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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: cathy23 on Sunday 08 March 15 17:37 GMT (UK)
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I have been trying without success to find any birth records for Catherine M Comerford (RC) I have her marriage certificate which shows her 'of full age' in 1886 yet only 32 years in 1901 Census. I am looking at a range of between 1864 and 1870 ish, she must have told a fib somewhere along the line.I only have her father's name and am now a bit stuck as to where else to look. if anyone has any tips they would be very much appreciated.
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Hi There
I have looked at your other posts and see that Catherine's father was called Matthew !
I also see that Catherine married in Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire).
Matthew Comerford is a rareish name so I'm looking at this couple as possible parents to Catherine givent that they were having children in Kingstown in and around the time that Catherine was born !
MATTHEW COMERFORD AND ANNE CULLEN
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5YH-H5H
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F51C-4HY
What is unusual though is that there appears to be a much later marriage for this couple !
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c64b230026664
Tara
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You mentioned on another board that you didn't think he was a BUTLER based on a later find and a much different occupation.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=715033.msg5586639#msg5586639
Are you working on this person as being YOUR Matthew Comerford ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay__part_of_/Kevin_Street__Upper/81005/
If so, that chap was married to an Elizabeth Archbold !
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/d08aef0067315
What's funny is that this other Matthew also appears to have had numerous children before the marriage. ???
Tara
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Sorry, I should have posted the census to the Matthew Comerford whom was married to Anne Cullen !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Peter_Street/1342260/
Tara
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Thanks Tara, I think I have been working on Matthew (or Mathew) being married to an Elizabeth, I can't remember why I think that. I just can't find a record record for Catherine M Comerford anywhere, that is the key and even then, can never really be sure that it is the correct Catherine as only have father's name! As exciting as this is, it is also frustrating!!!!
Cathy :)
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So who's this Mathew
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00045.pdf
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I noted that your Catherine's first daughter was called Anne !
Another loose link to the Anne Cullen possibility.
Where have you been looking for Catherine's records ?
IF she was born in Kingstown, the only real place to look is on IFHF, but they currently only do a months subscription for €30.
Her birth may not have been registered !
She was born very close to the beginning of civil registration in 1864 so a lot of people were not yet in the practice of getting their paperwork civilly registered.
A few other thoughts :
YOUR Matthew may be neither of the gentlemen on the 1901 Census, it's very possible that he died before then.
Also, re the occupation, you have Matthew as a Butler in 1886 ~ 15 years is a LONG time. He may have gone on to learn to be a Range Setter by 1901.
As I say, just a few thoughts and possibilities !
Tara
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HUM
A Butler to a Gentleman in 6 years might be a stretch THEN AGAIN I've heard of stranger ;D ;D
Tara
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VERY Confused
The 1901 Matthew and the 1911 Matthew appear to be one and the same person !
Wife's name is Anne in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Peter_Street/1342260/
Yet Elizabeth in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay__part_of_/Kevin_Street__Upper/81005/
I am presuming that Anne is an error on the 1901 Census as the names of the children match up to the ELIZABETH ARCHBOLD on irishgenealogy records.
Have you gotten all of Catherine's children's baptism's ?
Are ANY Comerfords named as Godparent's ?
None are named on those that I can see on irishgenealogy.
HUM, I can't say that I can see any good links to YOUR Catherine and this Matthew on the 1901 / 1911 Census.
Tara
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have been a bit of a novice as far as searching is concerned, I don't have a clue where I got the idea that Catherine's mother was called Elizabeth, as you say Anne is more likely - due to daughter being Anne and there is a Matthew and also a John and Louisa which are Catherine's in-laws names. Her birth certificate would be most helpful. I be in Dublin in May, was there last week and spent my time in Library, apart from when visiting relatives. Perhaps I could do some more in depth research then.
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A few things to try to see if the 1901 / 1911 Matthew is YOUR chap.
One would be to get the actual cert for his marriage to Elizabeth Archbold to get an occupation !
Another would be to get the birth cert for Robert Comerford in 1887. Given that this was the year after Catherine married, if the Matthews are one and the same then the occupation SHOULD be a close match.
Another would be to get a birth cert for this girl :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5YH-H5H
The occupation for this girls father could be the deciding factor !
