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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: jmara on Saturday 21 February 15 22:15 GMT (UK)
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Hi-When my ancestors John Daley (often Dailly or Daily) and Susan Boyle married in 1864 he was listed as a widower. I am trying to re-construct his past and wanted to turn to you guys to see if I got it right. John was born of Bernard Daley and Margaret Cook circa 1834 in Portabello, Midlothian.
When married in October, 1864 at Maryhill he was listed as a 30 year old widower.
I've tried to go back and reconstruct who his first wife was and what may have happened by looking at all weddings of John Daillys who married before 1864 but whose wife was not in later censuses. I came up with 3 possible brides: Mary MacCormac (1852 Dundee wedding), Margaret Ferrington (1854 wedding at Dundee) and Mary Stewart (1859 at St. Mary's in Greenock) Since he was catholic and I know his later children were baptised at St. Mary in Duntocher, I thought Stewart was the most likely. Records show that Mary died in September, 1862 at 19 years old as recorded in Dalbeth (?) She and John Daley also had a son, also John, born in September 1862 in Greenock, Renfew. There is no record of the infant John's baptism or death, but he does not appear in later census with his father. My conjecture is that John Dailly married Mary Stewart and she died in childbirth in Sept. 1862 and their son John died before he could be baptised. Not sure why no death record.
You guys are like detectives. Can you tell me: Do you think I have this right? What did I miss?
Are there more reasonable and likely scenarios? Is there anything from her death record (attached) that I can glean? Thanks for any guidance or comments!
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Hi jmara,
You would need to obtain the actual death certificate to confirm.
The attachment is a burial record only.
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Hi jmara
With the info you have included, there is this possible 1851 census entry on Ancestry. As transcribed:
Bardner Daley 51 Coal Lb b. Ireland
Margaret Daley 45 b. Ledinbargh (Edinburgh?), Midlothian
David Daley 19
John Daley 17 coal miner b. Portabella (o?), Midlothian
James Daley 13
Thomas Daley 10
Address: Drumchapel V(C?)olliery, East Kilpatrick, Dumbartonshire
Monica
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Hi
Have you found John in the 1861 census? As he married for the second time in Maryhill you
could try there first. Depending when the first wife died it may list her with her place of birth :-\
Joy
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You don't say what John's occupation was. Was he a coal miner?
Checking the 1861 census, there is a John Daily aged 26 born Portobello, living in Bathgate with his 25 year old wife Ann M Daily, who was born in Edinburgh. There are two people with the name Malcolm in the same household - 19 yr old lodger James and 37 year old Janet as a visitor.
Found a marriage between John Daly & Ann Malcolm 22 Jan 1861 in Bathgate.
An Ann Daly died in Bathgate in 1862
Perhaps check it out?
Nell
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Do you have John's death certificate? Does it not mention his first wife?
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=711157.0
To avoid reposting/ duplicating info......
All info relating to John Daley and his second wife is on above.
They emigrated to the US
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Yes-thank you Anne. I was in the midst of posting that I have all the information I need on John Dailly and his second wife and family. I am trying to get information on what happened with he and his first wife and (possibly) son.
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Hi-John died in Illinois, US between 1885-1890 but I can't find his death certificate. He had re-married so it likely would not have his first wife's name.
Do you have John's death certificate? Does it not mention his first wife?
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When I asked, I had thought he perhaps died in Scotland. Scottish death certificates tend to name earlier spouses.
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Can anyone find the statutory death record that matches with the burial info posted by jmara?
Mary Daley ( or variant) age 19 and died in 1862.
The closest that I can find is an 1863 death in Lanarkshire Age0
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I didn't know that! I wish. I can't find anything from Chicago.
Speaking of that, annep5892 you mentioned I'd need the actual death cert. to confirm. Is this something I can get at Scotlands people or is there an additional document I need to request that is not available online?
When I asked, I had thought he perhaps died in Scotland. Scottish death certificates tend to name earlier spouses.
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jmara,
Scotlands People holds all birth/death/marriage records
You should be looking in the 1st section on the left :
"Statutory Registers" ( records from 1855- current date)
I know Jonn sent you the Daley/Boyle marriage cert.
This is where it came from
The Catholic Registers is only a good source of "additional" information for this time period.
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Thanks...I've checked for statutory death records for both Ann and Mary Daily (and last name variations) for the time period but came up empty. The 1861 Census of John (born in Portabello) and Ann Malcolm seems accurate on his age and place of birth and they have a marriage record so she seems the most likely first wife. Problem is, I can't find that Ann Malcolm Daily died before 1864 (his next marriage) or any death record.
On the other hand, I have a marriage between John Daily and Mary Stewart in 1859 and Mary dying in 1862, but no proof it was with my ancestor John born in Portabello and no census for 1861 with them together.
Any suggestions on how to resolve?
author=annep5892 link=topic=713594.msg5572293#msg5572293 date=1424566604]
jmara,
Scotlands People holds all birth/death/marriage records
You should be looking in the 1st section on the left :
"Statutory Registers" ( records from 1855- current date)
The Catholic Registers is only a good source of "additional" information for this time period.
