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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 02:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 02:40 GMT (UK)
Help needed to trace Elizabeth Fawn..... FAWN Elizabeth arrived in SA 1849-06-20 aboard Florentia from London via Plymouth 49-03-09 Source:6,20 (T MITCHELL),30  She married Thomas Mitchell 23rd Mar 1850. However when I checked the ship.....barque Florentia, 453 tons, Captain C.S. Tindale, from London & Plymouth 9th March 1849, arrived at Port Adelaide, South Australia 20th June 1849 she is not listed as a passenger. Her marriage is listed in BMD. I am hoping a certificate is available so that I can trace her parentage. What I have at present on http://roy1939.tribalpages.com/ and publc tree ancestry.com I think is completely wrong. Roy
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: jomcd967 on Thursday 05 February 15 02:46 GMT (UK)
She is aboard the Florentia in June 1849:
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/florentia1849.shtml
Aged 21, no other details or obvious other family aboard.

Jo  :)
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 02:55 GMT (UK)
She is aboard the Florentia in June 1849:
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/florentia1849.shtml
Aged 21, no other details or obvious other family aboard.

Jo  :)
Thanks jom. I've found her. Scrolled down and checked the whole list. No family makes me wonder why she emigrated. I want to trace her husband too. Looks like he arrived in SA from Tasmania
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 05 February 15 03:09 GMT (UK)
Do you know when Thomas Mitchell arrived in South Australia? There is a Thomas Mitchell departing George Town, Tasmania for Adelaide on 29 Dec 1845 on the Margaret. (on the Linc Tasmania website http://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names).

Also a Thomas Mitchel departing George town for Adelaide on 6 July 1846 on the Raven.

If you know any more details about him this is a good website for free records.  ;)
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 03:28 GMT (UK)
Aussie Roy you have posted your request on the Resources and Offers board.  It needs to be on the main Australian board.  I will ask a moderator to move it.

Lots of resources for South Australia
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 03:31 GMT (UK)
Quote
I am hoping a certificate is available so that I can trace her parentage

Certificates in South Australian have scant information.  Little more than the indexes.

Marriage certificates do not list the fathers of the bride and groom until 1857.

Information on BDM certs in SA
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.msg738037#msg738037

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 03:54 GMT (UK)
Biographical Index of South Australians  1836-1885 Not always 100% accurate and this appears to be submitted information.

MITCHELL Thomas
Parents Samuel and Mary Ann nee PICKNELL
Born 24 Jun 1817 Cuckfield SSX ENG  and died 2 May 1871 Kadina, SA
Buried Payneham SA
Arrived in 1836 DUKE OF YORK
Occupation  Miller, Butcher
Lived Kadina, Stepney   Religion Church of England
Married 23 Mar 1850 Adelaide SA Elizabeth nee FAWN born 27 Mar 1827 Horsham SSX ENG
Died 12 Feb 1914 Stepney SA
Arrived 1849 FLORENTIA
Children Elizabeth Anne SCRIVENER 1851-, Walter 1854-1938, Frances Maria BENGER 1856-1937, Samuel 1857-1930, Mary Amelia 1858-1939, William Henry 1865-1947, Emma
Adelaide WINGROVE 1867-, Julia Rose SPRINGBETT, Emily Alice 1870-1914.


FAWN Elizabeth
Baptism     3 Aug 1828 Horsham,Sussex,England
Parents   William  and Elizabeth

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1836DukeOfYork.htm
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1849Florentia.htm

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 04:09 GMT (UK)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28601240
The South Australian Advertiser 8 May 1871
MITCHELL.—On 2nd May, at Kadina, Mr. Thomas Mitchell, late of Stepney, aged 51 years.

Photo of headstone at Payneham Cemetery - available on request. Please ensure you mention cemetery and photo and file number.

Email address here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/cemetery_index.htm

MITCHELL Thomas (born Cuckfield Sussex 1817 died 1871, arrived 1836, Elizabeth(Fawn) 1827-1914, Emily Alice 1914, Mary (Squires) 1891, Mary Amelia 1939 age 80, William Henry 1949, Henrietta 1952, Kenneth 1901, Charles 1899, Donald 1920

Photo Number 2771   File 3
   
Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 04:14 GMT (UK)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5413192
The Advertiser 13 Feb 1914
THE FRIENDS of the late Mrs. ELIZABETH J. MITCHELL are respectfully informed that her Remains will be Removed from her late Residence, Ann street, Stepney, on FRIDAY, at 2.30 p.m, for interment in Payneham Cemetery
G. J TREVELION Undertaker,
Phone 748     Magill road, Norwood.


http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5414897
The Advertiser 18 Feb 1914

Mrs. Elizabeth Mitchell, who died at Stepney at the age of 86 years and 11 months, arrived in South Australia by the ship Florienshire, in the early part of 1849.

