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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: wdytya on Monday 26 January 15 09:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi
On a marriage certificate the grooms fathers name is recorded with a surnane of Adams and I thought the first name was Simeon. I am not so sure now if it is Simeon having enlarged the writing. I am told there is a French or Channel Island family connection so it could be a French name? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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I think it is Simeon ... with the dot of the i to the right a bit above the m
:) mare
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Simeon looks good to me.
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I agree, it is Simeon
James
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Well, I'm going to go against the flow!
Edited: no, I'm not, but I'm not 100% sure it's Simeon, the e doesn't look right.
Woops, I was editing as Bumble Bee was posting, but I think we're both unsure on this one!
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Sorry, I'm going to disagree on Simeon - based on the "e" in deceased. :o Not having seen more of the image in order to compare an "r", I would hazard a guess at Simiron.
Snap alpinecottage ;D ;D
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What about "Simron" ?
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Many thanks for all the replies so far. Would it help if I posted an image of the complete marriage certificate or is there copyright rules that does not allow this?
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It looks to me like Simron :D
Have other 'i's' on the certificate got the dot above to the right of the 'i'....not bad for a Monday morning, but can you understand what I mean!!
Hephzibah
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What about Simrou looks like a u at the end.
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Hephzibah asked.............Have other 'i's' on the certificate got the dot above to the right of the 'i'....not bad for a Monday morning, but can you understand what I mean!!
Looking at the certificate it does look as if the dot is above and slightly to the right of the letter below.
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Of the suggestions so far of SIMIRON, SIMRON and SIMROU can anyone comfirm these are known names given to people as their first name?? Prior to his marriage he was in the Army and served sometime in India but in 1901 was back in Jersey. Family story is that his name Samuel Adams was not his true name. I have posted on the Armed Forces forum and have received some very helpful information about his army life.
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I have attached a cropped copy of the marriage record to see if it will help in comparing the writing in other sections of the document to that of the fathers name.
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Simeon - e is the same as the one in Samuel, though in most cases the e is written in the 'usual' form. Check the e in the two examples of 'Powell' where it has been written both ways.
If this is a certificate you obtained from the GRO you may want to purchase the same certificate from the local register office where the event was registered and where you can see the original handwriting and signatures.
The GRO certificates are copies of the original certificate and the whole cert is filled out by one person.
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Yes I still think it's Simeon with a capital E ... something not unusual, mixing capital and lower case letters, especially where word starts with a capital and I see another example in LaborEr.
My mum was very good at it :D
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Simeon - e is the same as the one in Samuel, though in most cases the e is written in the 'usual' form. Check the e in the two examples of 'Powell' where it has been written both ways.
Added to which, Simeon is actually a real name.
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Yes, the name is indeed Simeon, but it doesn't specifically mean the name is French. Simeon can also be a Jewish or Russian forename.
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Yes I still think it's Simeon with a capital E ... something not unusual, mixing capital and lower case letters, especially where word starts with a capital and I see another example in LaborEr.
...and also in the bride's signature "Powell"
I'll go with Simeon now! :D
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Yes I still think it's Simeon with a capital E ... something not unusual, mixing capital and lower case letters, especially where word starts with a capital and I see another example in LaborEr.
...and also in the bride's signature "Powell"
I'll go with Simeon now! :D
Looks like Simeon to me too.
sami
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A quick look at A*y shows a Samuel Adams getting married in 1904. One of the household members is Agnes Powell. Has this been discounted?
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This thread is following on from
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=200649.18
Regards
Malky
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Ruskie asked.....................If this is a certificate you obtained from the GRO you may want to purchase the same certificate from the local register office where the event was registered and where you can see the original handwriting and signatures.
I can say that the certificate is the original one from the registry office in Portsmouth in 1904 which would have been given to Samuel and Agnes and remains in the family.
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The reason for my question and suggestion is that the certificate you provided an image of appears to be filled in by the one person, including the signatures of bride, groom and witnesses.
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The reasoning behind Ruskie's suggestion that you obtain a copy of the ORIGINAL entry is illustrated by my attachment. The yellowing snippet is the marriage certificate issued to my grandparents, and is dated 19 September 1907, and has been in the family ever since. The white version is a copy of the parish register which has original signatures.
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Thank you for posting that BumbleB - it illustrates perfectly what I was trying to get across.
Wdytya, I think the general consensus is that the name is Simeon, but if you have doubts you may find a copy of the original will clarify things for you (or perhaps not if the writing is less legible than the example you have posted).
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Just spotted the flaw in our suggestion :o The person in question is the groom's father AND he is deceased :-[ :-X
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oops. :-[
However the father will still be named, and perhaps whoever filled out the form may have written the name more clearly. :-\ It is probably just confirmation that wdytya is looking for.
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Thanks Ruskie and BumbleB for your advice. Samuel Adams and Agnes Powelll were married at Portsmouth Registry Office in 1904, which is where the certificate I have would have been issued to them.
Please excuse my ignorance but are you saying that if I contact Portsmouth Registry office I can obtain a copy of the register entry which may have clearer handwriting.
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Now that's a very good question :) As the marriage took place in the Register Office, then I would assume that the two versions would be the same (GRO and Register Office) with the exception of original signatures for Samuel, Agnes and witnesses on the Register Office copy. Very sorry if I misled you :'(
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BumbleB might it be worth wdytya contacting Portsmouth RO, perhaps via email, and attaching a scan of their (original) copy to ask if the version the Register Office holds is different (or any clearer). :-\
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I hadn't thought of that one :)
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These days email makes it so easy that it might be worth a punt. :)
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Thanks both for you suggestions and comments. I will get in touch with Portsmouth Registry office to see if they can help.
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Please let us know how you get on. Even if the writing is the same, you could ask them what name they think is written, just to give you another opinion (of course don't mention what you think it might be as you don't want to sway their opinion ;)). :)
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I have now had a reply from the Portsmouth RO and they have said that the name is Simeon.
Back to square one as I cannot find a birth GRO reference or a parish record of baptism for Samuel Adams. His army record states he was born in 1875 in the parish of St Phillips, Bristol. Bristol record office say there is no records for a baptism for Samuel in the St Phillips parish records. Also no census records for Samuel or his parents apart from Samuel in the army based in Jersey in 1901. No marriage record for his parents Simeon and Mary Adams.
I think that the family story that Samuel changed his name to Adams is probably true.
Many thanks everyone who contributed my requests.
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Thanks for letting us know wdytya. :)
In your search for the birth or baptism, have you broadened the search at all? Sometimes year of birth on army records can be wrong, as can places of birth - perhaps they think that the place they lived as a child is where they were born when it may not have been. :-\