[/quote]
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I've checked for statutory death records for both Ann and Mary Daily (and last name variations) for the time period but came up empty.
I found an Ann Daly death registered in 1862 on ScotlandsPeople
An Ann Daly died in Bathgate in 1862
I only entered Ann ('begins with' option) and Daley (surname variants option), female, between 1861 and 1864 and got 13 results.
I have now viewed the entry - she was married to John Daly, coal miner, and her age was 21.
With ScotlandsPeople, less is often more. I really recommend checking it out, plus the marriage in the statutory records on ScotlandsPeople. This would confirm (or otherwise) that the John Dal(e)y is the correct one from the parents listed.
Nell
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Apologies to Little Nell,
It was very late last night and I completely missed your post relating to the marriage of John Daily and Ann Malcolm.
I was too focused on the 1862 burial record that was posted.
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Little Nell-Thank You! I don't know how I missed that on my query.
I used the broad metaphone option.
I will go back in and get the information from Scotlandpeople.
Really appreciate it--Thank You to everyone!
I only entered Ann ('begins with' option) and Daley (surname variants option), female, between 1861 and 1864 and got 13 results.
I have now viewed the entry - she was married to John Daly, coal miner, and her age was 21.
With ScotlandsPeople, less is often more. I really recommend checking it out, plus the marriage in the statutory records on ScotlandsPeople. This would confirm (or otherwise) that the John Dal(e)y is the correct one from the parents listed.
Nell
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there is this possible 1851 census entry on Ancestry.
Another specimen of rubbish transcription from Ancestry.
FreeCEN has Margaret and David born Midlothian, Edinburgh; John born Midlothian, Portubella, which they have interpreted as Portobello; James born Stirlingshire, Slamannan and Thomas born possibly West Thorn, Lanarkshire with a note that the transcribers were unsure of the parish of birth. (West Thorn rings a bell - have we had this same query before?)
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Hi Forfarian.
There was a query recently regarding decphiring a place of birth on a Census and it was West Thorn (I remember because I had never heard of it) - just can't remember what the name was ???
Racking my brains .....was it Bernard Daley????
Looby
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There was a query recently regarding decphiring a place of birth on a Census and it was West Thorn
It was this one:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=710701.0
Nell
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There was a query recently regarding decphiring a place of birth on a Census and it was West Thorn (I remember because I had never heard of it) - just can't remember what the name was ???
Racking my brains .....was it Bernard Daley????
Yes. Got it. Same family. Here it is, for the avoidance of further duplication of effort
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=710701.0
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Yes-when I was trying to locate info. on John and you all helped me find a great deal, including the 1851 census. My query here was specifically about trying to determine info. about who the first wife was, so I'm sorry if I've troubled anyone and made them take up time looking for info. on John and Susan Dailly, which I already have. And yes, Forfarian- it WAS Bernard Daley but written likely phonetically as Barnard. That's amazing you remembered that--it was awhile ago.
quote author=Forfarian link=topic=713594.msg5573169#msg5573169 date=1424637470]
there is this possible 1851 census entry on Ancestry.
Another specimen of rubbish transcription from Ancestry.
FreeCEN has Margaret and David born Midlothian, Edinburgh; John born Midlothian, Portubella, which they have interpreted as Portobello; James born Stirlingshire, Slamannan and Thomas born possibly West Thorn, Lanarkshire with a note that the transcribers were unsure of the parish of birth. (West Thorn rings a bell - have we had this same query before?)
[/quote]
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I'm sorry if I've troubled anyone
It's not that anyone was especially 'troubled' but it is generally a good idea, if you start a new thread on a related topic, just to include a link to the previous thread so that everyone knows what has already been discussed.
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LittleNell-Thanks Again for finding this.
I have the statutory death record attached below but was hoping for a little guidance on what information I can glean from this and if I am reading the form correctly. It seems to say she died of peridonitis with "15 days" next to it. Does this mean she had it for 15 days before passing? For the time period-1862-was peridonitis seen concurrent with another condition (e.g. childbirth?)
Any insights would be appreciated.
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Hi jmara
Ann's cause of death was 'peritonitis' and basically is an infection in the abdomen specifically the
peritoneum. It is quite common in cases where for example someone's appendix bursts. It can be
fatal if not treated promptly with antibiotics. 15 days is quite easily the length of time it took her to
die :(
Whether it was seen with childbirth I don't know...septicaemia was more common with
childbirth I think :)
HTH
Joy
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So sad. I found this is an article on British maternal Mortality in the 19th century:
PUERPERAL PYREXIA
Deaths from puerperal pyrexiai are rarely seen these days, but it was a major killer in previous centuries. It usually followed an ascending infection of the decidua and particularly to the placental bed. It started 3-10 days after birth and ended in one of three outcomes:
1-a pelvic abscess, a localised infection of the pelvis walled off by natural resistance;
2-a septic thrombophlebitis leading to septicaemia when bacteria could spread to the pelvic veins. This was usually fatal;
3-peritonitis, which was usually a most painful death, when bacteria had travelled up the fallopian tube.
On that very sad note, please consider this post addressed and closed.
Hi jmara