She was married to the late Mr. Thomas Mitchell at St. Luke's Church in March, 1850. She left three sons - Messrs. Walter Mitchell (College Park), S. Mitchell (Port Pirie), and W. H. Mitchell (St. Peters), and six daughters - Mrs. Scrivener (near Houghton), Mrs. Burgess (Evandale), Mrs. Springhill (Strathalbyn), Mrs. Wingrove (Mile-End), and Misses Amelia and Emily Mitchell (Stepney).

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 04:22 GMT (UK)
Aussie Roy you have posted your request on the Resources and Offers board.  It needs to be on the main Australian board.  I will ask a moderator to move it.

Lots of resources for South Australia
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0

Cando
Sorry.....  one of my many senior moments
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 04:25 GMT (UK)
Do you know when Thomas Mitchell arrived in South Australia? There is a Thomas Mitchell departing George Town, Tasmania for Adelaide on 29 Dec 1845 on the Margaret. (on the Linc Tasmania website http://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names).

Also a Thomas Mitchel departing George town for Adelaide on 6 July 1846 on the Raven.

If you know any more details about him this is a good website for free records.  ;)
I have nothing more than the marriage to Elizabeth Fawn. Hoping marriage records will provide more
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 04:28 GMT (UK)
Quote
I have nothing more than the marriage to Elizabeth Fawn. Hoping marriage records will provide more
Aussie Roy

Reply#5

Quote
Certificates in South Australian have scant information.  Little more than the indexes.

Marriage certificates do not list the fathers of the bride and groom until 1857.

Information on BDM certs in SA
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.msg738037#msg738037

And another obituary with slightly different married surnames for the daughters.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article163122786
The Observer 31 Feb 1914

Mrs. E. Mitchell.

The death occurred at Stepney on February 2 of Mrs. Elizabeth Mitchell, at the age of 86 years and 11 months. As a single woman (Miss Elizabeth Fawn) she arrived in South-Australia by the ship Florienshire in the early part of 1849, and was  married to the late Mr. Thomas Mitchell at St. Luke's Church in March, 1850.
With the exception of eight years spent near Wasleys, the deceased lived in the city and suburbs.
She left three sons—Messrs. Walter Mitchell (College Park). S. Mitchell (Port Pirie),and W H Mitchell (St. Peters): and six daughters — Mrs. Scrivener (near Houghton), Mrs. Benger (Evandale). Mrs. Springbett (Strathalbyn), Mrs. Wingrove (Mile-End), and Misses Amelia and Emily Mitchell (Stepney).

Are you a descendant?

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 05 February 15 08:52 GMT (UK)
Just wondering what makes you think Thomas may have arrived from Tasmania? There are a few Thomas Mitchell's arriving in SA in the early c19, including the one I guess is on the tree you have, arrived 27 July 1836 (crew) from London on the Duke of York.

Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 11:32 GMT (UK)
Maddy I assume you are aware that the Colony of South Australia first immigrants arrived 1836. 
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/SAShips1836.htm

The MITCHELL headstone at Payneham Cemetery appears to be quite detailed.  I have posted the info on a previous post.

The family information is not a tree but submitted information.  BISA is is a biographical work containing approximately 100,000 entries of South Australians who were born or arrived in the colony during this period.  The information was gleaned from research by the South Australian Genealogy and Heraldry Society in archives, public records, private papers, and letters of administrations as well as contributions from individuals.  It is a valuable resource for historians.

It isn't always 100% accurate as the information is taken from paper based records including newspapers for many of the passenger arrivals.  The survival rate of ships manifests in South Australia is poor.  I always attempt to validate the information but I'll leave that to Aussie Roy.

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1836DukeOfYork.htm
Information on its crew and passengers is in the REGISTER, June 28th 1894, page 4h.
Information for the DUKE OF YORK's crew and passengers is in the REGISTER February 25th 1911, page 49e.

