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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Trees on Friday 16 January 15 14:04 GMT (UK)
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that the use of biblical names for Christian children in the late 18th and early 19th century indicated the denomindtion of the parents. Can anyone confirm this and remind me of the significence. I have a family with children baptised with these names between 1789 and 1811.
Manoah,Julia, Tabitha, Amil, Johannah, Delilah, Ephraim, Maacah,Timna, and Stacey all but three being Biblical
??? Trees
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Never heard that it indicated the actual denomination of the family. Saints' names would imply R.C., possibly, and "Virtue" names (Patience, Chastity, Endeavour, etc) possibly Quaker, but I'd assumed that use of Old Testament names merely indicated Jewish or, more likely, Christian, (possibly non-Conformist?) rather than any particular sect or chapel, etc. It's an interesting thought - It'd be nice to know if there is any logic behind it.?
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I have a couple in my tree who had three consecutive daughters who they called Jemima, Keziah and Keren- Happuch (in that order), after the three daughters of Job. In all, the couple had nine children and names of all except the first (George) could be found in the bible. But most were quite common christian names e.g. John, Mary and James.
The couples own christian names were Joseph and Mary!
The first five (George, John, Joshua, Jemima and Keziah) were baptised in C of E churches and the last four (K-H, Rebecca, James, Mary) were baptised in a Unitarian Church.
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In my family there are 5 generations of Abraham.
But the family were all good C of E stock, and included some priests.
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I have followed several Huguenot families mainly in Devon. Before the influx of Huguenots sons were normally baptised using "Norman French" names of kings e.g. William, Richard, John, Richard and Henry but whilst those names continued in use, Huguenot families seem to favour "strong" biblical names such as Sampson/Samson, Nathaniel the alternative name of Bartholomew, Francis Frances, Argules/Argulus the alternative name for Hercules, Job and Keziah, James and Joseph.
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families. This is a subject close to my heart as I have a biblical name. :) My father was brought up as a Methodist, his grandfather was a local preacher. However, I don't think that had any influence on their choice of my name. One of my 3 x great grandmothers had the same name but I don't know if this was at all relevant or whether her family was non conformist.
Don't you wish you'd asked all the questions when you had the chance to get some answers? ;)
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Having traced several generations of Ag Labs living in very small villages who could not read (as far as I know), I had always assumed they heard these lovely names when the vicar read from the Bible in church every Sunday. I imagined the choice of name was either a common family name (& we've all got plenty of those!), a name used maybe by the wealthy 'Lord of the Manor's' family, or from the Bible. After all they are beautiful names :)
It would be interesting to know if belonging to a particular sect did influence names.
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http://www.babynames.org.uk/biblical-baby-names.htm
This link may be of interest as it mentions different denominations and their preference for names. :)
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Many thanks for your interest. These names did not persist in later generations or appear before this one family chose them. However Maachah did marry a man who was Parish Clerk for many years and one of his sons eventually became an Evangelic preacher at 63 still within the Cof Eand in turn his daughter married a Church of England priest. Most interesting discussion
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families.
Pretty sure I've read that to and it matches with my own ancestors. I have a family with the names Elijah, Sarah, Moses and Amos who were Methodists.
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families.
Pretty sure I've read that to and it matches with my own ancestors. I have a family with the names Elijah, Sarah, Moses and Amos who were Methodists.
Yep me too, I'm sure I've read that also and it certainly follows in my one line. They were Methodists and for the next 4 generations the names noah, jeremiah, benjamin, sarah, Rebecca and isaac (amongst others) were used consistently.
(This naming pattern only actually stopped in the 1940s) x
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Many moons ago I did a study of Evangelicals with in the Cof E so this is really interesting the family I mention have a long association with the Cof E but it looks like they were definitely on the evangelical side of the Church. It was known that the Wesleys did not intend to break from the Anglican Church and neither did David Jones in South Wales. Jones died an Anglican but not before opening his own Chapel in Pencoed he built it so the hundreds who came to his village to hear him preach monthly had a place in which to discuss and prepare properly for the communion service. Jones and three other clergy were under the patronage of Lady Dunraven and worked with her friend worked with the Countess of Huntingdon regularly.They covered for each others absence from their Churches on such occasions.
