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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: linda25g on Sunday 25 January 15 18:12 GMT (UK)
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Hoping for some fresh eyes please
William Wilme bap 1635 in Warrington, father Thomas
William was Mayor of Chester and judging by his will fairly wealthy
he died 1688 in Chester and I have his will, in it he mentions a Katherine Jackson widdow, my late wifes aunt, also online I've found the below info
so I know he was married and had at least one child, but I can't find any record of his marriage, any mention of a wife, or any Wilme death/burial that could correspond to his wife
Nor can I find the marriage for his daughter as shown below, or a baptism/death for her (she wasn't mentioned in the will so I presume she predeceased her father)
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Doesn't help with a marriage, but the National Archive has several references to William Wilme
http://beta.discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ps=60&_hb=oth&_q=william+wilme
innholder, elected councilman in 1664, subsequently sheriff, alderman and mayor in 1680.
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thank you
we're planning a visit to Chester to try and view some of these, hoping something might mention a wife
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Is this his sister?
Mary Wilme
Marriage Date:6 Mar 1632
Marriage Place Warrington, Lancashire
Spouse:William Crosse
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Hi
I did wonder if that might be his Aunt as his will mentions a cousin Abigail and William Crosse had a daughter Abigail, I can't find a baptism for Mary to confirm it,
my William was son of Thomas but there were 2 Thomas's Wilmes baptised in 1615 and 1604, one son of John and one son of Thomas
finding the baptism of the above Mary could confirm which Thomas is my William's father
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update
found baptism 1615 of Marye Wilme Warrington daughter of Thomas, different day to the Thomas baptised 1815 son of John so wondering if I should presume the Thomas I'm looking for (father of William) is the Thomas baptised 1608 also of Thomas, and that Mary is his sister and her daughter Abigail is the cousin mentioned in the will, the only thing bothering me is would he refer to a second cousin as 'cousin'?
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I wonder if the family originates from Lancashire, rather than Cheshire.
I looked on the Chesire RO site and came up with some references to Wilme, none for William however.
http://archive.cheshire.gov.uk/calmview/Overview.aspx
There is a marriage for Elizabeth Wilme on FindMyPast this was in 14/01/1665, in Childwall, Lancashire, to William Price.
Jo
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Hi
Yes he was born in Warrington before at some point moving to Chester and Warrington would be Lancashire, so he could have married in Lancashire or Cheshire
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Have you seen the entries for Wilme on the Cheshire Parish Register Database?
http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
Please note that this doesn't cover all the parishes in Cheshire as yet.
Jo.
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Quote
There is a marriage for Elizabeth Wilme on FindMyPast this was in 14/01/1665, in Childwall, Lancashire, to William Price.
Childwall is in Liverpool.... the year is not certain - 1665 /66
from Lan-opc - records held at Liverpool Records Office
Marriage: 14 Jan 1665/6 All Saints, Childwall, Lancashire, England
William Price -
Elizabeth Wilme -
Register: Marriages 1653 - 1680 from a transcript held at the Liverpool Record Office, Page 18, Entry 3
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Thank you Jo they must be related :)
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Garstonite
that's really interesting as in William's will he mentions 2 nephews William and Thomas Price and there is a mention of Liverpool :) he did have a sister Elizabeth too
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Hello linda25g,
Is it possible to post the names of people mentioned in the Will of William Wilme? That might give us more clues to go on.
I found the marriage of John Cotgreave to Sarah Finton (Fitton possibly) in Chester, St John's, in 1665. There is no trace of a marriage to Elizabeth Wilme on that site. The only marriage between John Cotgreave and Elizabeth occurred in Knutsford in 1697 and she was Elizabeth Taylor. His residence is shown as "BARE" and hers as "NECH". I cannot find the full names of these places in the Glossary on that site.
It occurred to me that if this was his second marriage, it could have been her second marriage as well.
Jo.
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Hiya Jo www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb site
click on GLOSSARY
and scroll down - RIGHT DOWN
BARE = Barrow Great - Great Barrow
NECH = Newchurch
;)
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Residence, Bare is Great Barrow and Nech is Newchurch
I found a marriage for John Cotgreave to a Margaret Finton? 29 Sept 1665 which I thought might be a possible.
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Jo,
Was that Sarah Finton a typo I can only see Margret. :)
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I not sure where I'm going with this probably nowhere but it's niggling .....
John Cotgreave was only 5 years younger than William Wilme. Assuming that William was also married at about the same time as John it's possible that Elizabeth Wilme was born around the time of John Cotgreave's first marriage in 1665/1666.
As Elizabeth wasn't mentioned in William's will of 1688 we are assuming that she had died.
But did she, perhaps there was another reason for her not to be mentioned
I have found a burial record for a Margaret Cotgreave/Cotgrave widow of John, 8 June 1699 at St John.
So it's possible Elizabeth and John could have been married after this date and as Jo said it could be a second marriage for both of them ???
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Thank you to Garstonite and rolnora for the full place names of BARE and NECH.
Great Barrow is not far from Chester, c5 miles, so it was a distance for him to marry in Knutsford. That was the bride's parish, or near to it presumably. I don't know of a Newchurch in Cheshire.