The Log Book for the DUKE OF YORK's voyage in 1836 by Captain Robert Clarke MORGAN available to view in the South Australian Archives.

There are lots of links in the South Australian Resources section.

If you are having any difficulties searching just ask for help.

Cheers  :)
Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 11:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all this information.  Tracing the Australian end has become easier. I was hoping for written confirmation that Elizabeth was the daughter of William and Elizabeth... Elizabeth Fawn  Baptism Date: 3 Aug 1828 Baptism Place: Horsham, Sussex, England Father: William Fawn Mother: Elizabeth (Bedford) FHL Film Number: 1041543 Reference ID: item 3 p 279. I would seem so. Why she emigrated alone will remain a mystery. No convicts came to South Australia but I find that her father and siblings weren't exactly honest according to what I have found on ancestry.
   The same with Thomas Mitchell, no definite confirmation that he was the son of Samuel and Ann. He may have been a convict. Something I am checking on.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 12:17 GMT (UK)
Thomas MITCHELL was not a convict.  He was a seaman and a member of the crew of the DUKE of YORK.

Hundreds of young girls and young woman emigrated to South Australia and many alone. I don't see that Elizabeth's emigration from England to be any different to many others who were looking for a better life.

Roy I would treat any online trees you may have found with a deal of caution, some reach into the realms of genealogical fantasy ::)

The information on the submitted information on BISA appears to have been well researched and well before the internet. Compiled by 1986.   I found with my own and OH's families that much of the family history had been taken from parish registers in England and Ireland by relatives visiting on holidays.

You have copied and pasted the baptism information from Ancestry and rootschat guidelines are that you must transcribe the information.

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Thursday 05 February 15 12:22 GMT (UK)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article58609776
The Register  1911
Article about the DUKE of YORK  - our earliest ship

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 23:04 GMT (UK)


You have copied and pasted the baptism information from Ancestry and rootschat guidelines are that you must transcribe the information.

Cando
[/quote] I copied and pasted from my family tree on ancestry  I have PAID for that, It's mine. I pasted it to here and made alterations so it is NOT an exact direct copy
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Thursday 05 February 15 23:06 GMT (UK)
This might help other searchers
I have found via facebook someone who provides FREE photos of graves around South Australia............http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/
 She sent me photos of Mitchell and Fawn graves. Lo and behold, all the information I needed is the on plaques.   E-mail address available (message me)
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Friday 06 February 15 03:11 GMT (UK)
This might help other searchers
I have found via facebook someone who provides FREE photos of graves around South Australia............http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/
 She sent me photos of Mitchell and Fawn graves. Lo and behold, all the information I needed is the on plaques.   E-mail address available (message me)
Aussie Roy

Are you reading all the information posted on the thread. 

I gave that link to you in reply#7.
The website is well known to researchers and is included in the FREE links South Australian Resources at the top of the board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0
Have a browse as you may find some other links that will help you with your research.

Quote
Photo of headstone at Payneham Cemetery - available on request. Please ensure you mention cemetery and photo and file number.

Email address here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/cemetery_index.htm

MITCHELL Thomas (born Cuckfield Sussex 1817 died 1871, arrived 1836, Elizabeth(Fawn) 1827-1914, Emily Alice 1914, Mary (Squires) 1891, Mary Amelia 1939 age 80, William Henry 1949, Henrietta 1952, Kenneth 1901, Charles 1899, Donald 1920

Photo Number 2771   File 3
  Cando

Good luck with your research

Cheers
Cando


Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Aussie Roy on Friday 06 February 15 04:50 GMT (UK)
 Aussie Roy

Are you reading all the information posted on the thread. 

I gave that link to you in reply#7.
The website is well known to researchers and is included in the FREE links South Australian Resources at the top of the board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0
Have a browse as you may find some other links that will help you with your research.

[/quote]  Aussie Roy Unfortunately I don't read everything. My brain runs ahead and I miss things. I'll try to read all.
 My next problem is with  Emma Mitchell dau of Thomas and Elizabeth b 1867. She married a bit late in life 1906 to Clarence James Wingrove who is proving to be an elusive character. Ancestry comes up with b. 1872 Wycombe, Buckinghamshire,  I have father Alfred, mother Mary Ann Wheeler. No birth registered in England or Aus.  These parents are probably correct as it seems a child was born at sea
Name   Wingrove or Wingroves
Birth Date:   14 Oct 1877
Birthplace:   Merchant Marine, at Sea, Great Britain Father's Name   Alfred Wingrove Mother's Name Mary Jane Wheeler
Can anyone explain ?
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Friday 06 February 15 04:56 GMT (UK)
Roy I find it helps to jot things down as I read posts and that gives me time to absorb the information.  Often initial excitement at finding new information can cause one to miss small snips that are important in the big picture.

