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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: hookleg on Friday 23 January 15 13:06 GMT (UK)
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Is anyone able to give a definitive answer about the name. It is split about 50/50 on the records I have looked at. These include census, Birth, marriage and death, plus electoral rolls, and I seem to be the only one who has decided on Frener on ancestry trees. I think it is a matter of deciding on handwriting on the records unless, perhaps, anyone has records of graves at Bedfield but I have looked at gravestonephotos.com and Bedfield graves are not yet recorded.
George Bolton (abt 1825-65) married Susannah Frener/Freuer 1847. Lived Bedfield
Daughter named Sarah Frener/Freuer Bolton (1853-91) Born Bedfield, married George William Wright 1872. Lived at Stonham Parva.
Grand daughter Rebie Frener/Freuer Wright (1884-1940) born Stonham Parva died Brentford Middlesex.
I have info on some other family members. Its the name I would like to clarify with evidence if possible. As I say the split is about 50/50 on records on Ancestry.Thanks
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have you looked at original records of just transcripts?
My advise would be to look at original records and make your own decision!
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Early records seem to suggest Frener, but hand written. Where it has been used as a middle name it is often just "F" or not there.
1911 Census has Frener, but could be interpreted either way from the handwriting.
One Ancestry transcriber has put it as Freuer and the much later London electoral registers 1929, 30, 32, 37, which are all typeface, have Freuer. So still none the wiser!
Ideally need a headstone with the family name on, but haven't found parents of Susannah. Susannah was married and would have been buried as a 'Bolton'. Probably the answer, if it exists, will be found in a village churchyard in or near Bedfield.
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1911 was filled in by the householder, so if they wrote Frener then that seems most likely.
I would not know how to pronounce Freuer, so would anticipate all sorts of "spellings" if that was the name, back in the days when few were literate and spelling did not count for much.
Not sure what you mean about it just being "F" in the case of a middle name. If records just say F, then surely you do not know if stands for Frener (or Freuer ) rather than any other name beginning with F!
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Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1847
Hoxne
Ref 13 1133
Susannah Frener / George Bolton
Have you got this marriage cert to see how her name is spelt and how she signs it?
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The hand written index says Susannah Frener, Hoxne Vol XIII P433. but as it was 1847 I wonder if it is just a reference to the parish record and it is fairly likely that in a rural community of that date one or other of the couple would have signed by putting their mark.
With regard to 'F':-
1891 England Census Rebbie 'T' Wright But a transcription error for 'F'
1901 England Census Rebbie Wright
1911 England Census Rebbie Frener Wright
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 Rebbie F Wright
England & Wales, Free BMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 Rebbie Frener Wright
London Electoral registers all have Rebbie Freuer Wright
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The reference is from the gro index of marriages (wherever they were held, parish, non conformist etc)
The things you are referring to , generally, are transcripts.
That is why I suggested you look at originals! Like the marriage cert. Yes, she may have only "made a mark", but you wont know till you look at it. And you can see how the vicar AT THE TIME spelt the name (OK only his idea of how it was spelt, but he would have heard the name said, and Frener and Freuer would sound very different). Much better than either the index (relying on the indexers reading of the vicars writing) or Ancestryes index of that index, relyoing on their transcribers interperatation of the gro indexers interperatation of the vicars writing!
Likewise Rebbies birth cert - how is her name written on her birth cert? (Not a census, or an index or transcript), but how did the Registrar write it AT THE TIME, when her mum or Dad had just said it?
Do you see what I mean?
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Bedfield burials are on FindMyPast going back to 1700's and there are 27 as Fruer, Freuer, Frere, Frewer and only 2 as Frener!
Susannah's baptism is on familysearch:
Susanna Fruer bp.13/8/1815 Bedfield, dau. of William and Sarah
plus
Alfred Fruer bp.7/3/1813 Bedfield, ditto
William Freuer bc.1765 bur.12/1/1837 Bedfield
Sarah Freuer bc.1780 bur.17/3/1846 Bedfield
Just enlarged original page of 1841 census (transcribed as feener) and I would say it is FREUER.
