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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: huntermh on Monday 12 January 15 22:46 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm new here so I hope I have the protocol correct and please correct me if/as I get it wrong.
I was adopted with no genetic info, but I connected with a very nice "2nd to 4th" cousin on one of those DNA testing sites and we're trying to figure out how we're related. We believe it's from her Irish side of the family (we're both in the US), so we're trying to do research on the Harper family from Co. Antrim, specifically the children of James Harper b.5/12/1806 and Jane MacCullough b.3/5/1814. We've been able to rule out one line, that of their son, James E. Harper born 2/14/1836 in Derry who immigrated to the US...so we're trying to track the other children's families. Any leads or help or advice would be much appreciated (have tried some other well known sites, dead ends so far). We have the other children's birth dates from an old family bible:
David Harper b.9/28/1834
Eliza Harper b.April 1838
Andrew Harper b.6/11/1840
Margaret Harper b.5/25/1841
Mary Harper b.10/22/1844
William & Annie Harper (twins) b. 7/31/1846
Jane Harper b.10/19/1851
Sarah Harper b.5/1/1855
Martha Harper b.7/17/1858
thanks very much everyone!
Cheers,
Hunter
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In order to start searching for the family in Ireland you really need a more exact place than 'Co. Antrim.' Any idea where they lived?
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No we don't, one old note was written on letterhead that said "Shane's Castle, Antrim" at the top, but I think that could just have been from a visit there(?), I'm not sure...was hoping that with birhtdates for so many of the family that we might have a chance.
Birth dates for the kids in the surviving pages of the old bible simply note "Co. Antrim"
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Shane's Castle is Randalstown but unfortunately all those birthdates are before the start of civil registration of births in Ireland. Do you know the names of their parents?
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we just know that all are children of James Harper b.5/12/1806 and Jane MacCullough b.3/5/1814
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Sorry, forgot you did mention the parents in the original post.
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Trying to be helpful Harper and Harpur are both common surnames. Is it clearly one spelling only used throughout in the family bible.
Where was the family bible located when first used by yourselves in a Harper household? Are you sure it would not be easy to trace backwards from the USA etc ? I notice there is a gap between the family children after the twins were born and the next child Jane, which is natural, but the timing is also when the major irish famine occurs, and I think family search.org has a special emigration list of those who left between about 1846-1851.
Child 2.James E. Harper born 2/14/1836 in Derry You have ruled him out, but his birthplace remains, was Derry named in the family bible ? Are you aware Derry or Co Londonderry as it was known, is the adjoining county to Co Antrim? Randalstown is close to the border of the the two counties. There is no Derry townland or civil parish in CO Antrim so that means the family must have moved counties after his birth or Jane went back to her mothers to have the child. There is no trace of McCulloughs in Griffiths Co Londonderry.But there are other spelling
In 1859 in Griffiths valuation see askaboutireland.com under Co Londonderry are three Harper households [and a lot more Harpurs].
Errigal Harper James Tamnymore
Banagher Harper Jane Templemoyle
Lissan Harper William Ballybriest
One can do the same for Co Antrim
I don’t have the time to search exhaustively for named Harpers using www.familysearch.org I noticed an Andrew Harper having children with his wife Elizabeth Palmer with a christening and births registered as Crumlin Co Antrim Crumlin is in Camlin civil parish. In 1826 there were no Harpurs in Camlin civil parish, but there were nearly 20 Palmers So where did he come from?
Going back to earlier surviving bits of census http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie living in 1831 at
5 in Ballymughan More (Magherafelt, Loughinsholin, Londonderry) census Forename Number of house Number of families in each Number of males in family Number of females in family Number of male servants Number of female servants Number in Established Church Number of Roman Catholics Number of Presbyterians Number of other Protestants
McCullagh Jane 5 1 1 3 - -
If one was Jane McCullough ,then one of the local churches was
1st Magherafelt Presbyterian church with the marriage date missing!
Baptisms, 1771-81(with index), and 1813-1964;
marriages, 1769-82 (with index), 1819-28 and 1845-
1963; marriage notice books for Magherafelt
Presbytery, 1845-1946; session minutes, 1703-82 and
1818-56; committee minutes, 1848, 1852-3 and1911-
45; list of elders in 1828; ministers’ visitation books,
1823-32 and 1841; ministers’ diaries, 1833-54;
ministers’ account book, 1889-1904; history of the
congregation prepared in 1853.
