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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Westby on Wednesday 11 February 15 05:53 GMT (UK)
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I've attached a photo - 11 x 8 cm mounted on card measuring 16 x 13.5cm. There is no information on the back of the photo, or anywhere on the card mount as to photographer, subject or anything else.
This is one of very few photos passed down from my father's family but I have been unable to determine anything about the subject, the location or the date.
Depending to which side of my father's family the photo relates, it could have been taken in Westmorland, Yorkshire, Lancashire (around Casterton, Kirkby Lonsdale, Sedburgh, Dent, Birkdale, Southport, Ribby with Wrea, Preston, etc) or in Kent.
I'd appreciate any suggestions to help date the photo, and suggestions about the cottage and its location. The cottage seems a little unusual to me, so perhaps that might provide some clues?
Thanks
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The door and window surrounds look like stone, I would think that's more likely to be in the north of England where stone was more plentiful than in Kent.
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Lovely photograph Westby. It does not look to me like Birkdale, Southport because the geography is relatively flat in these areas. It does look more fitting with Westmoreland and Kirkby Lonsdale area.
Sarah :)
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Datewise, Edwardian.
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The house is a very typical Westmorland cottage.
Mike
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I've sharpened the picture up a touch in case it helps anybody.
The curtains in one window in each house appears to be drawn. Is this picture to mark a bereavement?
Trystan
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These are typical of the area - they're not whitewashed like yours is, although a great many are. You can see how similar the architectural details are to your photo.
Mike
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More.
To be honest, your photo could be almost anywhere in this part of the world.
Mike
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Thanks all for your generous comments and photos. Much appreciated.
I'm pleased you seem to confirm the location is likely to be Westmorland. I was thinking that also, and the photos posted by Mike certainly look similar. However, the windows inn my cottage are different from these photos and from any I've seen elsewhere. As you'll notice, they are quite large for the building, and only have small openings. I've had suggested the cottage could have belonged weaver's or other trades needing plenty of light to work.
Photo dating has suggested 1901-08 based on the woman's dress. It's also been suggested the photographer was probably an itinerant with no fixed studio address (hence the lack of information on the mount). In the Victorian and Edwardian eras, travelling operators toured the hamlets, villages and small towns where there was no permanent photographer and photographed local residents by appointment.
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments. Hopefully we can continue to narrow down the location.
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I have tidied it up a little for you. I have seen opening windows like this somewhere, so it must be in the Westmorland area. There are still many cottages with the small panes, but not ones that open I would think.
All the villages around Kirkby Lonsdale are familiar to me, it could be Arkholme, Whittington, Dent anywhere around this area.
I feel I have seen this before, has it been posted earlier.
Pat
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It would be interesting googling any addresses you may have from the 1901 Census.
Sarah
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Thanks Pat. I have posted this on a couple of chat sites, though a couple of years ago, so you might have seen it then.
Interestingly Sarah, I was going back over my family tree and I don't think there were any relatives still living in Westmorland by 1900. My great grandmother had sisters around Marton, and Freckleton, Lancs but no close relatives in Westmorland.
The mystery continues!
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Could be Wales - there's differences but similar.
http://www.peoplescollectionwales.co.uk/items/18545 (http://www.peoplescollectionwales.co.uk/items/18545)
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I agree JG but I don't have any reason to believe we have any Welsh connections!
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... However, the windows inn my cottage are different from these photos and from any I've seen elsewhere. As you'll notice, they are quite large for the building, and only have small openings. I've had suggested the cottage could have belonged weaver's or other trades needing plenty of light to work....
The small pane windows in your photo are typical of workers' cottages at the end of the 19th century. I suspect that, in the photos I posted, these have since been replaced by sash windows.
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Yes, that had also occurred to me Mike. I can image easy opening sash windows would appeal rather than the tiny panes with very small openings.
Do you think the cottage could be further west and south in Lancs?
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Photo dating has suggested 1901-08 based on the woman's dress. It's also been suggested the photographer was probably an itinerant with no fixed studio address (hence the lack of information on the mount). In the Victorian and Edwardian eras, travelling operators toured the hamlets, villages and small towns where there was no permanent photographer and photographed local residents by appointment.
