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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: mikehardy on Monday 16 February 15 14:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi Last year with help from 'the Yokel' managed to find the children but the births and marriage remained allusive.
I have now found on freereg a probable birth for William - 3 July 1720 Hockwold St Peter. I am not sure how far Hockwold is from Caston but may be doable in those days - what do you think?
The only problem is the first child baptised (1736) William Jr puts William 16 years old!
The only marriage I can find is 16 Feb 1642 Marham Holy trinity. Again the date does not fit in with some of the children's births 1736 - 1749:
William 1736 Caston
Mary 1738 Caston
Michael 1740 Caston
Isaac 1743 Caston
John 1746 Caston
Elizabeth 1749 Caston
Brick Wall again?
Mike.
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Hi there
According to genuki, Caston is 15 miles WSW from Hockwold and 18 miles WNW from Marham, so quite a distance.
From familysearch ATs there might be another baptism in Caston for Michael Hardy son of William & Mary (can't quite make out if the maiden name is shown), 20 July 1735 so presumably he died sometime before 1740.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-12987-18528-18?cc=1824688&wc=M625-GTT:160239801,160450101,160258002,160239804
Shirl
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Thanks Shirl, Michael b1735, d11 March 1736 must have missed the image but a great clue as Mary's maiden name is given as Hish. No on second reading Hish his-W (wife).
Mike.
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Thanks Shirl, Michael b1735, d11 March 1736 must have missed the image but a great clue as Mary's maiden name is given as Hish. No on second reading Hish his-W (wife).
Mike.
I think you are right about his W, pity! just a thought whilst searching for William's baptism and marriage, sometimes children were baptised some time after birth ( 20 years after in one of my ancestors)
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Thanks Shirl,
Somewhere there is a map where you enter a parish in Norfolk and it gives a list of contiguous parishes. Used it last year but cannot find now?
Mike.
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Hi there
It's on genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?NFK,TL950970,5,Caston
Shirl
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Thanks Shirl
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Looked at the parishes around Caston:
Thompson - nothing
Griston - nothing
Carbrook - nothing
Rockland St Peter - nothing
Stow Bedon - nothing
The search for William baptism in the range 1710 - 1720 (first baptised 1735) marriage c1734?
Not sure how far these parishes are from Caston? To widen the search how far to go?
The above England Norfolk Parish Records 1510 - 1997 FS
How far would people travel in those days to meet a partner?
Mike.
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Hi again
Always frustrating when that elusive baptism doesn't want to be found. A few miles radius from Caston would definitely be reasonable maybe even further depending on occupations. Some of my Suffolk ancestors moved quite a distance into Norfolk presumably where there was more work. In the parishes you have checked out so far, were there any Hardy baptisms? If so, it's just possible that William's may not have been recorded, not unusual in those days. I try and check the parish records, BTs and ATs just in case there is anything different. If there are Hardy parents baptising children, do the parents names seem to follow through in William's children? Difficult trying name association with really common names like John, but Michael might be more of a clue.
It's a bit of a jigsaw and often some pieces stay missing - annoying!
Shirl
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Though the PR's don't give an age for William when he died in 1786, William and Mary Hardy do have a monumental inscription at Caston -
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01erl/
Giving William an approximate birth date of 1707, and Mary 1712.
Unfortunately, the online Archdeacons Transcripts have big gaps, though the Norfolk Transcription Archive did transcribe some of the original registers, including the time when your William may have been baptised - but there don’t appear to be any Hardy baptisms in the early 1700's.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01erm/
Yorkslass
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Hi Shirl - No hardy's so far, They are all in Caston accept The William baptism in question. One problem with the Caston records there is a gap 1717-1720. If he was married c1735 and was of full age (21) then he would have been baptised C1714.
Will go and have a look at the parishes further out.
Mike.
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Thank you yorkslass, Never thought at looking at grave stones, certainly a clue as to baptism and will narrow down the search. I have the results from Norfolk Record Office for a search they did 1700-1720 and could not find anything.
Will re visit the parishes searched this morning starting 1706.
Mike.
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Do let us know how you get on. Good luck searching.
Shirl
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Just re-visited this morning's parishes 1706-1710 Nothing, so will widen the search.
Mike.
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Family search have a William Hardy baptised 25 January 1708, father John, mother Thomasine, in Elsing.
A fair way from Caston but in my experience of OH's Norfolk ancestors, they travelled about the county a surprising amount - large families in small villages with not enough jobs so the gamekeepers/blacksmiths/ag labs/domestic servants had to travel to find work. I made the mistake of only looking at neighbouring parishes at first!
Good luck
Pat
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Thanks Pat - yes, seen that one but discarded due to distance from Caston maybe they were more mobile than I had thought. How far is Elsing from Caston
Mike.
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And from freereg there is a baptism Great Ellingham St James (4m from Caston) 20 Nov 1703, William parents William and Ann, it's a couple of years out based on the gravestone, but not that far
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4274440&v=MTQyNDE5NDYwMTo5NjM0MGNiOTFkMzE1M2M5NGI1NjQ3ZmFkNWMzNTQxZmY4OTQ1MzUw
Shirl
PS The baptism showing John & Thomasine as parents is also on freereg, father's occupation clerk.