I know "my " family went on to include at least one ordained minister two of the sons used Maachah as part of a daughter's name in honour of their mother but after that the names don't appear again. Tabatha's first daughter was given the puritan name "Comfort" and her last was Lydia (Paul's first convert was named Lydia)
So it looks like I have found an example of an Evangelic family on my tree too late to help that long ago study. Hey ho its not too late to add to my interest.
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families. This is a subject close to my heart as I have a biblical name. :)
And lo, the prophet Roobarb spake thusly..... ;)
As a general rule for Christians - Catholics choose saints' names, virtuous names are used by strict nonconformists, Old Testament names could be CofE or nonconformist ....but every rule has its exceptions!
Rather off-topic, but I like the Spanish use of Maria-Jesus for girls and Jesus-Maria for boys. I have not come across a British child named Jesus.
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Am still looking for any Hosetta's .
I gather that this is a biblical/ Old Testament name but have no idea how and why my grtgrtgranmother chose it for her (illegitimate) daughter in the 1860's.
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The one that still gets me was finding on census one poor child called "Mahershalalhashbaz"... Use a Biblical name if you will, but why THAT one?
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The man in my profile picture was called Jabez, and from what I can gather his family was Methodist.
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Coincidenally, the husband of my Hosetta was called Jabez.
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families. This is a subject close to my heart as I have a biblical name. :)
Rather off-topic, but I like the Spanish use of Maria-Jesus for girls and Jesus-Maria for boys. I have not come across a British child named Jesus.
I did come across a Jesus Christ in the UK phone book some years back. If only people knew where all these names really came from!
First of all the Ancient Egyptians believed that each new King was also the resurrected Son of God whom they called IWSA or IUSA (according to Massey). This goes back many thousands of years. It was pronounced something like IOSA and that is still the spelling for Jesus in Scots Gaelic. The Greeks changed it to IESOUS and you know the rest. The stories about the Egyptian Jesus were very much the same except that the miracles were mostly to do with Heavenly events and not on Earth. The word KHRST is also Egyptian and it appears on the sides of most coffins containing mummies which have been anointed with embalming fluids and natron. It really means 'Buried' according to the Egyptian-English dictionaries. As often happens the meaning changed over the centuries.
Rebecca is interesting as it was changed to Beketaten during the Aten years at the end of the 18th Dynasty, but no doubt changed back when Akhenaten/Moses was deposed by the Establishment in Uasar along with the priests of Ymn. (Amen).
Abraham comes from the throne name of the Pharaoh Sheshi, which was Ma'ibre - syllables reversed in speech therefore 'Ibram'.
David was the name of 5 Kings of Egypt called Dayhut - in hieroglyphs DHWT, then TWT.
Solomon comes from the names of 4 Kings of Egypt called Ymn Htp. Htp means Peace or Rest in Egyptian, but it was SALIM to the Hebrews who Ruled Egypt from about the 14th Dynasty to the end of the 19th Dynasty at least. They were known as Salim Amen then Salomon. Ymn Htp III matches just about everything we are told about Solomon in 1 Kings chapters 6 and 7 - down to the measurements of his Palace in Luxor. (E.g. the 80,000 stone quarry men, the 317 ladies in waiting, the 12 admin districts, the Chariotry, the Temple - also in Luxor, the picturesque glazed tiles - as described in the Koran etc. etc.).
Joshua has to come from the Pharaohs called Djoser. Joshua the Bethshemite in 1 Samuel 6 could only be a King of Egypt to own a field in Egypt - Jeremiah confirms that Bethshemesh was Heliopolis or On, so the great stone of Abel would have been his Pyramid. The later Joshua son of Nun has to have been Horemheb MeriYmn (Miriam) whose throne name was Djoser HEPREW Setepenre. Nun or Nnu or Noah was the God of the Heavenly Deep.
Joseph was the Chief Minister and father in law of Ymn Htp III (Solomon) and we know this because of his ushabti's which use the same description as given in the bible and because he was indeed Head of Chariotry and entombed with a Chariot.
Just about every other patriarch can be found in the names of Egyptian Kings, e.g. Isaac, Peleg, Salitis, Thara etc.
The first two chapters of Luke appear in 4 scenes and the story told in hieroglyphs in temples at Luxor and Denderah dating back 3,500 years. Main difference with the gospel story is that it was the Virgin Goddess Ahst-MERI (beloved of Isis) who conceived by the Holy Spirit Kneph, but it was the living Queen of Egypt who then gave birth to the Holy Child. They even had Carols.