My thoughts were also very early 20th century, comparing dress with some of my ancestor's photos of that era. The lady looks like she's wearing her best dress and nice polished shoes. So an itinerant photographer who has made an appointment to take her photo would fit. It looks like the family next door are also dressed up too, so perhaps waiting for their turn with the photographer.
The drawn curtains may be just to keep out the sunlight and stop carpets and upholstery fading - my grandmother always did that in her "sitting room". I think there is too much decoration on the lady's dress for it to be a mourning outfit.
I don't know what others would estimate the lady's age to be. I guess around 50, but I have found people often seemed to look older than they actually were in those days.
Why is she being photographed on her own? A widow or spinster perhaps?
Have you any ladies born about 1860ish who might be living on their own by early 1900?
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Do you think the cottage could be further west and south in Lancs?
I'm not as familiar with that area as I am with Cumbria and Yorkshire, so I wouldn't like to say. All I know is that that style of cottage is exactly typical of this area.
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Weavers' cottages had a row of close together windows on the upper storey
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Weavers'_cottages,_Wardle.jpg/220px-Weavers'_cottages,_Wardle.jpg
Sorry shrink link didn't work!!
EDIT: Having now seen the Great Harwood pictures, I should have prefaced the above statement with 'in my part of W Yorkshire'!!
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These cottages look quite similar to one in photo. Windows have been replaced of course but original size and shape remains.
http://www.great-harwood.org.uk/about/Places/Houses/cottages.html
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Do you think it was taken on a Sunday and she was holding the Bible ?
Marton is very flat as too is Freckleton :-\ The style is similar to some cottages in Dent but you would not often see one rendered. I still think Westmorland or North Lancashire (from Preston/Garstang upwards) is my best guess.
Sarah :)
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Super photograph. Found a couple of images from 2007 from Paisley, Scotland annotated as weavers cottages. Window shape, surround and proportions appear to be identical. Otherwise, more modern sash windows have been substituted.
There was also a painting by Gaugin of a weavers cottage with similar window design.
I would date the building from about 1780 to 1820. Hopefully, there's an architectural expert who can be more precise.
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The curtains in one window in each house appears to be drawn. Is this picture to mark a bereavement?
The two people on the left appear to be wearing black as well
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If it was to mark a bereavement, I would expect a family group all in mourning outfits. Example here
http://rayner-stockden.lacchin.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/england/d1a-james-stockden-1900.jpg
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An another group in 1895
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eqg/
not sure if shrunk link worked
http://www.schuett.org/Family%20Album/the%20burke%20clan%20-%20late%201800s%20or%20early%201900s.jpg
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They were always demonstrating their piety then. I have a lovely photograph of my fathers grandmother, through his mother, sitting in the window of her cottage in Uffington, Berks (now Oxon) reading her bible. His paternal line were Bible Christians, so called, because they carried their bibles around with them.
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Thankyou all for your generous comments. I'll go through my family tree over the weekend and see if I can narrow down who the woman might be. If I have any further questions or suggestions for the experts on this topic, I'll post again. Hope you will continue to help if you are able.
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I did post a couple of Links but removed them, because on checking, the second and better one didn't work.
www.smashot.co.uk. Both show the same row of weaving cottages in Paisley, Scotland which are identical in design to yours, though not the same cottages as yours as far as I can see.
Hopefully, the Links will work for you, the latter being the better view.
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As a coincidence I have been to a funeral today and we went to a local village pub afterwards. The windows in the pub were small panes and several were able to open as in your photo.
Pat
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That's interesting Trishanne. Where was the pub?
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In a village called Brookhouse on the outskirts of Lancaster. Here's a photo
Pat
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I've corrected the Sma Shot Link, but 'The Black Bull' at Lancaster is a better image of the building window design. Surprising building designs could be same/similar yet far apart then. The Paisley one is earlier than I thought 1735 - 1750. Bad news for you, as your cottages could be anywhere although I can't think of one in the south of England.
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Lovely picture.
Just a couple of points - the people may not have been wearing black, it could be any dark colour from purple via dark green to dark blue.
And in terms of the book in the lady's hands - photographers did show people with books in their hands to demonstrate that they were literate. So this could be the reason.
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Thanks all for your ongoing suggestions. Still haven't got to working through the family tree in an attempt to find potential subjects and locations.
Regards