Tara
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1901 census does have Elizabeth as wife, Ann is sister but now completely not convinced these are my Comerfords
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Tara, I think I have some baptism records in my paperwork somewhere I will need to find it to check out who Godparents were, I cannot find all Baptism records for every child! I will check
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Hi Cathy,
If Catherine was from a Dublin City family then I would have expected her to be married in one of the Dublin City churches, BUT she married in Kingstown !
If Catherine was from the Matthew Comerford family on the Census then I would have expected some of them to be Godparents to her children, given close proximity, YET they don't appear to be !
If Catherine was from the Matthew Comerford family on the Census then I would have expected her first or second daughter to be called Elizabeth BUT it wasn't.
None of the above is conclusive but added up to the rather different occupations for Matthew it's leading me to think it's not the correct family that you are working with.
I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything !
Tara
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Catherine's address in 1886 was Wellington Street, which was in Kingstown (now Dun Laoghaire).
This could be a total coincidence ???
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/Wellington_Street/1319681/
Tara
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Hi Tara it is possible they are related as perhaps Matthew's brother?
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I have pretty much accepted that I have the wrong Comerford family, I have no idea what led me there in the first place :(
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I will get Birth Certificate for Robert, whose second name is Louis, which is the name of a son of Catherine and my grandfather although his Birth Certificate says Lewis and several records also say Lewis but he was Louis when he got married it is the same person and I have managed to verify that with an 89 year old relative from a picture of his Merchant navy records from 1918-1921.
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This is the details that you need to get the birth cert of Annie Comerford (if you wish).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY5T-86Y
This is the girl that I'm touting as a possible sister to Catherine.
The occupation of her father will 'hopefully' be close to Butler.
If it is then we can work on that family !
Tara
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This is another VERY long shot BUT in 1866 an Edward Quinn got married from Wellington Street AND his best man was a Matthew Comerford !!!!!!!!!!
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7fe64a0064498
Tara
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Okay, the Rathdown connection is interesting in this. assuming Robert is also a son and brother to Annie it should be helpful. Rathdown has huge a connection for my family. Does Rathdown Dun Laoghaire area too?
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Tara you are amazing, I don't know how to begin to search for the 'extra' links that can be found online. For me, I find it hard to stay focused on one thing and when I find something I start going off on a tangent all the time , but my primary focus now is finding Catherine Comerford's family and I will scrub everything I thought I knew from and try and obtain Annie and Robert's Birth Certificates. I meant to ?say in previous post does Rathdown encompass Dun laoghaire
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HA I'm afraid that you are going off tangent again Cathy !
Robert Louis Comerford is the son of Matthew Comerford and Elizabeth Archbold
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0006680012409
He is NOT connected to Kingstown at all.
I had suggested that you get his birth cert should you wish to persue the occupation of his father to see if it was a near match to Butler !
I would work on Annie Comerford FIRST !
Tara
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Yes,
Rathdown is the registration district that Dun Laoghaire / Kingstown comes under.
You will note that this is the district that Kate Comerford got married from !
Tara
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I am attaching this link as to how to order certs (just in case you don't know) !
http://www.swilson.info/irishcerts.php
Please ensure to only order a RESEARCH COPY as they only cost €4.
Tara
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Thanks Tara, You can see how my mind works from the tangent perspective then :P I will order Annie's certificate ad see what happens from there, thank you so much :)
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this man is buried Glasnevin
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTQV-RZW
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Could be my Matthew's father although North of the river??
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Another total long shot BUT
You know the way there is a Matthew Comerford marrying Anne Cullen in 1876 in Dublin City.
After the children were born, so I'm hoping that it's the same couple BUT for some reason they didn't marry earlier.
So, back to the Butler Occupation
The Matthew that got married in 1876 got married from 23 Kildare Street, Dublin.
Point One ~ Butlers were transient at times and moved to where their employers lived at the time.
So, 23 Kildare Street is quite a 'fancy pants' address ~ defo one that would require a butler !
If you google it you will see a newer building on the spot but they were all important buildings in the area as far back as I know of !
