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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: donkeykong on Tuesday 10 February 15 14:30 GMT (UK)
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Looking for descendents of John Rutherford from Cootehill,Cavan. I think he died there and his family moved to Stirlingshirebetween 1840-50
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I am a direct descendant of John Rutherford, Cootehill, Co. Cavan, Ireland. He would have been born about 1795, location unknown. He is my father's 2nd great grandfather. Robert Rutherford, born about 1824 (location unknown but assumed Cootehill), is my father's 1st great grandfather. He stayed in Ireland. Perhaps they all stayed in Ireland and the family that immigrated to Scotland in the late 1840's was not this same family? There are many discrepancies as to what really happened here. I have a baptism record of Martha Rutherford, B1826, Drumgreen (just a kilometer or two outside Cootehill Town), father John Rutherford, mother Rebecca. I have a baptism record of John James Rutherford B1830, Drumgreen, father John Rutherford, no mother listed. I have a Confirmation record for Elizabeth Rutherford, Drumgreen, 1826.
I have several kits on all the DNA websites.
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Have you searched Civil reg for BDM'S?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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yes, that Robert Rutherford that married Mary Jamison (Widow Jamieson) in 1964, is my 2nd great grandfather. Most of those listed are my ancestors. There are only 3 that I do not know - Letitia Rutherford, Mathew (McCauley) Rutherford, and the death of Margaret Rutherford. I have seen their names many times in my searches but maybe I will order the actual transcript of the records as they might yield a bit more information. I did that for wedding Registry of Robert in 1964 and that's how I know "John" Rutherford is his father. How I would love to know who is mother was....I'd give an eye tooth for that info. I also found out that Mary Gray (who is the Widow Jamieson) came from Drumnagran. Her father was Robert Gray, a shoe maker. Funny, my father is a shoe maker in his spare time! Anything else you might know, I would love to hear. Thank you!
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I also found out that Mary Gray (who is the Widow Jamieson) came from Drumnagran. Her father was Robert Gray, a shoe maker.
From the 1864 marriage which you have, the residences of Robert Rutherford and Mary Anne Jamison are Caldry?, parish of Drumgoon and Drumnagran, parish of Killinsherdany (sic) i.e. Kildrumsherdan.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/drumgoon/
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/tullygarvey/kildrumsherdan/tullyvin-west/drumnagran/
KG
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I am a direct descendant of John Rutherford, Cootehill, Co. Cavan, Ireland. He would have been born about 1795, location unknown. He is my father's 2nd great grandfather. Robert Rutherford, born about 1824 (location unknown but assumed Cootehill), is my father's 1st great grandfather. He stayed in Ireland. Perhaps they all stayed in Ireland and the family that immigrated to Scotland in the late 1840's was not this same family? There are many discrepancies as to what really happened here. I have a baptism record of Martha Rutherford, B1826, Drumgreen (just a kilometer or two outside Cootehill Town), father John Rutherford, mother Rebecca. I have a baptism record of John James Rutherford B1830, Drumgreen, father John Rutherford, no mother listed. I have a Confirmation record for Elizabeth Rutherford, Drumgreen, 1826.
I have several kits on all the DNA websites.
Is this your kit?
John Rutherford,
born ca. 1800
John Rutherford married Rebecca Martin in 1824 in Drumgreen, Drumgoon Parish in County Cavan, Ireland. Their son Robert was born in Cootehill and died there in 1886. Robert's son John was born in 1864, emigrated to New York City in 1898, and eventually returned to Cootehill with his wife and four children.
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Is the John whose death was registered by his daughter in law Rose one of yours? Might lead to living descendants with knowledge of family history.
Of those in Cootehill District have you looked for their Marriages 1845 onwards? Martha for example.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
adjust Search criteria as needed.
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Hi
I'm near Cootehill
There was a shoe shop Cootehill in 1980.s / 90.s I don't know if these same Rutherfords they moved away to Cavan town about 20 KM.
You could email our local Cavan paper the Anglo Celt they will publish a letter for you.There will be a small cost but paper is popular and someone will know who your looking for.
This is a closely knit rural community families here generations
Other option is contact Cavan Library they have genealogy Dept.
I'd try paper first
At moment paper and library may be closed ? Due to corona virus restrictions but you can try emailing them.
Best of Luck
S
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Thanks S - those Rutherford's who owned the shoe shop were first cousins of my father's. Small world! It's Thomas Rutherford who owned that shop and he is the one who first started this genealogy hunt looking into his paternal line. I'm just carrying it on. It's not easy now when trying to get back in time to 1850 and beyond. I have looked through all the Celt issues for Rutherford and I have corresponded with the Cavan Library, where everyone is incredibly helpful but the records are almost non existent. I've gone to the Church of Ireland who found what they could in their books. But so much is still missing. It's the graveyards I need next. I wish I could get over there myself. I need to check whereever people were buried that belonged to Church of Ireland from about 1800 - 1890. Hope you are managing ok with this crazy pandemic.
Tina
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Hi Tina
It's a small world !
I remember Rutherfords in town lovely people.