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Well we know now, wow! Thanks :)
I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families. This is a subject close to my heart as I have a biblical name. :)
And lo, the prophet Roobarb spake thusly..... ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've read that biblical names were often used by Non Conformist families. This is a subject close to my heart as I have a biblical name. :)
And lo, the prophet Roobarb spake thusly..... ;)
As a general rule for Christians - Catholics choose saints' names, virtuous names are used by strict nonconformists, Old Testament names could be CofE or nonconformist ....but every rule has its exceptions!
Rather off-topic, but I like the Spanish use of Maria-Jesus for girls and Jesus-Maria for boys. I have not come across a British child named Jesus.
There was a Iesu Grist (welsh for Jesus Christ) b 1883 - son of this chap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Price_%28physician%29
The outcome of his untimely early death and his father’s method of disposing of his body was one of events that lead to cremation becoming legal in this country.
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OH's tree has a lot of biblical names, but all baptisms were in local parish church ( C of E). As well as the more common biblical names (Thomas, Martha, Abigail, Caleb, Ruth), one couple had a daughter called Jochabed - named after the mother of Moses (the one who hid him in a basket in the bullrushes) and a son called Barzillai. He seems to be quite a minor biblical figure described as an old and rich man who provided food for King David at the time his son Absolom was revolting against him. Surprisingly there are quite a lot of people called Barzillai, a search on FindMyPast gives over 2000 results. The earliest record I can find of a Barzillai is a baptism in Devon in 1592 and a burial for the same child a few days later.
Barzillai and Jochabed's brother Thomas named two of his daughters Asenath and Achsah. In the Bible Asenath was the wife of Joseph (coat of many colours) and Achsah was the daughter of Caleb (friend of Joshua - battle of Jericho). So again two quite minor biblical ladies. The family must have studied their Bible thoroughly.
And there are at least two Hezrons connected to this family, I suspect one ( born and died 1859) is the illeg son of one of these two sisters.
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A big thank you Malcolm33 that is a very interesting post do you have a suggested book we can read up on the subject It seems to explain so much
Mabel Bagshawe I live fairly near Llantrisant the home of William Price who was a very colourful charecter. Thanks to him wenow have the option of cremation. He had two sons with the name the first he cremated the second was renamed once his father had died.
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A big thank you Malcolm33 that is a very interesting post do you have a suggested book we can read up on the subject It seems to explain so much
There are many books that reveal what really happened, Trees. I was shocked solid when I first discovered the truth about 14 years ago, and yet it really all came out well over a hundred years ago when Sir Wallis Budge published his translations of Egyptian Temple and Tomb texts. Then Gerald Massey spent most of his life working on the material and wrote several books and gave lectures. His last and well known book was 'Ancient Egypt - Light of the World' published 1907 which was available on the net. But Massey was too early and was an easy target for the Church.
Perhaps the best book to start with is "Out of Egypt - the Roots of Christianity Revealed" by Egyptian/British Historian Ahmed Osman. Abe Books have it from less than a Pound now. It was such a best seller that it was reprinted under a new title, "Christianity, an Ancient Egyptian Religion".
However I had to learn Ancient Egyptian myself to check everything I had read, and in doing so I discovered more and more evidence which can be found in "Tears in Heaven" by Ian Ross Vayro from Joshua Books, Queensland. I am named in the leading credits in this book.
Tom Harpur was an ordained Anglican Minister who studied at Oxford and taught Christianity at Toronto University. Like myself he first had doubts after reading "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and that led him to Massey. Tom discarded his long life career and belief and became an author with best sellers like "The Pagan Christ".
But be careful, for I have found errors in just about every book. For example Biblical names are researched in great detail by Ralph Ellis in his "Jesus Last of the Pharaohs" and his "Tempest and Exodus" in which he illustrates names in hieroglyphs and in Ancient Hebrew, yet he is totally wrong in his "Solomon, Falcon of Sheba". There again if I hadn't have read that book I might never have discovered the vital origin of Sheba and her son David/Twt in the Kebra Nagast, the Ethiopian Bible.
My own book is a novel with a number of facts thrown in and detailed in an appendix - see www.tutankhamencode.com
I must add that knowing the origins of the Abrahamic religions enriches the teachings and explains a number of biblical puzzles, like the Fig Tree. It is just a case of getting back to the beginning.