Tara
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One of the Bold Fenian Men
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM34-R3W
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM7V-TNM
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may help rule in or out see Philip Comerford and Mary Hines
http://comerfordfamily.blogspot.ie/2007/12/8-comerford-of-bunclody-and-dublin.html
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Christopher Comerford who boarded in Wellington St
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bfather_givenname%3Achristopher~%20%2Bfather_surname%3Acomerford~&collection_id=1584963
Wife Ann
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Holmpatrick/Quay_Street/1264681/
son John
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Skerries/Strand_Street__Great/1490/
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Thanks everyone, all the information is really helpful. I have requested birth certificate for Annie Comerford to see whether that is any help. I need to get all my stuff into some sort of order because the new Comerford info has thrown me a bit but of course I should have realised to start closer to home from where he was living in 1886!
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I have had a look at Dun Laoghaire Genealogy and searched for church records and there is a Baptism record for Catherine Comerford of 1867. However it does not give any more information than that, and it may be for someone outside of the Kingstown area as it is linked to or it part of RootsIreland. I don't particularly want to subscribe to RootsIreland just for this one check and wonder whether I can check this out at the GRO in Dublin when I am next there in. order to obtain the info I need to apply for a Baptism Certificate
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things to consider
Catherines address in 1886 not necessarily her fathers address.
Due to the amount of children she had i am of the opinion that perhaps she was a minor in 1886 (under 21 ) would have needed parental consent to get married if for reasons unknown she could'nt get this she may have fibbed on her marriage that she was full age.
Matthew in the Will 1894 this may be his wife
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_West/Pembroke_Road__Part_of_/1288529/
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Could it be this
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5NS-2Z6
edit
or this
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY5T-8X9
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Thanks Dathai, I have assumed that Catherine has lied about her age at some point and most likely on the marriage certificate and that she was quite young when she got married. I don't know about the Comerford family in census page as I don't know Matthew's wife's name, that is why I am trying to locate Catherine's Birth/Baptism records. I am assuming that she was Baptised in the Kingstown area. Catherine from Kilkenny cannot be my Catherine as she was born in Dublin, the North Dublin Catherine is a possibility and I have that record but want to eliminate records from Kingstown area first.
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Hi Cathy,
Could this be your Catherine Comerford born in Kingstown? The surname is a bit botched, but father's name is clearly Matthew Comerford and mother Anne Cullen living in Clarence Street.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633812#page/121/mode/1up
Date of birth is 26.03.1867 - which happens to be same date as one of Tara's familysearch links for an Anne Comerford. It may have been an error in transcription, no fault of Tara.
Dathai Cathy's Matthew Comerford is not one of the bold Fenian men - my Matthew Comerford who is married to Elizabeth Archbold is the Fenian.
What both of the Matthew Comerfords have in common is that marriages are recorded after a few children have been born. I would love an explanation of this as its doing my head in.. ???
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Thanks Lucinda, Is this a Birth or Baptismal record? I am sure that Catherine was born and her name was registered as Anne the parents changed her name for whatever reason and Baptised her in another name, that's the only possibility. I have seen the Birth Certificate for Anne but there is no other child so the possibility of a twin is not realistic, the only explanation is that her name was changed. And yes, Matthew and Anne got married several years after the children. I can only find one other child who was born in 1864
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Cathy23
The link i gave you was for (Catherine) in St. Michaels RC in Kingstown so it is a baptismal record, though it does give the birth date 26.03.1867. Baptised on 05.04.1867
sponsors: James Dunne and Mary Brennan?
here is the link for the earlier child MaryAnne:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633812#page/57/mode/1up
same church - birth date 09.02.1864 Baptized: 24.02.1864
sponsors: Robert Lenihan and Mary Stack?
perhaps the sponsors names may mean something to you.
This is based on parents being Matthew Comerford & Annie Cullen in Kingstown.
There is a Mary Anne Comerford birth reg. in 1864 Rathdown available from GRO
V.2 P. 807 District: Rathdown
I would also give the suggestion from Dathai re birth for Catherine born in Dublin North 1867 a shot, as its possible the birth could have taken place there in hospital?
Good Luck :)
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Thanks Lucinda
I have Mary Anne's Birth Certificate. I am certain that Catherine was the Anne born in 1867 and for some reason parents changed her name to Catherine prior to her Baptism as the Birth date for Anne is that same as Catherine's. It is the only possibility I think.
Many thanks for your help.
Cathy