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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: dudjac on Friday 27 February 15 20:03 GMT (UK)
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Hi All.
The 1891 census gives the details of a family living in St Anns, Strand, London (RG/12/88).They were Henry Johns . Head M 33 Shopkeeper. b.channel islands.
Jane Johns Wife M 32 b.London, Bromley
Henry Johns Son 4 b. Westminster London
His mother and a niece were also at the same address (32 Frith Street, Soho).
My problem is that I have searched high and low for this family on the 1901 census but find no trace. There is a Henry aged 14 on the 1901 census as being born in Soho and whose parents are George and Janet Johns but I have found that this is not the Henry I require. There is also a Henry Johns aged 50 living in Aldershot, in 1901, married to Ellen (but I know this is untrue) stating he is from Soho London. This may be him but if so where is Jane and little Henry. I have checked passenger lists, death records and juggled the names in al sorts of ways but to no avail.
Is it staring at me but I cannot see it??
Many thanks for any help
Dud.
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Can we look at it from a different angle? Are you descended from Henry or a later child? If it's from a later child their details may help.
I am assuming you have checked the 1901 for the CI
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It doesn't help you find them in 1901, but are you sure Agnes is his mother?
In 1861 Agnes is a 50 year-old widow (she had married George Huddy Johns in 1836 as Agnes Andrew) and she has a children of 23, 21, 16, 13 and 3 (Henry). it's possible, of course, but he may also be the son of the 21 year-old Emma who had been born when the family were in St Enodoc.
Richard
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Hi it may help if you find out who is the family of this potential marriage in September qtr 1897 West Ham 4a 296:-
John Villiers to Jane Johns?
Keyboard86
PS RG13/1579/21/33
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Freebmd has this possible death
Deaths June qtr 1895
Henry Johns 38 Marylebone 1a 315
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Hi it may help if you find out who is the family of this potential marriage in September qtr 1897 West Ham 4a 296:-
John Villiers to Jane Johns?
Possible
1901 RG13/1579 West Ham
John Villiers, 56, farrier
Jane Villiers, 43, wife, b Bromley, Middx
John V, 18, son, b Silvertown, West Ham
Arthur V, 15, son, b Silvertown, West Ham
Henry V, 13, b Soho, Westminster
Richard
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Hi Dud, Amelia Johns b c 1911 a relative?
Keyboard86
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In 1911 Henry Villiers is still with John and Jane Villers (sic) but is now Harry Johns, 23, stepson, b Shaftesbury Avenueso it's definitely the right family.
Richard
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Hi Dud, Amelia Johns b c 1911 a relative?
Keyboard86
Just wondering if indeed correct family going on another post/thread by Dud?
Keyboard86
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??? Have you seen just how many threads are on this Henry b c 1851 Soho?
Goodnight
Keyboard86
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Thanks for all your replies. Give me a while to go through them. Very many thanks.Dud'
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Hi.
As Keyboard d86 asks, yes Amelia was my mother She died in 2013 aged almost 103 years.
She never knew her father. (Henry Johns) I have spent the last two years trying to find him but cannot.
On the 1911 census Henry Johns is living in Aldershot with Ellen Johns who he states is his wife.
Henry says he comes from Soho London, is a bootmaker and is 50 years old. Henry did not marry Ellen but had two children, Amelia 1911 and Doris 1913 but Doris died in 1914. In 1918 Ellen and Henry are apart and Ellen goes back to her former name Weedon and marries a George Sutherland.
No idea what happens to Henry.
In 1901 henry was in Aldershot and working as a bootmaker for Ellens stepfather. He states in the 1901 census that he is single, 50 years old (again) and from Soho, London. This is how Ellen met him whilst still being married to her former husband Charles Weedon.
The details above are all I have ever been able to find out about Henry.
One possible lead was that he was married to Jane in 1891 and lived in Frith Street, Soho. They had a son Henry (jr) Henry (Snr) on the 1891 census states he came from the Channel Islands (Alderney). but I thought it was a possability that he may have left Jane and gone to Aldershot stating there that he was born in Soho This theory is now very thin.
