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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: rayaco on Wednesday 28 January 15 21:49 GMT (UK)
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William Atkinson born 1788, Newcastle upon tyne, England. Moved to Australia, don't know the circumstances, trying to find out about him. Think he died in 1849, Victoria Australia. Can anyone help in finding any information? Thanks
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rayco.....
Australian records are fairly detailed at death..... the parents are needed to distinguish to which Atkinson you desire.... fairly popular name in every state......
so can u post some additional material to help us find your correct chap ?
fusion
:)
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Sorry don't have parents name at this time, only know he was in england in 1823 and had a son called Robert, daughter in law Jane and grandson Jeriamiah. He was born in england and went to australia after 1823. Don't know the circumstances, why he went to australia. Thank you for your quick reply. Will let you know when we get more info.
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Have you exhausted all the resources available at RChat's Australia Board?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
British Colony of Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land) hived off from British Colony of New South Wales 1825, so before then, do consider using NSW resources.
New South Wales 1788
Following hived off from NSW Administration on the year noted
Van Diemen's Land 1825
Western Australia 1829
South Australia 1836 (SA established without NSW Administrative processes)
New Zealand 1840
Victoria 1851
Queensland 1859
So, it can be sensible to check NSW resources :)
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks for your help.
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You assuming that this William ATKINSON is yours just by his name & age alone you will find hard to prove :-\
Death: (this is a church record)
William ATKINSON 61yrs d. 1849 MELBOURNE Reg:4710
Church of England, Parish St James, MELBOURNE Fiche:1078
Inquest:
William ATKINSON 1849 Ref:15
Place: Melbourne Watch House
Cause: Visitation Of God exhaustion
Occupation: Prisoner
Newspaper: (Inquest & other details)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4770731
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Many thanks, like you said, going to be hard to prove, but it is a good start. Does it say what he was in prison for?
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Did you bother to read the newspaper report?
It explains why he was taken to the gaol.
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And there is this Wm ATKINSON who died at Geelong on 8 May 1849.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12920441
Sydney Morning Herald 22 Aug 1850
PORT PHILLIP – INTESTATE ESTATES
William Atkinson, late of Native Creek, Geelong; money received, £9 11s. 6d, payments made, £4 19s. 2d. deposited in bank, £4 12s. 4d date of order to collect, February 7, 1850 labourer. Died May 8, 1849.
Buried at Geelong Eastern Cemetery
ATKINSON William
Service date 8 May 1849
Location EAS-UNK-X-825-X Section unknown Row X Grave X
Cando
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So sorry Merlin, did not realise there was a link. Thank you very much, very interesting.
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Many thanks, very interesting. Trying to find Williams parents and his exact birth date, but think it is 1788. Others Williams born much later. Our William had a son in 1823, Robert in England. William was dead when his son Robert got married in 1852.
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He was born in england and went to australia after 1823. Don't know the circumstances, why he went to australia.
I don't normally inhabit the Australia board, but as you stated that William was born in Newcastle upon Tyne I became interested.
I wondered what actual evidence you have of his move to Australia?
William Atkinson born 1788, Newcastle upon tyne, England.
You say he was born 1788 but don't know the names of his parents, so presumably haven't found a baptism? What then is your source for his date and place of birth?
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it is what came up in ancestry. it said look up on australian index for his death. ancestry also came up with a family tree, which william married jane langlands and also a marriage in 1806 to mary adamson and a branch of children with no mother, just william as father, which came up with robert atkinson. trying to find a birth for robert, as william is named as his father on roberts wedding to jane neil. can you help us with finding out if it was robert atchison or atkinson, that was living at catterick buildings, headlam street, byker, off shields road? As it gives this address on his son's birth cert, jeramiah atkinson. Thank you
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Agh, If I am understanding your post correctly, you are trying to match up your own validated research about William from his grandson (Jeremiah's) birth cert and from the marriage cert of Jeremiah's parents to 'information' you can find on submitted tree/s at Ancestry and with Ancestry's Australian death index.
May I gently express concern .... :)
The Ancestry index is actually a compiling of a number of already existing freely available indexes, so it is an index of an index.
Trying to validate information found on a submitted tree is fraught with flaws, even when there's sources cited. It is akin to putting the horse behind the cart and expecting the cart to move the horse.