I'm Sorry I don't know which graveyards you'd want.....i just know the Catholic ones
St Michael's church is Station Road Cootehill this is newest graveyard.
St Marys Middle Chapel which is about 4 KM outta town is older one.
Some of the shop owners Cootehill would be able tell you about churches if your around..They are very helpful.
V Reillys Main Street
or Hannigans Grocery.
Both in.Cootehill long time.Have Good knowledge of town.
There is a Mr Jonathan Smyth works Cavan library he would know local area he writes various history articles for paper.
You could write email Anglo Celt paper I do see occasional letters being published people looking ancestors.
Do.you know of a family called Murphy close to Cootehill they are related to Rutherfords who had shoe shop ( Tom).
I can get you more info I know the son to see.i haven't seen him ages but I would know their townland.
Oh this corona virus is surreal.We cannot go further than 2km.My job closed for few weeks.
Best Regards
S
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Hi Tina
I have been talking my parents.
I have found the McCauley link Cootehill .The lady was McCauley before marriage.
I know where house is...i thought she was Rutherford but I was wrong.She sadly passed away last year but her family are still here.
Let me know what info you need
Best Regards
S
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Hi Tina
Not sure if this info of use to you but ..
A Rutherford family was living in Carolina Cootehill in 1911 census..
Mary Anne McGahan born 1871 New York married a.John Rutherford.in 1898
Her parents are George & Anne McGahan Caldry Cootehill .Anne McGahans name was formerly Ryder or Markey
John Rutherford is listed as being born Drumgreen Dec 14 1864 but on census Carolina 1911 says he was born New York
John and Marys Anne's Rutherfords children in 1911 census ( house number 11 )Carolina
John 10
Mary 9
George 7
Lizzie 6
Pierce 4
James 3
Thomas ? Baby
John Rutherford age 47 and Mary Anne Rutherford 40 in 1911 both listed as being born New York ?
Family listed as Roman Catholic on census
Mary Anne Rutherford died aged 59 in 1931
Best Regards
S
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Hi Tina
I only googled Rutherford Carolina Cootehill as my dad mentioned when he was a child 1940.s a Rutherford man from Carolina had a machine for thrashing corn ..My Dad THINKS name was Jude Rutherford but it's over 70 years ago....
So i don't know if any decendants still in Carolina. Local Postman would know.
The only ones I knew were the people who had shop Cootehill.
Well that's everything I can find.
Best of Luck
S
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Hi G, I am so sorry to not see these replies last year. My father was very sick just about that time and I guess I was consumed with that. My father was Jude (John) Rutherford. He would be the man who had the corn thrashing machine. He probably built it himself because that was the kind of person he was. He built everything.
Is it possible that you can email me directly? I dont know if I'm allowed to give email addresses on this site?
John Rutherford, B1864, was my father's grandfather. He was def born in Cavan. I believe it was Caldry and he was a neighbor of the McGahan's. Mary Anne McGahan, his wife, was also def born there in Caldry. The Census is wrong but it wouldn't be the first time. They did spend some years in New York and some of their children were born in NYC.
I would like to know if Mary Anne McGahan's mother was a Ryder or a Markey however. So if you have anything solid on that it would be appreciated. I've seen it both ways in the records so she must have been a widow and remarried but her maiden name is what I would be after to get the bloodline.
Can you tell me more about the McCauley's. You mentioned them briefly. I think there was another Matthew McCauley in Cootehill, originally from Ballybay, spent years in New Zealand, and returned to Ireland, living in Cootehill. He might have been a doctor. His name was Rutherford as well and he was involved with Reid/Mayne/Brown's - Presbyterian.
I'm really trying to go back pre1850. That's my main goal. I am looking for the family of Robert Rutherford, born about 1824, probably in Drumgreen. He was John Rutherford's (1864) father. And Robert's father was John Rutherford who would have been born about 1780 - 1800. That's my main goal. I don't know if an ad in the Celt would help me with this. It's the Protestant graveyard that might be better.
The Murphy's are related to Tomas Rutherford's wife, Maura. They are in touch with her and me too through the DNA sites.
Thanks for all your digging. Let me know if I can email you.
Twinshoes
Twinshoes
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Is it possible that you can email me directly? I dont know if I'm allowed to give email addresses on this site?
The posting of e-mail addresses is forbidden here on RootsChat, but you can use the PM (Personal Message) system to exchange your e-mail addresses.
When logged in, just click on My Messages (in the dark brown bar at the top) and then click ‘Send a Message’.
KG
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Hi Twinshoes
There is a 1868 birth listed for a Mary Anne McGahan, showing her mother’s maiden name as Markey. See:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03452/2267345.pdf
Cheers
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Thank you Kiltaglassan!
Thank you LH!
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Hi Everyone
Just seeing your messages been off this site for months back working full time
I don't have anymore info
Your best bet is publish letter Anglo Celt
It definately works as it did for me
Do you want me to drop note to Mr Murphy the son ?
I'm not far away I have send him card anyway his father passed away recently RIP
I see you mention Drumgreen
If you email Johnathan Smyth Cavan library or Anglo Celt he will help.