I have also considered that as Henry was in Aldershot he may have had a military background but again this proved fruitless.
As you can work out Henry was my grandfather. It would have been nice to have found his roots.
Yes I have asked about this man before.
Dud.
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Hi again Dud, rather than everybody reading through all the possible Henry Johns b c 1851 that you have discounted, would it be possible for you to list them, so that a new approach to hopefully find him can be attempted?
Keyboard86
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Hi.
If Henry was born in Soho London then this as you know comes under Strand or Westminster area
1 Henry Louis Johns b.1853 Westminster
2 Henry Charles Johns b.1856 Strand.
3 Henry Morton Johns b.1857 Westminster.
My Henry was so precise in 1911 census when he states St Anns Soho.London. Yet these Johns all seem to lead nowhere.
Dud.
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Hi again Dud, thank you for that, when/where did Henry die, what age is shown?
Or just disappear?
Keyboard86
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Hi.
If Henry was born in Soho London then this as you know comes under Strand or Westminster area
1 Henry Louis Johns b.1853 Westminster
2 Henry Charles Johns b.1856 Strand.
3 Henry Morton Johns b.1857 Westminster.
My Henry was so precise in 1911 census when he states St Anns Soho.London. Yet these Johns all seem to lead nowhere.
Dud.
I would not put much credence, on where he was born, if he was brought up, has a young child, in that area, that's where he will think he was born, the information on the earlier census is given by his parents, and they will know the correct place of birth
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Hi again Dud, are you certain the birth place on original 1911 is St Anns, and not eg St James?
Plus we now have aged 50 in 1911 and 1901?
Keyboard86
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Hi again Dud, are you certain the birth place on original 1911 is St Anns, and not eg St James?
Plus we now have aged 50 in 1911 and 1901?
Sorry hit quote/post, but does it say St Anns, Soho on original?
Keyboard86
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In both 1901 and 1911 census he sates he was born in Soho London. And in both cases he was 50 years old. (...Peter Pan??). I thought perhaps the 1901 age was rounded up and in 1911 he was trying to impress Ellen
Cannot find a death, although in 1936 a Henry Johns died in Aldershot. The death cert gives no indication as to whom he was as he died in hospital and they issued the death cert. His occupation was given as gardener. So again not certain.
I agree with margp regarding his birth but no census show a Henry living in Soho.
I tried going backwards to 1891 and again nothing.
Thanks for your help
Dud
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Dud, original 1911, sure (a) St Anns (b) Soho?
Keyboard86
PS Henry possibly illegitimate/mother married?
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1901 census gives birth place as Soho London.
1911 gives birth place as St Anne London. Which is I understand Soho.
Dud.
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Hi again, the 1911 is that transcription or original?
I am really clutching at straws as to possibly another pob!?
Keyboard86
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Hi.
1911 Original
Dud.
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OK if you say so, will go with that?
Keyboard86
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Dud
I have been researching Jane S Villers (sometimes written Villiers), Henry's mother. Jane S Villers, or Sophia Jane Villers as she was sometimes known, born in Bromley in 1858. She was one of the 73 victims of the Silvertown explosion on 19 January 1917. Looking back over earlier posts, you already have some facts about this family and have eliminated them? In case it is helpful to others, it might help if I fill in some of the gaps. Jane S Villers was identified at the Coroner's inquest by her son, Harry Johns. The 1911 census shows Jane had been married to John Villers for 13 years with no children. They are living in Knights Road West, Silvertown in 1911. John Villers had at two sons living at home and a stepson, Harry Johns, born in Shaftesbury Avenue, Middlesex. The 1901 census shows the same family unit but with a Henry Villers, whose place of birth is Soho, Middlesex. Dates and mother's details match for this Henry Villers to be Henry Johns whose father was the shop keeper from the Channel Islands.