May I ask a direct question :) Apart from what came up in ancestry, what gives you reason to believe your William:
a) left the UK (migrated/sentenced to transportation/went to sea/ joined the army and was sent overseas etc)
b) came to Australia (which of the six colonies / New Zealand / France/ Canada/ USA/ or anywhere overseas)
c) did not die in the UK
Cheers, JM
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Here’s an example of why I become concerned about submitted trees. This is “information” found on an online submitted tree.
William ATKINSON, birth about 1788, death 1849 in Victoria Australia.
Birth abt 1788
Baptism 9 April 1780 at Hebburn (near Morpeth) Northumberland, England (So that tree owner has it that their William was baptised BEFORE being born, wow !)
And apparently (according to that submitted tree I have found online) their William was TWICE married, and both wives were alive and having his children while the other was still alive. I think it more likely there were at least two men named William Atkinson :)
This is what they have for those two marriages :)
Marriage to Jane Langlands 15 Jan 1803 Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England gives children to William and Jane from 1802 to 1823,
Marriage to Mary Adamson, 3 November 1806, Hebron Parish Church, Morpeth, with two children of that marriage, one born 1809 and the other in 1816.
There's no mention of how that William got from England to Australia ::) on that submitted tree.
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks, very interesting. Trying to find Williams parents and his exact birth date, but think it is 1788. Others Williams born much later. Our William had a son in 1823, Robert in England. William was dead when his son Robert got married in 1852.
Hi Everyone,
Just sharing some info from an earlier, but still current thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=580391.msg4447169#msg4447169
Hi, We finally have a marriage certificate, which is for Robert and Jane, the surname of Robert on the marriage cert is Atchison and for Jane is Neal. Durham registry office did a search for us and this is what they came up with. This is the only marriage with a marriage of robert and Jane, in that area, so must be them. Their children are all down as Atkinson. Robert's father's name is William Atchison, a Pitman. Jane's father is John Neal, a mariner. Robert and Jane are residents at Byker Bar, when they got married. Any advice about the name change and how to proceed? Thanks
After a quick read of that thread, the mc referred to was for a marriage in May 1852. I did not see any mention on that thread to William Atkinson being noted on that mc as deceased, but I am not sure if that notation would have been a standard notation at that time.
Cheers, JM
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After a quick read of that thread, the mc referred to was for a marriage in May 1852. I did not see any mention on that thread to William Atkinson being noted on that mc as deceased, but I am not sure if that notation would have been a standard notation at that time.
It wouldn't. All depended on whether the information was asked for or offered ::)
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;D
There’s another submitted tree ….. this time
William was born in 1791 at St Giles, Durham, and married Durham 23 Jan 1808 to Ann Lawson.
And he was very busy in 1849. He married in Longford, Tasmania in 1849, and he died in Melbourne, Victoria 1849….
Anyways, William and Ann …. They had a son, Robert Atkinson, born 11 June 1808, Durham, Durham, England…. .
However, errrr ….. that tree continues to show that that deceased William (Ann’s husband, and Robert’s Dad) was in 1851 at Grayrigg, Westmorland, England, and in 1871 he was in St Giles, Durham.
Someone has made a comment on that submitted tree, noting:
The Wm ATKINSON who married in Tasmania was 35 years of age in 1849…….. Marriage …. Mary Ann MCHUGH aged 23 . Married 24 Sept 1849. 557/1849 Ref RGD37. The comment reads “How could Wm be back in England after he died in Victoria in 1849?” Cannot see any reply.
Another submitted tree has William's death as 1833 Burn House, Winlaton, but his marriage as 1849 in Longsford Tasmania. ::) ::) ::)
Cheers, JM
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William was dead when his son Robert got married in 1852.
Rayaco,
Please can you clarify - does the 1852 marriage certificate state categorically that William was deceased?
Or are you assuming he was dead by 1852 because an unsourced Ancestry tree says that he died in Australia in 1849?
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You assuming that this William ATKINSON is yours just by his name & age alone you will find hard to prove :-\
Death: (this is a church record)
William ATKINSON 61yrs d. 1849 MELBOURNE Reg:4710
Church of England, Parish St James, MELBOURNE Fiche:1078
Inquest:
William ATKINSON 1849 Ref:15
Place: Melbourne Watch House
Cause: Visitation Of God exhaustion
Occupation: Prisoner
Newspaper: (Inquest & other details)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4770731
:) :) :)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTC3-K35
Cheers, JM
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I note that one of the trees bases it's estimate of William's birth date of 1788 on the fact that someone called William Atkinson died in Australia in 1849 aged 61 ::)
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On mc it states DEC under Williams name, so we thought it meant deceased, as it says the same for jane father. Quite agree information does not seem to tally on ancestry, so we are trying to follow the treads to see if we could tie them in. Can't find any records of williams birth and who he married, or who robs mother is. have sent away to various places for copies of robs birth christening reg, but to no avail. Have asked and paid for some searches but still no joy. Have sent away to geaneology society to find out if they have any records regarding bmd of william. Waiting for a reply. there are too many williams and we need to find which one is which. Thank you once again for your interest and help.
