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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: HarrysGirl2 on Saturday 21 February 15 18:42 GMT (UK)
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I'm tracing the GOSS family who emigrated to Canada from Liverpool. Circa 1950s-1960s.
John GOSS worked at Lucas, Edge Lane Liverpool. I do not know where in Canada they settle. However, shortly after they arrived in Canada, John GOSS & his wife were killed in a car crash. His young children stayed in Canada & were raised by relatives.
I know that this is a long-shot, but I would be grateful for any information about this family.
Thanks you
HG2.
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Hi,
When was John Goss born ? What was the name of his wife ? Any further information on the other relatives ?
Sandra
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Hi,
When was John Goss born ? What was the name of his wife ? Any further information on the other relatives ?
Sandra
Hi Sandra
I don't know a lot about him I'm afraid. He was born in Liverpool at a guess, around 1920, give or take 5 years. He was an engineer & worked at the Lucas factory in Liverpool for many years. I don't know his wife's name as yet, but his wife had a sister who had emigrated to Canada earlier. His wife's sister brought their children up after John & his wife were killed outright when a drunk driver, driving on the wrong side of the road crashed into them. The children, at least two sons, were in the back seat & survived the crash.
When I learn more I will add to this. I know it's basic & not helped by not knowing where in Canada they settled!
I do have photographs of John & his wife, that may help to identify the family later.
HG2
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Hi,
Not much to go on, but I might have found them...
Globe and Mail newspaper has an article April 16, 1960. Headline is "Former Toronto Pair Killed in U.S. Crash." John W Goss, 40 and his wife Agnes, 35 and son A*, 10 were in a car accident on the Garden State Parkway in New Jersey. It was a head on crash. The parents were killed and A* was in critical condition at the hospital in Hillsdale New Jersey. The Gosses were hit by a car travelling the wrong way in their lane. The driver of the other car was also killed. The family, except son J* Jr, had moved from Long Branch (part of Toronto) to Linden, New Jersey, 6 months ago. Mr Goss was a machinist at the Carpenter Steel company of Kearny N.J.. J* Jr. had stayed behind in Toronto to finish his studies at New Toronto High School. The Goss family came from England originally.
This might be them??
RK
Oops - I modified this post to remove the sons' names - they might still be living.
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ALso a short piece in the Toronto Star on the same day. It seems like the parents and A* were driving north to spend the Easter holiday with their son J* when they were killed. :'(
RK
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Free BMD has a marriage of John W Goss to Agnes E McDowall in Liverpool N, DecQ of 1941
RK
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And a Male Goss birth in 1943 Liverpool
Keyboard86
PS amended post due to the fact the person concerned could still be alive.
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Oooh - good find.
Also, Agnes E McDowall born in West Derby Lancs JunQ 1918 - mother's maiden name is Thrussell. Doesn't quite match with Agnes's age as given in the articles, but could be her.
RK
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Findagrave has this
John Goss - interred April 20, 1960 in Rosedale and Rosehill Cemetery, Linden NJ.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=101798586
Not seeing Agnes on the findagrave site, but on the cemetery site, it lists both Agnes and John Goss, interred on April 20, 1960. Location - Rosedale, GOSPEL-335C-1 /SD
http://www.rosedale-rosehill.com/search_names.cfm
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RunKitty & Keyboard86. . . . I can't thank you both enough!
I didn't think I had enough information to find them & I had no idea that they had moved from Canada to the US & were killed in NJ.
It looks very likely that John's wife was Agnes McDowall, which means her sister's maiden name was the same.
I'll look for a marriage for her sister. Although, it's quite possible that her sister will have died by now.
Her two sons may be easier to find if they stayed in Toronto. It depends if they kept the name Goss or were officially adopted by their aunt & uncle & used their surname. So I need to find their surname.
I am so grateful for this help, thank you ! I am so excited!
HG2 XX
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Looks like the second Goss son - 1948 JunQ, Liverpool N. Mother "McDowell". There is a middle initial "B" for this son. (Free BMD)
So, now it would be great if we could to find Agnes McDowell/McDowall Goss's married sister who raised the boys after their parents died.
RK
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Lancashire OPC has record of banns for John William Goss and Agnes Edith McDowall. In Christ Church, Kensington, Lancashire, England. John is a bachelor of this parish. Agnes is a spinster of St. Anne's, Stanley
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
RK
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I can't believe we found what we have found so far, Thank you so much.