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: cando on Friday 06 February 15 10:02 GMT (UK)
From Biographical Index of South Australians.

WINGROVE Alfred Born c1845 England and died 3 Jun 1914
Buried Stirling SA
Arrived 1877 QUEEN of NATIONS
Occupation Agricultural Labourer, Squatter
Lived Nantawarra, Mylor   Religion Church of England
Married Mary Jane born c1845 England Died 10 Jan 1910
Children Ernest c1867-1953, Walter c1870-m Clarence c1872-, Wm c18874-, Clara c1876-, Mary Jane 1877-, Louisa Jane 1881-1938 and Henry Edward Wheeler 1883-.

According to the 1851 census his father was Alfred and mother Keziah
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Sep 1838 
BARTON    Keziah        Amersham    6/357   
WINGROVE    Alfred     Amersham    6/357

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Births Jun 1844 
WINGROVE    Alfred Wycombe    6/429

Marriages Jun 1866
WINGROVE Alfred  Wycombe  3a/625
WHEELER Mary J    Wycombe   3a/625   

1871 Census RG10/1404/16/24
Living at Tylers Green, Chipping Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
WINGROVE Alfred  Head Married  25 years   Born Penn, Buckinghamshire
WINGROVE Mary Jane  Married Wife  26 years   Born Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
WINGROVE Ernest F Son  3 years  Born   Islington, Middlesex
WINGROVE Walter  Son  1 years     Born  Penn, Buckinghamshire

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Births Mar 1872 
WINGROVE    Clarence James    Wycombe    3a/499

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article404746  26 Oct 1877
Immigrants expected to arrive on the QUEEN OF NATIONS with A Wingrove, wife and five children.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article73068097
Arrived 2nd Dec.

SA Records passenger search is not functioning again.
http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/content/our-catalogue

This birth registered in South Australia - from my resource

WINGROVE Henrietta Hannah Eliza
14 Oct 1877
Father Alfred WINGROVE  Mother Mary Jane WHEELER
At Adelaide  Ade 192/340

You can search SA bdm
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

Cando
Title: Re: Elizabeth Fawn
Post by: Jill on the A272 on Monday 21 September 15 18:13 BST (UK)
Biographical Index of South Australians  1836-1885 Not always 100% accurate and this appears to be submitted information.

MITCHELL Thomas
Parents Samuel and Mary Ann nee PICKNELL
Born 24 Jun 1817 Cuckfield SSX ENG  and died 2 May 1871 Kadina, SA
Buried Payneham SA
Arrived in 1836 DUKE OF YORK
Occupation  Miller, Butcher
Lived Kadina, Stepney   Religion Church of England
Married 23 Mar 1850 Adelaide SA Elizabeth nee FAWN born 27 Mar 1827 Horsham SSX ENG
Died 12 Feb 1914 Stepney SA
Arrived 1849 FLORENTIA
Children Elizabeth Anne SCRIVENER 1851-, Walter 1854-1938, Frances Maria BENGER 1856-1937, Samuel 1857-1930, Mary Amelia 1858-1939, William Henry 1865-1947, Emma
Adelaide WINGROVE 1867-, Julia Rose SPRINGBETT, Emily Alice 1870-1914.


[

Cando

Thomas Mitchell born c1817 is in my tree, I believe the birthdate is inaccurate in Biographical Index of South Australians  1836-1885, for a start it is a baptism date, not a birth date.

Thomas Mitchell b1817 is in Neithrop, Oxfordshire, England as a solicitor's clerk on both the 1851 and 1861 census so is not the same man that emigrated to Australia.

I see the Australian death register gives his age at death in 1871 as 51, giving a birth date of c1820. There is a baptism at Cuckfield for a Thomas Mitchell on 14th May 1820 son of Samuel Mitchell, labourer and Jane which would seem to be a far better match for the Thomas Mitchell who died at Kadina.