Sorry, linda25g, I should have put Margret Finton. It wasn't a typo but a senior moment!
Jo.
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There is some details on the mayors and sherriffs of Chester on this site:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/ches/vol5/pt2/pp305-321
William Wilme was Mayor of Chester in 1679-80. He was a Sheriff of Chester in 1670-71. His co sheriff was Thomas Billington. The Mayor of Chester for that year was Thomas Wilcock.
John Cotgreave was Mayor of Chester in 1735-6. He was a Sheriff of Chester in 1720-21. The other Sheriff then was Roger Massey. The Mayor for that year was Thomas Edwards.
I wonder if the John Cotgreave who was Mayor in 1735 was the same person as married Elizabeth Wilme. I suspect he was the son of John Cotgreave, senior.
Have you obtained the Will for John Cotgreave to see who is mentioned in it?
Jo.
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This site is another source of information on the Mayors and Sheriffs of Chester:
http://lordmayorchester.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mayor-mayors1615.pdf
It differs from the information shown on the other site in that the Mayor for 1679-80 is shown as William Williams, Innholder.
In 1670-1, when William was a Sheriff, this site shows him as William Williams again.
John Cotgreave is shown for 1735-6 and his occupation was that of Brewer.
Jo.
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thanks for all the info :)
I've worked hard on the will and people mentioned are
nephews William and Thomas Price (possibly in Liverpoole and under 21 yrs)
Ann Elizabeth and Sarah daughters of my late brother John Wilme (I've found all of these)
Brother in law Peter Bennet husband of my late sister Martha (found these)
Brother in law Thomas Mason
John Wilme of Martinscroft
Katherine Jacson widdowe my late wife's aunt
Brother Mason wife and six children
nephew Wiilliam Mayfield
cousin Wilme, 2 sons 2 daughters and wife
sister Mary Mayfield and her daughters
mother Harrington
brother Samuel Harrington
cousin Abigail Burrowes 2 sons and 2 daughters (I think this is Abigail nee Crosse child of William's aunt and her husband named as either Peter or William Crosse on records)
I believe William to be son of Thomas baptised 1608 in St Elphin's Warrington
re the mention of Farringtons I'm working on that being his mother in law and brother in law, in a will of Charles Farrington dies 1666 he mentions leaving an inn called the White Bull in Chester now in the holding of William Wilme to my son Samuel
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this is what I found on John Cotgreave
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Hi Linda,
Do you have the marriage of John Wilmes to Sarah Farrington at St Oswalds Chester 2 Feb 1675?
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There is a mention of John Wilme yeoman of Martinscroft Lancs
Lease and Release records dated 1725.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01enm/
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rolnora
yes I have that marriage, wondering if William married one of Sarah's sisters, there is an Elizabeth I can't find a marriage for but there is also a Peter Stringer mentioned as son in law in Charles Farrington's will I can't find a marriage for (who could have benn married to said Elizabeth)
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just found the will of Ann, wife of Charles Farrington died 1696, she mentions daughter Elizabeth farrington so Elizabeth wasn't married
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What do you think Linda?
Is this a possible contender for Abigail Cross ???
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH8X-W4X
Residence for both of them is St Oswald, Chester.
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thank you
that does look as if it is the missing link for Abigail :)
I'll try and find their children now as 2 sons and 2 daughters were mentioned
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There are some baptisms on Ancestry that may fit the bill but as they only show father's name it's difficult to be certain.
I had a quick look at the will of Ann Farrington this morning and noticed that she mentions a grandaughter Mary Bolland, did you spot that?
Arthur Bolland married Sarah Wilme 1688 Holy Trinity Chester and they had a daughter Mary baptised 5 July 1691 St Bridget, Chester
Then there is a Sarah Bolland claiming the estate of Elizabeth Wilme spinster who died intestate think it was in 1696
So could this Sarah be Elizabeth's sister and would they be the children of John Wilme?
Sorry Linda, I seem to be going all round the houses and finding everything but the one thing your searching for, namely William Wilme
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rolnora
you've been really helpful :)
The Sarah you just mentioned is actually Sarah Farrington wife of John Wilme who married Arthur Bolland after John dies and Mary was their daughter
the 2 clues I have to William's marriage seem to be mention of 'mother Farrington' and brother 'Samuel Farrington' in his will (I'm sure this must be his mother in law and brother in law). He also mentions a Katherine Jackson widdowe, his late wife's aunt, what I've turned up so far is Katherine Jackson may be the widow of that name buried 1690, and the marriage may be John Jackson & Katherine Barnes (?) 1655
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Looking at the origins of William Wilme, the will of Charles Farrington mentions both a John Wilme of Martinscroft and William Wilme. John Wilme married Charles Farrington's daughter, Sarah.
Martinscroft is in Warrington.
A quick search reveals that a John Wilme was baptised in 1643 in Warrington to father, Thomas Wilme, and William Wilme to the same father in 1636.
Given that they both appear in the same will and that there career path was markedly similar, it seems highly likely that they were brothers and Thomas was their father. Unfortunately, there were two Thomas's born in Warrington, in the early 1600s, so I'm not sure about how to take this line back further. Unless thee is another will somewhere.