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I seem to have missed the response to my questions :)
May I ask a direct question :) Apart from what came up in ancestry, what gives you reason to believe your William:
a) left the UK (migrated/sentenced to transportation/went to sea/ joined the army and was sent overseas etc)
b) came to Australia (which of the six colonies / New Zealand / France/ Canada/ USA/ or anywhere overseas)
c) did not die in the UK
I have not found any reason to suggest that your Jeremiah's paternal grandfather came to Australia.
Cheers, JM
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On mc it states DEC under Williams name, so we thought it meant deceased, as it says the same for jane father. Quite agree information does not seem to tally on ancestry, so we are trying to follow the treads to see if we could tie them in. Can't find any records of williams birth and who he married, or who robs mother is. have sent away to various places for copies of robs birth christening reg, but to no avail. Have asked and paid for some searches but still no joy. Have sent away to geaneology society to find out if they have any records regarding bmd of william. Waiting for a reply. there are too many williams and we need to find which one is which. Thank you once again for your interest and help.
Yes, DEC is the likely abbreviation used by clergy for "deceased". I understand that civil registrations of BMD events commenced in England in 1837. So, for events prior to that date, there were Church Records, and these Records were not governed by statute laws, but by Church Laws.
Cheers, JM
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i wish to add a comment here>
firstly I have done a little work on the Atkinson family of Tasmania during the penal settlement, and next I have done Atkinson research for the North Queensland branch, then I have done Atkinson research for a marryin to the Shergold family of the UK. There is one big point being overlooked here for the whole post...... which started right in the beginning...... to what do we owe the pleasure of the evidence for which the William comes from initially. Must we not prove his parental and christening structure before any answer can be given on any speculation of death in 1849..... and my next point is and always be..... anc does not have the entire population of the planet within its data banks and probably never will so any information from that forum is probably already shared amongst us on this post....... again I will make clear that when , in the olden days , of doing genealogical research in Australia.... THE MICROFISCHE for the deaths of Australia are very well indexed and probably not in total online anyway.... similiarly the International Genealogical Index portrayed on fs.o then duplicated on subscription sites was far from ever being close to the true values so there may be more Williams than this chatterer has seen listed on the post.
let us start with some clarification of from whence the William came as to prove a death in Australia we need a maiden name.
thankyou ....... for letting me come forth ....
:)
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There is one big point being overlooked here for the whole post...... which started right in the beginning...... to what do we owe the pleasure of the evidence for which the William comes from initially. Must we not prove his parental and christening structure before any answer can be given on any speculation of death in 1849.....
Not quite overlooked - I asked the question in reply #11 :)
William Atkinson born 1788, Newcastle upon tyne, England.
You say he was born 1788 but don't know the names of his parents, so presumably haven't found a baptism? What then is your source for his date and place of birth?
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William ATKINSON aged 37 was buried 18 May 1823 at Parramatta NSW Australia by the Rev Joseph KENYON.
NSW BDM Early Church Records : 5763/1823 V18235763 2B and 1364/1823 V18231364 14B
(Not at all unusual to find two or more references for the one event on the NSW BDM's Early Church Records, one is usually a transmission of the other).
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=733178.0
Well it seems that our OP's elusive William did not come to Australia.
Cheers, JM
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No he did not go to Australia, Thanks for your help.
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In the bishop Transcripts Durham diocese, under Tanfield Durham 1765-1844 on image page 40, there is a marriage of William Atkinson and Catherine ? ( can' t make the surname out ) on 4th December 1775, Do you think this could be Williams Parents?
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In the bishop Transcripts Durham diocese, under Tanfield Durham 1765-1844 on image page 40, there is a marriage of William Atkinson and Catherine ? ( can' t make the surname out ) on 4th December 1775, Do you think this could be Williams Parents?
This would be far better placed on the Durham board rather than Australia.
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sorry don't know how to do that? Since you changed things, I have had great difficulty finding things. All I can do is reply to emails, as I don't understand the system sorry.
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Please look at this link to your William Atkinson thread on the Durham board :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=733178.msg5792929#msg5792929