His family are beside Drumgreen He will have knowledge of churches he just published a book on one of the Churches
There's McGahans right by Drumgreen too neighbours so if Any you need me to drop a note I can
All these families are here generations they know locality
I don't came here 1980
My dad is originally Cootehill
Interesting my father remembers Jude Rutherford
Best Regards
SM
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Hi Twinshoes
You mention getting back further than 1850
I'm only back as far as 1832 for my own family tree ( Cootehill side).
I got census 1911 & 1901
Valuation tenements 1856 give names & townland its useful.
Before that tithes 1832 but they only give names not much detai.
That's everything I can get on paper
The church records I haven't looked at many..There used be books in Priests house Cootehill.i went there once for a cert but wasn't able go through books myself.
Alot my ancestors buriel plot is Middle Chapel but headstones are on but not all names..I don't know name of our previous Catholic church.
I know St Michael's Cootehill the grave yard is very recent perhaps late 1980.s
There are birth marriage death records over Cavan town at entrance to Cavan hospital the staff again go through books I was at it years ago they charge a small fee per cert.
If you want Church of Ireland or other religions contact J Smyth.
I can't get any more paper records that's why I tried the DNA tests
Best Regards
SM
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There are birth marriage death records over Cavan town at entrance to Cavan hospital the staff again go through books I was at it years ago they charge a small fee per cert.
Vital records (births, death, marriages) are now online so you can search and view from the comfort of your home. Aside from that not sure what places are actually open to the public at the moment for non-essential services.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Lots of CAVAN RESOURCES listed at the top of the CAVAN board and more can be found in the IRISH RESOURCES board-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=506500.0
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/ireland-resources/
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Hi SM,
Yes, I thought that was very cool about the Corn thrashing machine and "Jude" Rutherford. Dad never mentioned a corn thrashing machine but he invented alot of machines so that's why I'm not at all surprised.
I am in touch with Murphy all right through another DNA website so we have had correspondence.
The McGahan's are the same. We know them too. They are closer type cousins.
I did correspond with Mr. Smythe a few times but I didn't know his family was located close to Drumgreen. My father was alive at the time and he was more interested in knowing which Smythe he was. He wondered if he was any relation of Paddy Smyth the TD who used to be in talking to my Grandmother, Rose Rutherford, (many many years ago). I'll try Mr. Smythe again. I'll also try the Celt.
It's many generations back, probably to about pre1800-1849 I'm looking for John Rutherford and wife, Rebecca, who were in Drumgreen and had at least 2 children born there in 1820's. There were Wrights and Reilly's there was well as Pritchard. I can see the names on the Tithe Applotment Records. My Rutherford's moved from there to Maghernacaldry, and then to Carolina. Then to Drumrooghill with Vincent, the one who stayed in the area.
Thanks so much for all your help. It was really quite nice reading all this. I enjoyed it very much.
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Here's the link to the Tithe Applotment Books for Drumgreen (1828) - at bottom of page.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587434/004587434_00130.pdf
KG
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Thank you KG - I have seen that allright - was lucky enough to find it as it doesn't search under Co. Cavan. Its mistakenly found under Co. Down. I've tried to report the error but I can't get the link to do it right for some reason. Now it's those neighbors of John Rutherford that I would love to have a chat with! Wrights, Reillys, Kearneys, Pritehard, and the Widow Anne Smith.
Thank you SM! I am going to try to message you privately as I would love to compare your DNA results with you being from around that area. I have a pretty good knowledge of how to use the DNA sites. There's also the Census in the 1820's which can be found on Findmypast.com. It's a paying site. Not all the areas are on there but there are some parts of Cavan. There's also Roots Ireland which is another paying site but I couldn't live without it. We have plenty of relations buried in the Middle Chapel. I have now messaged Johnathan Smyth in the only way I can find to make contact. The previous email I had was no longer functional. I would need the Church of Ireland Records. I have been in contact with several of their churches in the last 2 years and did get a bit of information all right but they sent their books off to Dublin, whatever books they had, and a woman was kind enough to give me something before they shipped them off. I would love to get a look through the books myself.
There is also a John Rutherford who had a notions and linnen shop on Main St. Cootehill, 1830's, as was seen in a businesses census of the area, and I wonder if he is the same John Rutherford from Drumgreen.
Anyway, at this point if there's someone out there who is related to the Wrights, Reillys, Kearneys, Pritchard, and Smiths of Drumgreen 1800-1850, I would love to hear from them. Perhaps compare DNA!
Twinshoes
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Thank you Aghadowey, I'll check out all the links.
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I have seen that allright - was lucky enough to find it as it doesn't search under Co. Cavan. Its mistakenly found under Co. Down. I've tried to report the error but I can't get the link to do it right for some reason.
You appear to be only able to change the surname and forename of the person.......nothing else ???
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yes, not a very good remedy as quite a few of us would include Cavan. I'm sure I missed this information for a few years because of it. It was only when I started to drop specific filters in most of my searches that a whole new word opened up for me. That would include Roots Ireland as well many other sites. Put in very little information and that will yield far more. Patterns of obvious error start to materialize.