[Baptisms 1703-06 for Dawson's Bridge may include
baptisms for 1st Magherafelt – see under
P. Castledawson above.]
CR3/13; D2725/6; D1926/1-
2; MIC1P/450; MIC1P/460
So thats as far as I can go, good luck onwards JimG
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In 1859 in Griffiths valuation see askaboutireland.com under Co Londonderry are three Harper households [and a lot more Harpurs].
Errigal Harper James Tamnymore
Banagher Harper Jane Templemoyle
Lissan Harper William Ballybriest
...
I can rule out the James Harper in Tamneymore.
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Regarding Derrys in Co Antrim, the townland of Dirraw in Finvoy parish is often spelt "Derry" in old documents. Dirraw was also the name of a dispensary district within Ballymoney Union so applied to a wider area than a single townland. There is a Robert Harper in Ballymoney town in Griffith's but none in Finvoy. Likewise no Harpers are listed in the tithe applotment for the parish in 1834 close to James's birth. This does not mean there were no Harpers in the parish, just that they did not occupy agricultural land there.
There may well be other Derrys whose name/spelling has changed so be aware of this possibility in searching townland lists.
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I don’t have the time to search exhaustively for named Harpers using www.familysearch.org I noticed an Andrew Harper having children with his wife Elizabeth Palmer with a christening and births registered as Crumlin Co Antrim Crumlin is in Camlin civil parish. In 1826 there were no Harpurs in Camlin civil parish, but there were nearly 20 Palmers So where did he come from?
In respect of this grouping, there is the possibility of an American death connected to them - further checks would be needed though, but certainly a Samuel Palmer Harper from Belfast died in Michigan in 1891 (he was apparently a commercial traveller).
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Can't help thinking you should be searching Carnmoney,(Co Antrim)Presbyterian church records. My late husband's (James Alexander Harper)family started off there,and there so many Christain(first names) names in your list in common with his. There is one family of 11 to John Harper and Isabella Jamison between 1767 and 1790 (one is James Harper b 1778, who married a Janet Hunter on 6th Jan. 1813 ) in Carnmoney. (it's part of Belfast these days)
My husbands family had gravitated to Dungiven Co Derry,by about mid 18oo's,and there a lot of Harpers in the Dungiven area,from late 1700's.
Hope this gives you a starting point,if nothing else. Betsy Harper
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May have found a lead to David Harper b.9/28/1834
David Harper, landsteward, born Co.Antrim-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Poyntzpass/Killybodagh/1037375
Wife and daughter with daughter Mildred Harvey in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newtownards_Urban/High_Street/268529
Mildred Harper born 1873 Drummaul Randalstown, mother Mary Noble-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03200/2173272.pdf
James born 1865- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPW3-3XJ
Edward Noble born 1867- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F512-64Q
Elizabeth born 1868- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPH3-7F5
Annie Noble born 1870- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPRW-SHN
John Bruce Richard born 1875- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZP-Y9K
Could be other children but will do a bit more digging
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An incomplete family tree for the David Harper that I found but gives you quite a few new leads to explore-
David Harper (c1839 Co.Antrim-8 June 1910), landsteward, m.(18 Dec.1855) Mary Noble (d.1915)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Poyntzpass/Killybodagh/1037375
Administration of the Estate of David Harper late of Kilkeel County Down Land Steward who died 08 June 1910 granted at Belfast to Mary Harper the Widow. Effects £422 9s. 10d.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newtownards_Urban/High_Street/268529
Family tree- other children listed but has Elizabeth married to Robert McIlroy instead of Annie: http://www.taffyholden.co.uk/wc21/wc21_115.htm
More family details here (some of your information included but don’t know if you’ve been in contact with the author): http://www.byersmusic.com/resources/Harper%20Family%20or%20Families.pdf
1. Mary Jane Harper (c1859-aft.1911)
2. James Harper (1865)
3. Edward Noble Harper (1867-1867)
4. Elizabeth Harper (1868 Drummaul)
Birth: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03432/2259538.pdf
5. Annie Noble Harper (1870-1956 Wales) m.(1894) Robert McIlroy
Marriage (Annie’s address is Shane’s Castle): https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10566/5849298.pdf
1901- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9ZY-NRN
1911- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW62-GYJ
Death (Annie): https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCD-YBWN
1. Grace Noble McIlroy (1895 Lewisham, London) m.(1921) Roger Jean Gustave Steylaerts
Marriage: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCBW-X2V
1. Louis David Steylaerts (1923-1944 WWII)
http://www.luchtvaarterfgoed.be/content/monument-lancaster-ll891-zn-b-fo-lodewijk-david-steylaerts
2. Mary V. McIlroy (1897 Lewisham, London)
6. Mildred Harper (1873 Drummaul-1956) m.(c1900) Samuel Harvey (d.1952)
Harvey Samuel of High Street Newtownards county Down retired boot merchant died 14 December 1952 Administration W/A (limited) Belfast 17 November to Sarah Lilian Harvey spinster. Effects £6046 14s. 8d.
