RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: aakarlhamo on Monday 09 February 15 16:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi
My Great grandfather Allen Serjeant b1873 Harlton was in the in the Royal Berkshires, his number was 3986 between 2 Oct 1893 and the 1 Oct 1902. On his papers for question 10 where it asks if they now belong to HM Army etc Allen answers, Yes, 3rd Batt Royal Fusiliers. It looks like he was already in the army before 1893 although I have found any army papers for him?
I would love to learn more about where Allen went and what he did when he was away - in particular the West Indies although I would love to know about Halifax and what he did in the Boar War too.
The only info I have on his papers are the dates:
HOME 02.10.93 - 13.11.95 = 2 YRS 43 DAYS
HALIFAX NS 14.11.95 - 23.10.95 = 1 YR 344 DAYS
WEST INDIES 24.10.95 - 18.11.98 = 1 YR 26 DAYS
HOME 19.11.98 - 30.12.98 = 42 DAYS
SOUTH AFRICA 31.12.98 - 12.12.02 = 3 YRS 4 DAYS
HOME 13.02.02 - 01.10.05 = 3 YRS 231 DAYS
Can anyone help me with some info.
Thanks
Carole
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His papers are on FindMyPast, surname spelt Sergeant, if you want to get yourself a few credits to see them.
STG
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Thanks, I'll have a look and see if they are pre 1893 as I have these and all the others which take me upto 1819 if I remember correctly.
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No luck. There were 2 1887 records that looked promising but it was a Chelsea Pensioner Discharge book no army records and wrong regiment.
I should have checked his profile first for dates as in 1891 he was working as an iron moulder so maybe he with the 3rd Batt Royal Fusaliers for a year or two previous to his 1893 papers?
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Carole,
You can tell where he was in the BoeR by the names of the clasps to his Queens South Africa Medal.
You may find something of interest here.
www.thewardrobe.org.uk
You can always contact them for more detailed information on what he may have been doing, but there would be a charge.
Jebber
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You missed off the important bit as it says the 3rd Bn Royal Fusiliers were Militia. Men enlisted in the Militia for six years during time which they did 49 or 84 days training on enlistment followed by annual training of 6-8 weeks each. They were paid the same a Regular soldiers. Joining the Militia first was a wise move as to purchase a discharge from the Regular army cost £20, but only £2 from the Militia. Militiamen switching to the Regulars got a free discharge
The overseas posting were to ensure that the colony stayed British. Soldiers with approved wives would take their families with them.
Which copy of his record do you have - off FindMyPast or Ancestry? As there is a copy on both. The Ancestry copy is in the 'pension' files and includes a copy of his death certificate. After the fire in 1940 other departments were asked for files to replace those lost. His was sent over as he died in 1942.
He was already serving in South Africa with the 2nd Battalion Berkshires when the Boer War started. They were involved in the defeat at Stormberg. As a defeat they did not issue a clasp. Hence why he only has the three standard state clasps. The Kings medal was for being in SA for 18 months.
His poor discipline prevented him earning good conduct badges (worth one penny a day extra pay). Once his 'twelve' was up he extended in the Army Reserve for another four years. He married when he was in the AR. He would not have received permission if he was full-time in the regiment, as you needed two GC badges (and £5 in the Post Office) to apply for permission to marry. Reservists served ten days a year in exchange for half-pay.
It looks as if Ancestry have him as being with the Royal Fusiliers which is wrong.
Ken
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Carole
As advised try the Regimental Museum Website as a starter. He is not shown in the online collection by name but if you go to the website….there click RESEARCH/COLLECTION/UNIT between the dates 1893 - 1905 you will get 477 hits relating to the battalion, Medals, some documents but mainly images and I am sure your soldier will appear in one of them albeit not named. Well worth a look to see what the battalion was up to. Then try the Regimental timeline (Taken from the digest of service) between the same dates for the 66th - 2nd Battalion and you should pick up further info regarding movements which could supplement your paperwork and assist in building the picture. www.thewardrobe.org.uk
Good Hunting
Cheers
Maiwand
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Thank you everyone for all the info - I'm still exploring and I have started a pintrest board for photos.
No medals or family info because I was adopted out as a baby.
Sorry Ken, couldn't read the word militiamen ;)
I am on Ancestry but I had a few credits for FindMyPast so I pulled up the 1893 record for him and it appears to be the same as Ancestry albeit clearer to read - it's rather grim reading though, the bugger!
If I have read Allen's records right and the info I've picked up from the sites so far, I think he was originally with the 1st Battalion in Halifax and the West Indies and then on 31st Dec 1898 he transferred to the 2nd Battalion and went to S Africa? What would he have been doing in the West Indies?
How do I find out what company he was in?
His future wife lived next door to his brother who was also an iron moulder so I expect they met when he visited. They married 25 Dec 1903.
Thanks again
Carole
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What would he have been doing in the West Indies?Carole
Making sure it stayed British. Colonial powers had to keep a military presence in all its overseas territorials to (a) act as a police force and (b) to ensure another colonial power did not take possession.
The museum may have a 'historical records' which will tell you where in the West Indies they were stationed. Unfortunately they had stopped producing muster books so you will not discover where Sergeant was.
Ken
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I have an ancestor who joined the RBR in 1894 and all The Wardrobe could find on him were his joining and leaving dates and the details the campaign medals/bars he was awarded. Nothing explicit about where he'd served, conduct, description, ranks, etc, but the fact that he had Boer War medals told me that he'd served in SA.
STG