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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Patrizia on Friday 23 January 15 22:11 GMT (UK)
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I am having difficulty finding the birth of George Robson. This is what I know and posted the following on the Lanarkshire page. I asked whether there was in 1901 a prison, hospital or asylum in Prince Edward Street Glasgow the location/place named on the death certificate as the place of death and the person signing the cert wrote the word inmate on the death certificate. It appears there wasn't but the term inmate I am told can be someone living in the same tenament building.
I followed with.
Thank you for explaining, that would make sense as it is possible the same person gave the details that were entered on the death certificate and would explain perhaps why some information is inaccurate or has been transcribed incorrectly. The parentage names are correct including the mothers maiden name, Margaret Potts and father William Weiland Robson jnr (corrected now I previously wrote George), however the age of the deceased George Robson is incorrect it states age 35yrs. The previous Scotland census's up to but not including 1901 the year he died just states England and his birth year as 1856 and on one I believe 1864. On death cert in Scotland it states single when in fact he did marry, but may have parted from wife Ellen Boyle prior to his death. He married Ellen in 1879 age 20 yrs on Scottish marriage certificate which would give his birth as 1859. George Robson left Durham and went to Glasgow where he married Ellen Boyle and had a daughter Mary Ann in 1880 and a son George in 1886 both born in Glasgow. I presume he was born in Durham as his parents were but I have not found this George Robsons birth. George Robson married Ellen from Ireland in Glasgow in 1879.
Can anyone throw any light on this please as I understand the surname Robson is very common in Durham...
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The parentage names are correct including the mothers maiden name. George Weiland Robson jnr and Margaret Potts, however the age of the deceased George Robson is incorrect
Your heading on this post states William Weiland Robson as father, yet in the above quote you say George Weiland Robson. Which is correct?
Link to Lanarkshire forum post:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=710941
A William Wealand Robson died and has probate entry in Sunderland in 1882.
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Sorry yes you are correct I did write George Weiland Robson which should have read William Weiland Robson Jnr I do have his details such as probate and two wives and divorce,
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Have you got him and his family on the 1861 and 1871 censuses?
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The marriage of his 'parents' was after your claimed birth for him?
Marriages June quarter 1869
Margaret Potts Sunderland
William Wealands Robson Sunderland
So born as a Potts?
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The marriage of his 'parents' was after your claimed birth for him?
Marriages June quarter 1869
Margaret Potts Sunderland
William Wealands Robson Sunderland
So born as a Potts?
William Wealands Robson appears to have been married before
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFJ9-FP1
He appears as married in the 1851 census in Sunderland (HO 107 / 2398 / 255 / 12)
and unmarried in the 1861 census (RG 9 / 3737 / 50 / 26)
He is an attorney.
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Yes he was an attorney. However he was not a good husband if you read his first wifes Petion for divorce. Sarah Hannah Moore b 17 th May 1824 in Monkwearmouth, Durham who Willliam Weiland Robson married 16th Oct 1948. Sarah petitoned divorce proceedings against him as from 1850 to Feb 1854 William Weiland Robson snr committed cruelty against her, stabbed her in the head with pen knife, held a razor and threatened to cut her throat, beatings, threw jug and knife at her, was away for nights and came home intoxicated, they co habited until Feb 1854. It appeared that Sarah was a woman of means as she had £1,000 of her own money prior to marriage. They had 2 children one born 2 Jan 1850 and another who died soon after birth I believe. It appears that Sarah left the matrimonial home after William Weiland Robson had been absent from the home for 2 years. Sarah cited three woman for his adultury including Margaret Potts, (who in reponse William also named). So in answer to an earlier question although Margaret Potts and William were not married until 1869 after his divorce from Sarah 7th Feb 1868, they were certainly involved together and had children including George Robson who named both William Weiland Robson and Margaret Potts as his parents on his marriage certificate in 1879.
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He may have named both parents on his marriage certificate, but he could still just have been registered under his mother's name.
Have you looked for him under 'Potts'?
Have you found him on the censuses?
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Is this Margaret Potts in 1861, if so, where is George?
No head of household specified, living at 22 East Cross Street,
Margaret Potts
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Durham
Registration district: Sunderland Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
Margaret Robson 2 daughter
Margaret Potts 32 House Servant
Elizabeth Potts 12 visitor
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So in answer to an earlier question although Margaret Potts and William were not married until 1869 after his divorce from Sarah 7th Feb 1868, they were certainly involved together and had children including George Robson who named both William Weiland Robson and Margaret Potts as his parents on his marriage certificate in 1879.
Patrizia, it would have been most useful and time-saving to us if you had given this information at the outset.
Please can you say on which censuses you have found George, and what is his age on each of them?
Have you tracked Margaret Potts' family to see if George is with any of them in 1861 or 1871?
There are a good many births of various George Robsons showing on freeBMD in County Durham - how many of these have you checked to see if they are 'your' George? ( we are, of course, making the assumption that he was born in County Durham which might not be the case).