The marriage of John W Goss to Agnes E McDowall has to be the correct marriage in 1941.
There is one other Liverpool 1944 marriage of a John H Goss to - spouse's surname is Halewood, but I can't find a Liverpool birth for Halewood. So I doubt that would be the correct marriage, John's second initial doesn't fit.
I've looked for births of siblings & can find only 2 brothers, can't see any sisters! So maybe it was Agnes's 'brother' & his wife who brought up their sons. All a bit vague, because one of the articles says their 17-year old son was staying with 'friends' of the family on Eighth Street, Long Branch in Toronto, while finishing his education. Maybe 'friends' were actually 'family' on Eighth St ?
If so, we are be looking for the name McDowall :)
The brothers I've found are;
J**** McD***** born 1920 Liverpool
W****** McD***** born 1924 Liverpool
They could still be living so can't put full names on here, but J & W are very common first names.
HG2
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Have been following the thread in the background but did notice the other day that there was also a death in March 1924 for what could be the same W McD.
There was also a G.A McDowall born September 1913 to maiden name Thrussell. 8b 1251 - West Derby.
Sandra
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Hi again
If we think Agnes's mother's maiden name is Thrussell -
1913 - George A McDowall, W. Derby
1915 - Florence, W. Derby (mmn name on Free BMD transcribed as Thrusse[il]l
RK
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There was a death West Derby - March 1917 - Florence McDowall - aged 1 year - 8b 908
Sandra
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There is a death of a George A McDowall - Prestwich - 8d 435 - June 1916 - aged 2 years.
Sandra
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Where does the information come from that the boys were brought up by relatives ?
Sandra
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Same family
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1102769
Sandra
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James McDowall born 21 Sep 1920 in West Derby, Lancashire passed away Sep 1979 in Liverpool, Merseyside.
Married to Ada Knowles born 5 Oct 1928 in West Derby, Lancashire passed away Dec 1976 in Liverpool, Merseyside. Marriage Q1 1951 - Liverpool Lancashire - 10d 424
Couple had 3 children Son McDowall - Dec 1955 - Liverpool N - 10d 585
Daughter McDowall - Dec 1960 - Liverpool N - 10d 437 (suspect this is P mentioned in the link above)
3 rd son Anthony McDowall - Dec 1962 - Liverpool N - 10d 477 passed away Dec 1962 - 10d 392
Sandra
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Thanks for this info. Although, my main aim is to find John Goss's sons A & J. Goss, this information might lead me to siblings of John Goss & his wife family & they might be in touch with the boys.
I know Canada has strict privacy regulations on records, so unless they pop up in the media it's going to be hard to trace them unless they have family here that might know their whereabouts.
Thanks for this, I'll search for siblings of John & his wife, they might know details about the boys, now men!
Sandra, just seen your other post: The story about the boys being brought up by relatives was something that I remember being told by my uncle, who was their father's best friend. The boys stayed on in Canada & were brought up by John's wife's sister, is how I remember the story being told.
I do believe this because I remember in the late 70s early 80s one of the sons, don't know which one, came to Liverpool & went to the Lucas factory here in Liverpool to find his father's best friend - my uncle. My uncle & John Goss Snr, were very close & both worked as engineers at Lucas for many years together.
HG2
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Sandra. Yes, this is the family! :)
I dont have an account with GU. Can anyone send a message to this family for me ?
HG2
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Can only see 1 marriage of a McDowall to a Thrussell - Andrew McDowall - Agnes Thrussell - June 1903 - Greenwich - 1d 1804
If this was the correct marriage there could be other children born before the mothers maiden name was recorded - 1903 - 1910
Can't give the info but they do have 3 children by the time the 1911 UK census was taken.
Andrew McDowell aged 24 years, bachelor, labourer, father Andrew McDowall, Foreman Platelayer. Married Agnes Thrussell aged 19 years, spinster. Father Amos Thrussell - Travelling Foreman.
Christ Church Greenwich - 2 May 1903 - Witnesses Thomas Henry Thrussell and Florence Pike.
Sandra
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There are a couple of marriages for a Margaret McDowall (probable sister of Agnes) Cant see one to a Platt ???
Sept 1920 - Wirral - 8a 1329 Margaret McDowall to Joseph Rathbone.
June 1929 - West Derby - 8b 839 Margaret A McDowall to Charles Roberts.