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Thanks Shirl, Now which one do I choose!! I cannot find a death record for Mary other than the inscription on the grave stone. looked on FS but there is nothing for 1782 on the Caston records.
Mike.
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Siblings for William in Great Ellingham Ann, Mary and John.
Siblings in Elsing Alice (Hardi), Anne, Thomas, James, Robert, John, Matthew, Elizabeth, Thomasine. So no real clues there.
I would usually look at both families and follow some of the children, did they all stay in the parish or did they move around. Are any of your Hardy family clerks? Also William & Ann and John & Thomasine, who were their parents, might be a clue in the names somewhere.
Shirl
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Today's search 18-02-15 the parishes:
Tottington, Merton, Watton
Ovington, Skipdham. Letton
Cranworth, Wood Rising - or is it Woodrising?
Scoulton, Little Ellingham, Rockland (all Saints)
Shropham, Breccles, East Wreatham
All but Letton and Breccles are covered by freereg - just checked!! so using this tool is going to speed-up my search???
William Hardy baptism range 1705-1708 and a marriage for William Hardy and Mary range 1727-1734.
Comments please
Mike.
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Nothing found, but what I have noticed - if I put Mary in the 'Marriage' search engine on FS and Ancestry I get many more returns in the range 1730 +-5 but nothing for William as a spouse for Norfolk/Suffolk.
I have noticed the Archdeacon's transcripts have many gaps in the year range 1727 - 1735.
Any ideas please.
Mike.
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Hi again
William is definitely being elusive! One thing you could try is extend the range slightly, certainly children may not have been baptised for years after birth. Also you could do the same with marriage, one of my ancestors in the 1700s had 4 children before he married so that's always a possibility. Are there any Hardy baptisms in the parishes you have been looking at that just show a male child rather than a name, what about baptisms of a William to a single woman?
The nearest match so far is the William baptised in Great Ellingham in 1703, the only problem is the date as it is a few years earlier than what his age on death suggests - how accurate though are the relatives when giving ages? Maybe not that accurate then. From my own research it seems there was quite a lot of movement in those days from Suffolk to Norfolk. Do you have any occupations for William and Mary's children which might suggest that could be what they did?
Food for thought.
Shirl
PS Here is a link to some information about early church baptisms http://www.gwoodward.co.uk/guides/baptisms.htm
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Tombstone at Caston reads
William Hardy died 25 April 1786 age 79 making his birth date 1696/7
Mary Hardy died 26 February 1782 age 70 making her birth date around 1712
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There is a Thomas Hardy who marries Mary Webb 1734 at Ringland Norfolk
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Thank you amondg,
Already had that info, but I put William's birth to be around 1707? Do you know if the headstone is available to photograph at Caston parish Church? Born in Caston parish, died in Caston parish, you would think there would be a birth and/or marriage record? There isn't, I had a search of Caston parish records by the Norfolk record office - nothing found. Their early life still remains a mystery?
Mike.
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All the memorials at Caston were transcribed 1981 by the Women's Institute in Caston. Information found on Norfolk Family History Society website. No photograph available.
It is a double stone, with a footstone inscribed WH.
See if someone who lives in Caston can get you one.
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Only the AT's and BT's of Caston have been transcribed NOT the actual parish registers.
They are available at the Norfolk Record Office catalogue number PD158.
Again if you are not in Norfolk the need for a researcher/volunteer to help is required.
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That surprises me, as the research undertaken by the Norfolk record office staff would have known that. Am I missing something here?
There is a gap in the Caston marriage registers 1691 - 1719 nothing was found from 1720 on.
Mike.
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I've read through this thread again and had a quick skim read of some of the online Caston ATs on Familysearch.org.
There are certainly records including marriages after 1720 although some pages say 'no marriages', others have the marriages in a bit of a jumble with the other entries. Some years are indeed missing.
Forgive me if I'm missing something, but we don't know for definite that William or Mary came from Caston so they could be baptised/married anywhere ??? and moved to Caston to work & bring up their family - as happened with my OH's ancestors. (Sorry, I didn't mean they moved to Caston!)
I haven't been at all helpful I know, sorry! Apologies too if I've misunderstood ;)
Pat
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True Pat, William's birth remains a mystery William and Mary's children were all born/baptised in Caston between 1735 and 1749. I have looked at all on-line records for the parishes surrounding Caston and cannot find a reference to William or Mary (maiden name unknown).
Not sure how far to broaden the search?
Mike.
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I'm no expert, Mike, I only wish I could help.
The furthest I got back with OH's ancestors was a couple who married in Norwich (online record gives no parish) in 1709. They moved to a village where they proceeded to have 10 children, baptisms clearly recorded, AND maiden name of the mother. But can I find her or her husband being baptised anywhere???? Their surnames are common for Norfolk, as is yours, so I have lots of possibles but none with the exact first names!!!
So I feel your pain, as they say! Any earlier records are just guesswork, I've recorded it as such and am happy to have got back as far as I have. But if only.....
I wish you luck!
Pat