I see that William and Margaret had two daughters living with them in 1871. Under what surnames were their births registered?
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For that 1861 census that I posted, could Elizabeth be the daughter of Margaret Potts, as I was just thinking sister, but daughter more likely?
What is Margaret Potts' father's name from the marriage certificate?
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Is this Margaret Potts with her Mother and daughter or niece?
1851 census
Margaret Potts
Age 20 Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Registration district: Sunderland Sub-registration district: West Sunderland
Margaret Potts 55 mother widowed
William Potts 30 unmarried, pilot
xxx Margaret Potts 20 unmarried no occupation specified
Jane Potts 18
Caroline Potts 16
Elizabeth Potts 19 OR 10
xxx Elizabeth Potts 1 4 Mo grndau
Added:
Think this is wrong, as can see this family in 1861 with Elizabeth aged 12 still with them.
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Same family in 1841
William Patts
Age: 45 Where born: Durham, England
Civil Parish: Sunderland Hundred: Sunderland Town County/Island: Durham
Registration district: Sunderland Sub-registration district: West Sunderland
William Patts 45 pilot
Margaret Patts 45
William Patts 20 pilot
Thomas Patts 20 pilot
Mary Patts 15
Margaret Patts 15
Jane Patts 10
Caroline Patts 5
Elizabeth Patts 5
Added:
This family would be wrong if that 1851 family is wrong.
Need the name of the father from the marriage certificate.
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Hi patrizia
I have William Wealands Robson jnr on a distant branch of my family tree. I am related through his mother, Mary Shield.
I have done a bit of research on him. I was not aware that he had a son George.
I have found 2 sons from his first wife; the first son, Richard Preston Robson, who died shortly after birth and the second son Samuel Moore Robson and two daughters from Margaret Potts (prior to the 1869 marriage), Margaret and Annie.
Do you have a copy of George's 1879 marriage cert where he names WWR as his father and Margaret Potts as his mother? It must be a scottish marriage cert if it names a mother?
lilyj
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Do you have a copy of George's 1879 marriage cert where he names WWR as his father and Margaret Potts as his mother? It must be a scottish marriage cert if it names a mother?
Going by the original posting patrizia has George's Scottish marriage certificate and death certificate, both of which mention WWR and Margaret as his parents.
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Thank you Jan B
I have just got the image from Scotlands people and seen it for myself. It has Margaret Potts Robson as deceased I think.
She wasn't as she is on the 1881 census.
Been searching for a George Potts or George Robson birth in Durham but too many Robsons and not enough Potts.
I have a record for "Margaret Potts or Robson" for 1859 who was born in November and christened in December. I think the Potts family was Catholic.
lilyj
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Sorry I got the year wrong for Margaret Potts or Robson: it was 1858
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George Robson Stat Deaths 644/130078
1901 Deaths in the District of Tradeston in the Burgh of Glasgow
Entry No 78 1901 M age 35 years (this I believe to be incorrect age)
George Robson Feb 21st 1901
Occupation Lamp lighter
Prince Edward Street Glasgow
Single (this status maybe correct if parted from wife but was married see below)
Name of father surname proffession of father - William Robson Solicitor (deceased)
Cause of death
Signature and Qualification of informant and resident if out of the house in which death occurred
Elizabeth Allison Inmate present (the reason for my original enquiry)
1879 Marriages
Robson George - Boyle Ellen Stat Marriages 644/10 0211
1879 Marriages District of Anderston Burgh of Glasgow
19th Sept 1879 St Johns Epispal Church of Glasgow (difficult for me to read)
George Robson age 20,
25 Clyde Street St Anderston Glasgow
Father William Weiland Robson writer
Mother Margaret Robson Nie M Potts (deceased)
Ellen Boyle x unable to sign just a mark sewing machine worker
30 Clyde Street Anderston, Glasgow
Father John Boyle Farmer
Mother Catherine Boyle nie Ferguson (deceased)
I have taken from both the marriage and death certificate that they are the same person George Robson. For clarification I am seeking George Robsons birth registration to clarify parentage, date of birth and age at death. This is what I am having difficulty with finding. Thank you for help so far it is appreciated.
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George Robson Stat Deaths 644/130078
1901 Deaths in the District of Tradeston in the Burgh of Glasgow
Entry No 78 1901 M age 35 years (this I believe to be incorrect age)
George Robson Feb 21st 1901
Occupation Lamp lighter
Prince Edward Street Glasgow
Single (this status maybe correct if parted from wife but was married see below)
Name of father surname proffession of father - William Robson Solicitor (deceased)
Cause of death
Signature and Qualification of informant and resident if out of the house in which death occurred
Elizabeth Allison Inmate present (the reason for my original enquiry)
1879 Marriages
Robson George - Boyle Ellen Stat Marriages 644/10 0211
1879 Marriages District of Anderston Burgh of Glasgow
19th Sept 1879 St Johns Epispal Church of Glasgow (difficult for me to read)
George Robson age 20,
25 Clyde Street St Anderston Glasgow
Father William Weiland Robson writer
Mother Margaret Robson Nie M Potts (deceased)
Ellen Boyle x unable to sign just a mark sewing machine worker
30 Clyde Street Anderston, Glasgow
Father John Boyle Farmer
Mother Catherine Boyle nie Ferguson (deceased)
I have taken from both the marriage and death certificate that they are the same person George Robson. For clarification I am seeking George Robsons birth registration to clarify parentage, date of birth and age at death. This is what I am having difficulty with finding. Thank you for help so far it is appreciated.