Sandra
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Those messages on GU were 2008. >:(
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Charles Roberts in West Derby looks more promising
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I need to go out, but when I get home tonight I'll look for any siblings of John Goss Snr.
I wish I didn't have this appointment, hate leaving my laptop when we're onto something!
Be back later
HG2 x
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Probate for Andrew McDowall - 11 Ennismore Road, Stanley. Liverpool 13. Died 13 August 1951 at the Broad Green Hospital Liverpool 14. Probate Liverpool 1 st October to Arthur McDowall - Tool Setter - Effects £1,058 13 s 7d.
10d 318 Andrew McDowall - Liverpool N - Redg. Sept 1951
Agnes McDowall died aged 58 years - June 1941 - Liverpool N - 8b 1146
Amos McDowall (1905) - Margaret McDowall (1907) and Arthur McDowall (1910)were all born in Edinburgh.
Sandra
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There was a birth of Andrew Barclay S McDowall - January 1879 - West Derby. Lancashire. 8b 370
Sandra
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A little background on Agnes Thurssell - born 12 January 1883 - baptised 17 January 1883 Parish West Scammonden, St Bartholomew - Father Amos Thurssell - Mother Alice - Abode Barkisland.
Sandra
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Agnes and brother Thomas Henry Thurssell who was a witness at her wedding appear with parents on the 1901 Scotland Census. Transcribed Thrusseel
1901 Census 9 Sloan Street Leith Scotland.
Amos Thrusseel 48 Labourer In iron Works
Alice Thrusseel 39
Joseph Thrusseel 22 Labourer In Iron Works
William Thrusseel 20 Labourer In iron Works
Thomas H Thrusseel 19 Labourer In Iron Works
Agnes Thrusseel 17 Dress Maker.
Florence Thrusseel 9 Albert Thrusseel 6
Lety Thrusseel 4 David Thrusseel 2
Amos Thrusseel 2 Months
Ewg Jork 19 Niece.
Sandra
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I've found two younger sisters for John Goss Snr. So here's all the siblings together.
John W Goss mmn Mallon. B: March Qtr 1920 Liverpool
C. G. mmn Mallon. B: Dec 1921 Liverpool
M. A. G. mmn Mallon. B: Dec 1922 Liverpool
C. G. married J. D. Sept Qtr of 1943. Liverpool
M. A. G. married B. H. G. Sept Qtr 1943. Liverpool
Double wedding, maybe?
EDIT: Names removed in case still living.
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Found other sisters in my searches yesterday - S born 1923 married 1948 - E born 1926 married 1949 - also a brother J P born 1929 married 1954 cannot name in case still living.
Hate suggesting the purchase of a marriage cert but the obvious one would be Margaret to Charles Roberts to confirm if that keeps us on track.
Reply 23 - June 1929 - West Derby - 8b 839 Margaret A McDowall to Charles Roberts.
Thanks
Sandra
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Would you PM those names to me please Sandra
HG2
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Found other sisters in my searches yesterday - S born 1923 married 1948 - E born 1926 married 1949 - also a brother J P born 1929 married 1954 cannot name in case still living.
Hate suggesting the purchase of a marriage cert but the obvious one would be Margaret to Charles Roberts to confirm if that keeps us on track/
Thanks
Sandra
PS: Yes, I'll order their MC. I have an online account. Thanks Sandra
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Names sent.
Regards
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra, I can't believe I missed these!
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Re-reading - Reply 18 gave a link to a message board post said Peggy McDowall married a Platt. This could be the Margaret McDowall born 1907 (mentioned in reply 27) to Andrew and Agnes McDowall. Can't see a UK marriage for a McDowall to a Platt. If Margaret had married then divorced or her husband had died she could have remarried under a different name ???
Still looking.
Sandra
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Would be handy to know the exact birth date of Margaret McDowall born 1907 Edinburgh. Have found a passenger list for a Margaret M Platt - born 13-11-1906 and aged 52 years Montreal to Greenock Scotland arriving 27 July 1959 on the Empress of England - Going to Adelphi Hotel Liverpool for 17 days. Travelling alone. Housewife.
Could be coincidence ???
Sandra
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Sandra. Yes, this is the family! :)
I dont have an account with GU. Can anyone send a message to this family for me ?