Harvey Mildred of 10 High Street Newtownards county Down widow died 30 April 1956 Probate Belfast 16 August to Lilian Harvey spinster. Effects £2400.
1. John Bruce Richard Harvey (c1901-1955)
Harvey John Bruce Richard otherwise John Bruce Randall of United Molasses Company Limited Brook House Park Lane Mayfair London and of 81 Salisbury Avenue Belfast retired merchant died 22 May 1955 at latter place Probate Belfast 10 January to the Chartered Bank of India Australia and China. Effects £50.
2. Sarah Lillian Harvey (c1903-aft.1952)
7. John Bruce Richard Harper (1875) m. Marion Beatrice Caroline
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Ballina_Urban/Dillon_Terrace/699683
Harper John Bruce Richard of "Castlenegree" Dhu Varren Portrush county Antrim retired bank manager died 20 May 1937 Probate Belfast 16 July to Bruce David Harper bank official. Effects £1676 2s. 9d.
1. Bruce David Harper (1910 Co.Mayo-aft.1937)
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Hunter - I haven't gone on Rootschat for a while,but when I was perusing yesterday I came across your Harper query. in 2015. Have you made any headway with your research since then.?
The reason I ask is because you said there was some confusion about Antrim/Derry.
My late husband,James Alexander Harper, his origins were in Carnmoney (now a northern suburb of Belfast) but 2 brothers Robert, and Hugh, were in Co Derry (Dungiven,Banagher, Limavady) from early 1800's. ( my husband James, was GG grandson of Robert)
This may be of interest to you.
Carnmoney Presbyterian Church.
John Harper and Isabella Jamison
children - Janet
Isaac married Agnes Mc Cormack in 1799
Abraham m'd Martha Porter in 1793
Alexander(Alec) m'd Eliza Moreland 1798
Hugh m'd Eliza Dubois 1799 and Jane Herdman in 1821
James m'd Ann Ramsey 1807 and Janet Hunter in 1818
Robert Park m'd Jean Hill in 1813 (my line)
William(Billy) m'd Margaret Clark1788
John (Jack) m'd Margaret Mc Cormack 1800
Mary
Maybe you can let me know if you have already sorted out your tree. Agnetta (Betsy Harper)
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Hunter - I haven't gone on Rootschat for a while,but when I was perusing yesterday I came across your Harper query. in 2015. Have you made any headway with your research since then.?
The reason I ask is because you said there was some confusion about Antrim/Derry.
My late husband,James Alexander Harper, his origins were in Carnmoney (now a northern suburb of Belfast) but 2 brothers Robert, and Hugh, were in Co Derry (Dungiven,Banagher, Limavady) from early 1800's. ( my husband James, was GG grandson of Robert)
This may be of interest to you.
Carnmoney Presbyterian Church.
John Harper and Isabella Jamison
children - Janet
Isaac married Agnes Mc Cormack in 1799
Abraham m'd Martha Porter in 1793
Alexander(Alec) m'd Eliza Moreland 1798
Hugh m'd Eliza Dubois 1799 and Jane Herdman in 1821
James m'd Ann Ramsey 1807 and Janet Hunter in 1818
Robert Park m'd Jean Hill in 1813 (my line)
William(Billy) m'd Margaret Clark1788
John (Jack) m'd Margaret Mc Cormack 1800
Mary
Maybe you can let me know if you have already sorted out your tree. Agnetta (Betsy Harper)
I am looking for a Mary Harper born about 1834 in Carnmoney to a James Harper. Is Mary a daughter of James who married Janet Hunter in 1818?