Would definfitely seem like Fruer/variants rather than Frener to me.
Annette
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Susanna's brother Alfred married as Frewer, appears on 1851 census as Freuer, died in 1886 as Frewer.
The sounds between the 2 names Frener and and Freuer are really quite different and all 3 events shown above for Alfred suggest it is Freuer.
Annette
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Thanks for that Annette. Marriage of Annette says Frener as in alphabetical order, but I agree with you it must be Freuer!
I have now, with your help looked at Frewers in Bedfield and find Lydia Frewer marrying James Bolton and having 6 children. There seems to be a strong connection between the two families.
I think that the family must have originally been called Frewer, but as is often the case from that period of history when many souls were illiterate, the name on records was spelled phonetically by the clergyman. The name then gets passed as a middle name honouring the maternal side of the family. I have many cases of this on different branches of my tree. I think the mystery is now solved. Thanks so much.
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That'll be our lot, it's FRUER but often spelled as FREWER.
You will find the former Congregational chapel in Framlingham is now called Fruer House, Samual Fruer was an architect in the town and the patron of the church was John Fruer.
SM ...
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Annette was quite right.
There were quite a few links with the Fruer et al & the Bolton families.
Some of them went off with the Bolton family and settled in Eramosa & Guelph, Ontario, Canada whilst another lot went to Klamoth Falls, Oregon, United States.
Samuel Bolton married Susanne FREUER at St Nicholas, Bedfield on the 30th November 1847
The marriage was witnessed by William Lord Basford Freuer (brother of the bride) & Emma Bolton (sister of the groom).
This Samuel Bolton was a son of Lewis & Elizabeth Bolton (nee Chenery).
William Chenery was Elizabeth's father, her mother MAY have been Elizabeth Spurling
Susanne was the daughter of William & Sarah Freuer (Chenery)
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Interesting thread as i have ties to the Bedfield Freures. My 5 th great grandfather was a Benjamin Freure (father John Fruar) who married Elizabeth Pretty or Pritty 1767 Bedfield.. Their son Samuel b 1772, my 4th g grandfather spelled his name Frewer.. He married Sarah or Susannah Tuttle ( Turthill) and their child Samuel Freure b. 1805 married Sarah Oxborrow in 1834 Fressingfield..
My family, Samuel, 1772, 3rd g grandfather Samuel 1805 and siblings Sarah Jane Frewer b. 1807, Marianne Frewer b. 1811 William Freure b. 1808 and Mary Freure b. 1827-1830 and Samuels wife Sarah Oxborrow came to Ontario Canada..via New York in 1834.. So the name seems interchangeable .. But my Canadian Freures from Wellandport and St. Catherines Ontario were always spelled FREURE..
Cheers,
Margaret from London, Ontario Canada..
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Our Framlingham Fruers link to the Bedfield families. We tended to use the Fruer spelling in later years, however as clerks wrote down what they thought they heard, going back a couple of hundred years and we have both Fruer and Frewer being used.
At least my late father in law, my husband, son and grandson use the Fruer version :-)
SM ...
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Margaret, I am really pleased if this thread has helped. I started it, as it involved a family in the smaller twigs of my tree and SM has been able to help me expand my tree a little in that direction.
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Did not Rebbie Freuer Wright's mother (Sarah Freuer Bolton) die in 1891 and that her father remarried in 1894?
Elizabeth Ray married William Lord Basford Freuer, Worlingworth 1838.
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Yes Rebbie's mother Sarah did die in 1891 and father George William married Florence Sophia Burt (daughter of Harry Cottingham Burt and Elizabeth Debenham) on 5 Sep 1894 at Barking Church. Elizabeth, a widow ran a private school for young ladies and small boys in Needham Market (for the 'crème de la creme' of the local area). The service was conducted by the Rev. S Maud. vicar of Hockley, Essex, assisted by the Rev. L. Staniforth, of Needham Market.
I'm distantly related to Florence and her 5 children with William rather than Sarah and her 6 children. If you would like to PM me I would love to be able to put more of the other family on my tree. Regards