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Sorry was having difficulty posting has now posted twice, sorry.
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Patrizia, please could you take a look at and answer some of the questions chempat and I have asked you - in replies #9 and #10 in particular; it is really difficult to try and help if you don't answer the questions we ask :)
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Was typing this as you were posting, so is this a fair summary of ages, and could you supply the other bits of information asked if known, thanks
George Robson death certificate age 35 in 1901 so born 1865/1866
Marriage in 1879 age 20 so born 1859/1858
Scottish census 1881 age 25 so born 1855/1856 (is this the correct one?) Wife is 23. I cannot see the image to verify.
Scottish census 1891 age 27 so born 1863/1864 (is this the correct one?) Wife is 30. I cannot see the image to verify
Have you found him in Scotland or England in 1871 (and possibly 1861)?
Have I found any of the correct information on Margaret Potts?
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In 1871 we have William and Margaret married and living with daughters Margaret and Annie, No George, living in North Bishop Wearmouth, Durham
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William W Robson 46
Margaret Robson 43
Margaret Robson 12 born 1858/1859
Anne Robson 9 born 1861/1862
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The first info I found was the 1881 census nothing prior to this for George Robson B abt 1856 b England. Occupation Machine Keeper
Marriage to Ellen b Ireland 1858
living at 14 School wynd Glasgow Barony
One child Mary Ann Robson b 1880 age 1yr b Glasgow
1891 Census George Robson b 1864? b England
Wife Ellen B Ireland
George Robson age 4 yrs
Mary Ann Robson age 10 yrs
living at 38 Wyndford Street Glasgow
1901 census could find nothing on Scotland may need to look again
1901 death 21st Feb 1901 at Prince Edward Street Glasgow Occupation Lamplighter age 35 should be 42 but if age taken from last found census 1891 which said his birth was 1864 then they may think 37 but wrote 35 yrs age at death. This did confrm correct parents but said single which could indicate why I could not find Ellen maybe died earleir than I thought or perhaps returned to family in Ireland. I think George Robson b 1886 my grandfather must be around somewhere maybe lodging as by 1901 he would be 15 yrs and working. He joined the Army in 1908.
So in answer to questions sorry I have as yet not found any earlier census details other than what shown here. I have looked more on the England ones for George Robson B 1856/9 than on Scotland.
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There is a George Robson (son of George) working as a van boy in 1901, living at South Coburg Street, but born in 1885 (though he could have pretended to be older through necessity).
Have you his address or other information from when he enrolled?
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George Roberson (Robson) enlisted in the regular army 1908 at Clydebank, Scotland
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Hi Patrizia :) thank you for the census information.
We are still hoping you will answer some of the other questions we asked earlier.
So to recap these:
From the marriage certificate of 1869, what was the name of Margaret Potts' father?
Have you traced Margaret Potts' family in the 1861 and 1871 censuses to see if George is possibly living with them under the surname Potts?
Under what surname were the two daughters of William Robson and Margaret Potts registered?
Have you looked for George's birth under the surname Potts? You say you cannot find his birth, but how many of the births under the name George Robson or George Potts in Sunderland have you actually checked to find out the names of the parents?
You say you are concentrating on births 1856-9, but the variety of ages given on the censuses suggest that you might have to spread the net a little wider.
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Please appreciate I have only in the past few weeks known that my grandfathers name was not Robertson but Robson therefore tracing his family on both sides has not progressed that far. However I am able to answer some if not all of your questions.
Margarets Potts father was William Potts 1789 1851. Mother Margaret (Peggy) Havelock 1789 1875
The names of the two daughters in the 1871 census were Margaret born 1859 Sunderland and Anne born 1862 Bishop Wearmouth. These were the two children of William W Robson b 1825 Monkwearworth and Margaret Potts b 1828 Sunderland. George Robson does not appear on this census but if born 1856 then he would be 15 and could have left home and be anywhere even in Glasgow Scotland where he eventually married.
I have searched for a birth for George Robson under the name of Potts in Durham as well as Robson with mother Margaret but only what I can find on Ancestry as the parent/s names appear in a search.
Sorry that is as far as I am up to at present as I say early days for me on this line but I was hoping to fill each piece in before moving on but maybe that is not going to be easy or straightforward so I may have to move forward with what I have and come back to this page now and again to see if anything is added. In the mean time thank you so much for your help.