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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: thombenn on Friday 27 February 15 16:31 GMT (UK)
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Trying to find out what happened to his person, a great uncle through marriage. He seemed just to disappear, cannot find any record of his death.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Previous thread about this guy:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=539191.msg5262519#msg5262519
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Frustratingly he may have gone anywhere or even changed his name. Know how you feel...have a gguncle who did the same thing, born in the 1850's,as a youngster got into a bit of trouble and spent a few months in jail. Then settled down and married but joined the army in early 1880's, got a medal and then totally disappeared off the face of the earth. >:(
With a name like Horsfield you would think your guy would be easy to find......maybe that's what he thought and changed his name when he ran away.... who knows ???
Will have a look around for you but after his war records there doesn't seem to be anything... :-\
Added: do you know his exact date of birth from his birth certificate?
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Just been reading the info provided on your other post and came up with the idea.....did Orsfield and his son Frank both disappear at the same time? ie early 1930's? Do you know where Frank senior ended up?
Added: as Frank Turner seems to be a common name it may be worth finding the exact birth date of Frank Senior(from birth certificate). He is registered in the last quarter of 1900 and baptised in Oct 1900 so probably born beginning of October. If he died when the birth date of the deceased was recorded then his death should be easy to find if he died in the UK.
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Still pondering on this mystery ::)
Do you know the occupation of Frank senior b. 1900 before he disappeared?
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I think Frank senior (son of Horsfield)was a labourer. I do know HIS son Frank Junior ended up Canada.
Horsfield appeared one day at a railway station in Salford and told his son, Frank, that he was leaving his mother, gave him his watch and that was the end of that, apparently never seen again. Bit of a mystery. Perhaps he did change his first name (?). His wife was one Elizabeth Thomas and his father was called Luke. I can trace back but now forwards with him. It is just frustrating that I can find no trace of him after he left the family. When his wife died in 1950 it stated on the burial record that she was a "widow" so whether that was just presumed or she DID know he had died we'll never know, but can find you record of his death (under that name anyway). Perhaps he left the area altogether and even ended up abroad.
Please try and find out for me, I am sure you are more skilled than me !!
Many thanks.
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Looking at all the facts and 'hearsay' it would seem then that Orsfield and Frank Senior both seemed to disappear at the same time.
The lady who replied to your other thread ( Orsfields great granddaughter) says Frank senior disappeared when Frank junior was 18 mnths old, so 1931ish. There is a photo on an Ancestry tree(yours I think Thombenn?) which shows Orsfield, Frank senior and Frank junior who looks to be about 1 year old with Elizabeth and Frank juniors wife. They all look very happy, so what happened I wonder? If Frank senior spoke to his father before he left it must have been 1930/1931 ish when Orsfield went on his travels :)
It would help if we had exact birth dates for both of them Thombenn.
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Horsfield (or Osfield or Orsfield (!) was baptised on 4 August 1872, the BMD for his birth states Registration Quarter June, July & August, so could have been end July or very beginning of August. His father was Luke and his mother Mary.
His son Frank was baptised on 24 October 1900 and the BMD states October.
When his father "jumped ship" so to speak my grandfather was with them at the station and Frank threatened his father that if it wasn't for the fact that he WAS his father he would "kick him up and down the platform", that doesn't sound like someone who would do the same thing with his own wife (at least not then, so I think when he did leave her it was sometime later).
My brother (still living) used to visit the family home of Frank and Rosie and remembered young Frank being a teenager, but he never mentioned the father being there so I assume he had gone by then leaving Rosie to bring Frank up alone with the help of my grandfather and family.
As for Horsfield, I know this to be fact, his wife was always going into businesses, chip shops etc and moving house and he got fed up with it all. But, where did he get to, very intriguing.
I am 99% certain that there was no divorce with Horsfield and his wife, so one divorced in the family at that time and if they had it would have been known.
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Just puzzling- did they have a connection with Salford? I wonder why father and son met there, I know it's probably irrelevant.
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Assuming Frank senior stayed around the Manchester/Oldham area....found 2possible deaths for him:
1. Manchester 1956
2. Barton 1963
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At the time when Horsfield told his son he was leaving the mother (Elizabeth) Frank and my grandfather were working at Monton (Salford) and not sure if Horsfield was working with them (labouring I think). They were waiting for the train to take them home to Shaw or thereabouts. I do know that at some stage Horsfield and Elizabeth did live in the Salford area, she ended up back in Royton/Shaw area. Whether he ever lived in Salford with her I don't know.
Apparently she bought him lots of equipment for roadworks and flagging which he seemed to do, all the stuff was later seen in her shed at her home in Royton.
Is this a mystery that can never be solved??? Of course, everyone is now dead apart from my brother who is 79 but he would have only been around 12 when Elizabeth died. He visited her with my father and remembers my father asking if she had ever "heard from Uncle Horsfield" she replied that he knocked on her door once but she ignored him and he went away. (That's when she showed my dad all the equipment in the shed. Now how true that is I don't know. Perhaps as he got older he wanted to go back?
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As for when Frank died, my dad thought he was living around the Leigh area once. That is in Lancashire near to Wigan.