HG2
Sorry I am not a member of Genes Reunited but I "know a very helpful lady who is" and she might be able to contact the poster for us. DB will advise us here if she can help. ;)
Sandra
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There is also very helpful lady (Rosie) in Scotland who might be able to confirm the birth date of Margaret McDowall for us so that we can count or discount that passenger list entry for 1959 ???
What a team ;D
Hope we can make some more progress for you.
Sandra
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Hi
No luck on Genes Reunited, I am a non paying member, so can't pass on a message. :P
No so useful after all. ::)
Cheers,
DB
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Not to worry - DB. Have posted request on The Lighter Side in the hope someone can help. If you don't ask...................... :P
Cheers
Sandra
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Just to update - a kind RootsChatter has sent a message on your behalf to the poster on Genes Reunited - although the post was 2008, we hope they will respond.
Sandra ;)
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Hi Sandra birth date for Margaret Alice McDowall 20/6/1906 Edinburgh father Andrew McDowall mother Agnes Thrussell marriage date for this couple 1903 Greenwich birth registered by the mother Agnes ..copy of the birth certificate if required
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Looks like the marriage for Margaret A McDowall 1929 West Derby to Charles Roberts
Death Margaret Alice Roberts birth date 20/6/1906 died in Liverpool November 1992 :)
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Rosie you are a treasure - thanks for looking that up - poster will really appreciate your help with this one ;D That's the marriage we are waiting for the certificate for - but the poster on Genes Reunited mentioned Peggy (McDowall) married a Platt ???
Doesn't look as if the connection in Canada is sister Margaret. Could have been a Goss connection I suppose - John Goss had 4 sisters and a brother.
Sandra
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I'm so grateful for this help. I'm working over this weekend, but able to snatch a quick reply. I have replied to your pm Sandra. Rosie, thank you.
I have sent messages to two people on Facebook. One man originally from Liverpool, now living in Ontario. Plus a young student living in Liverpool. Both named Goss, so fingers crossed they might be a descendant of one of John Goss's siblings & might have address details for their two sons in Canada.
Thanks a million to you all
HG2
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I realize that this is an old thread but I'll reply anyway. John W Goss was my Mum's cousin (although I think there wan't much contact). John W was definitely the son of John James Doran Goss & Margaret Mallon.
There is a New York State arrival for John's youngest brother - J P. (born 1929 issued April 1960, obviously, and sadly, flying out for the funeral & staying at Main St. Linden, New Jersey, where the burial took place.
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Hi LoughshinnyMc
Welcome to RootsChat
Newspaper report of the accident - The Record Hackensack, New Jersey
15 Apr 1960, Fri Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47846097/john-w-goss-agnes-goss-15-april-1960/
Sandra
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Report on the son - The Herald-News Passaic, New Jersey
18 Apr 1960, Mon Page 30
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47846166/alan-goss-son-18-april-1960/
Sandra
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I realize that this is an old thread but I'll reply anyway. John W Goss was my Mum's cousin (although I think there wan't much contact). John W was definitely the son of John James Doran Goss & Margaret Mallon.
There is a New York State arrival for John's youngest brother - J P. (born 1929 issued April 1960, obviously, and sadly, flying out for the funeral & staying at Main St. Linden, New Jersey, where the burial took place.
Hi, thank you so very much for this information & the link to the accident report in the newspaper.
It is still very sad reading after all these years.
I am the niece of John Welsby (deceased), who was John Goss's best friend. They worked at the Lucas factory together in Liverpool for many years before the Goss family went to Canada & then onto America.
I have photos, info & memories to share.
I remember one of John Goss' sons (I assume it would be his eldest, J.) came to England in the late 1970s. He made a special journey up to the Lucas factory to find my uncle. What a surprise my uncle got - he was overwhelmed!
I would love to contact either of the Goss sons, (J & A). I believe they stayed on in Canada with relatives. Do you have any contact details for them that you would share? Or perhaps if you could send them my details & ask them to contact me?
I do have two other newspaper cuttings, but I did not have this one that you have given to me. Thank you so much.
Any further information you can tell me will be very much appreciated.
Thank you again,
Monica, Lancashire.
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There were a number of accident reports but many were very similar, hard to know which ones you might have had.
Any luck tracing the 2 sons - who was the other relative in Canada ?
Sandra
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There were a number of accident reports but many were very similar, hard to know which ones you might have had.
Any luck tracing the 2 sons - who was the other relative in Canada ?
