 11 March 15 23:15 GMT (UK)
There is a Phethean One Name Study. The researcher may have details of this family.

Details at http://www.phethean.org.uk, or via http://www.one-name.org
Title: Re: Unusal name family disappears! "Phethean"
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 12 March 15 13:49 GMT (UK)
When I saw this heading, it attracted my attention. It's not one of mine, but in East Lancs I'd seen it spelled "Pythean". I'd had the idea it was a name with loads of variant spellings, and may have had Cornish connections?