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The only one I continued research on was Robert Park Harper and Jean Hill,so have no idea about families of the other children. Sorry.
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The only one I continued research on was Robert Park Harper and Jean Hill,so have no idea about families of the other children. Sorry.
Agnetta would you know where the family of Joseph Hill Harper and Margaret McMurray ended up? I was able to trace their marriage in 1839 and the births of their children in Carnmoney via the records of the Carnmoney churches, however I have never been able to locate the family members after 1860. I believe Joseph Hill Harper would be the son of Robert Park Harper and Jean Hill. I do have an ancestry DNA match to a marriage of an Agnes Harper whose father is stated as Joseph Harper but I cannot connect it definitely to Joseph Hill Harper.
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Jason Mac Give me a couple of days to get out my Harper stuff and I'll give you what I know. OK?
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This is an old post, so maybe you have already found this out but the father of this family appears as Andrew Harper (not James) in all the records. He lived 1806-1895 and for many years was Janitor of Shane’s Castle in Randalstown. After his death, his two unmarried daughters Annie and Martha continued as Gatekeepers of the castle. Jane McCulloch Harper died in 1885. She was almost certainly the sister of John MacCulloch (1812-1876) who was a Forester at the castle and possibly of Grace McCulloch of Randalstown who married Joseph Bell in 1844.
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.......Andrew Harper (not James) in all the records. He lived 1806-1895 and for many years was Janitor of Shane’s Castle in Randalstown.
He died on 11th March 1895 at Ballygrooby, Drummaul, aged 88 years (so born c1807). His daughter Martha was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688521.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/toome-upper/drummaul/ballygrooby/
KG
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......his two unmarried daughters Annie and Martha continued as Gatekeepers of the castle.
1901 census
Residents of a house 14 in Shanes Castle Park (Randalstown, Antrim)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Randalstown/Shanes_Castle_Park/919889/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000257184/
Shane's Castle Park townland
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/toome-upper/drummaul/shanes-castle-park/
KG
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.......Andrew Harper (not James) in all the records. He lived 1806-1895 and for many years was Janitor of Shane’s Castle in Randalstown.
He died on 11th March 1895 at Ballygrooby, Drummaul, aged 88 years (so born c1807).
The OP gave his date of birth as 12 May 1806.
Ballygrooby was owned by the McCulloch gentry until about 1730. The main line had all left Co Antrim by 1800 but I am interested to know whether Jane descended from a side branch or not. The John MacCulloch I identified as her brother married someone from Kirkhill, Inverness-shire so it’s possible they were related to the McCullochs who lived there.
https://chriswestancestryblog.wordpress.com/2020/10/14/the-mccullochs-in-ireland/
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The OP gave his date of birth as 12 May 1806.
But didn't link any evidence to prove that this was his correct date of birth.
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Huntermh - I know yhis is quite some time ago and you've probably made progress since then (2015) but I haven't perused Rootschat for a long time. I'm researching Harpers too.My lot ended up in Dungiven, Co Derry but they started off in Carnmoney,Co Antrim in 1700's Big families 10 or 12 children. My earliest is John Harper bc 1742 who married Isabella Jamison in 1767 in Carnmoney (which is currently a suburb of Belfast but would have been a village in those days)John and Isabella had 10 children. Just wanted to let you know about a possible area to search in.
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Hi all,
I am trying to find a link connecting an Elizabeth Harper to my 3rd great-grandfather Samuel Russell Blair. In the Church Census collection of Templepatrick Presbyterian Church (ca. 1831-1835) she is listed within the household of Samuel Russell Blair and Margaret Moore as Elizabeth Harper "mother". However I haven't been able to find a birth year (probably around 1805-1810) and place or parents of Samuel Russell or Margaret. Therefore I don't know if Elizabeth Harper is the mother of Samuel or Margaret. I'm beginning to suspect that there is a connection to the Blair and Harper families in Carnmoney. Do you know if there is an Elizabeth Harper within your Harper family trees in Carnmoney (or Templepatrick/Ballyrobert - most likely born late 1700s) married to a Blair?
Best regards,
Ruben