Sandra
Hi Sandra
I have three newspaper reports so far but I did not have the report that you sent dated 18th April 1960, so thank you for that. The reports have given me some information as to where the family were living in New Jersey in 1960 & where their eldest son was living with friends in Toronto until he finished high school. But I've no proof of where the two sons are living now, or if they are still alive.
I could do some mail-shots to people with the same names in the area, but I don't want to do that unless I have to. I've found nothing on FB. I was hoping to find a local Toronto website where I could leave a message.
Any suggestions ?
Thank you so much for your interest & the reports.
Monica
PS: I don't know the name of the family the eldest son was staying with. I remember they were related in some way, although one report mentioned the eldest son was staying with friends. So not sure on that part.
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Just in case you haven't got this one.
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 21 Apr 1960, Thu Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47920787/taverns-in-probe-in-3-death-crash-21/
Sandra
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and this one
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 16 May 1960, Mon Page 22
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47920939/goss-boy-is-at-hillsdale-home-16-may/
Sandra
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Just in case you haven't got this one.
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 21 Apr 1960, Thu Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47920787/taverns-in-probe-in-3-death-crash-21/
Sandra
Ah thank you, Sandra. This gives me another name & address in New Jersey
Thank you so much
Monica
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Any idea who the aunt was in the other article ?
The Morning Call Paterson, New Jersey 19 Apr 1960, Tue Page 19
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47921690/boy-survivor-of-fatal-crash-reported/
Sandra
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I can't figure out who the aunt is on this one. John W had 4 sisters, Catherine, Margaret & Susan, all now passed away, and S - who I am in contact with but knows nothing of the boys (20 year age difference between her and John W). I can't find a sister on Agnes' side. I thought perhaps it is the wife of John's brother, James P, (also now deceased) who definitely flew out for the funeral, but I don't know who she is.
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and this one
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 16 May 1960, Mon Page 22
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47920939/goss-boy-is-at-hillsdale-home-16-may/
Sandra
Exploring the couple in the newspaper article............
The couple in this article - Mr and Mrs Cecil E Murrell were married in Birkenhead - marriage registered September 1927 (23 July 1927 according to USA Petition for naturalization) - Cecil E R Murrell and Constance M Stelfox -
Constance Stelfox born Pontypool 19 March 1903 - Cecil Edward was naturalized in New York 1 October 1936 -
The couple arrived in New York on the Laconia - 11 November 1929
Sandra
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obituary for Mrs Constance Murrell - no obvious link to the Goss family so far.
Tampa Bay Times St. Petersburg, Florida
7 Mar 1978, Tue Page 45
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48115672/mrs-constance-murrell/
Florida Death Index - Cecil Edward Murrell - 19 March 1903 - 4 February 1970 Pinellas Florida. Aged 66 years.
Sandra
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obituary for Mrs Constance Murrell - no obvious link to the Goss family so far.
Tampa Bay Times St. Petersburg, Florida
7 Mar 1978, Tue Page 45
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48115672/mrs-constance-murrell/
Florida Death Index - Cecil Edward Murrell - 19 March 1903 - 4 February 1970 Pinellas Florida. Aged 66 years.
Sandra
Thank you agin, Sandra.
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obituary for Mrs Constance Murrell - no obvious link to the Goss family so far.
Tampa Bay Times St. Petersburg, Florida
7 Mar 1978, Tue Page 45
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48115672/mrs-constance-murrell/
Florida Death Index - Cecil Edward Murrell - 19 March 1903 - 4 February 1970 Pinellas Florida. Aged 66 years.
Sandra
It appears the Murrell family were friends of the Goss family & maybe referred to them as family, perhaps. Thank you, Sandra.
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This article shows the Goss family were living with Kenneth Murray at Linden Ave.
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 16 Apr 1960, Sat Page 1
part 1 - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48118585/crash-victim-still-critical-16-april/
part 2 - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48118526/16-april-1960-part-2/
Sandra
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This article shows the Goss family were living with Kenneth Murray at Linden Ave.
The Record Hackensack, New Jersey 16 Apr 1960, Sat Page 1
part 1 - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48118585/crash-victim-still-critical-16-april/
part 2 - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48118526/16-april-1960-part-2/
Sandra
Thank you again, Sandra. You have been very helpful & I appreciate this very much.
I have found some possible living descendants with the same initials as John & Agnes GOSS' two sons in Toronto. I really didn't want to send a letter, but I eventually found the right words - so fingers crossed I might get a response.
Thank you
Monica