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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Gibby1968 on Friday 09 January 15 15:28 GMT (UK)
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William Shackleton was born c1821 in Bingley or Keighley. His father was Joseph, a shopkeeper.
William married Rose Hindle on 28 February 1848 at the parish church in Keighley.
He died on 25 May 1851 at Pease Carr, Micklethwaite, near Bingley. He was buried at Bingley All Saints three days later.
According to his death certificate I received today, the informant was Sarah Shackleton. Is she his sister? Where was Rose when William died?
I would like to know more about William but I don't have much to go on.
Can anyone help please?
Thanks.
Rose went onto marry my 3x great grandfather James Stell and have three children.
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This is the only Shackleton family that I can see in the village of Micklethwaite in the 1851 census. The family does include a Sarah Shackleton :-\
Richard Shackelton 37 Wool Comber Leicestershire
Sarah Shackelton 37 Yeadon, Yorkshire,
John Shackelton 12 Doffer Micklethwaite, Yorkshire,
George Shackelton 8 Micklethwaite, Yorkshire,
Emma Shackelton 0 Micklethwaite, Yorkshire
Kay
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Where was Rose when William died?
She was only young and probably distraught, perhaps someone older offered to do it for her ;)
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I did find a Joseph and William Shackleton in 1841.
I am just having another look for it.
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Looking at the 1851 Census (taken 30 March 1851) Rose is enumerated as "widow" She is living with children Sarah, Joseph and Levi. James Stell is living with her. Is the William Shackleton who died on 25 May 1851 the correct one? There are several William Shackleton deaths around that area in that time frame.
Goughy
Edit HO107 Piece 2287 Folio 450 Page 16
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Hello,
Is that definitely the right William Shackleton?
There is a William Shackelton in Micklethwaite with wife Sarah in 1851 2286/247/17. He is 29 yrs but Sarah is 40 yrs so the age could be wrong, I suppose.
Do you have Rose in 1851?
Regards
Heywood
Added- our posts have crossed but perhaps are linked.
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Thanks for the link Goughy- I would never have found that!
The three children were born before the marriage to William ???
Joseph and Levi Hindle both baptised 1849, mother Rose.
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I wonder if this is the death:
Burial March 17th 1849
William Shackleton 41 yrs address Branch House Newsholme.
The district where Rose lives covers Newsholme according to the enumerator's description.
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I need to look into this a bit more.
Rose was married to James Stell in 1852 and they had three children; Thomas, Maria (my 2x great grandmother who married Stephen Hey) and William.
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Good idea to check again.
Have you seen Rose with James in 1851?
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This is the link for Rose's marriage to James Stell;
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WYorkCoEMarriage&h=21720411&ti=0&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t71256687_p44233626196_kpidz0q3d44233626196z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
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And this is the link to Rose's marriage to William Shackleton;
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WYorkCoEMarriage&h=21719597&ti=0&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t71256687_p44233626196_kpidz0q3d44233626196z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
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1861 census for Rose and James;
RG 9/3227/101 p2
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There is a Joseph Shackleton living with them who is listed as a son-in-law.
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The links you've given are those I tracked to find the 1851 census, and it is the same family.
The "Joseph Shackleton - Son-in-law" from evidence from baptism records, 1851 census, is Rose's son (born Joseph Hindle). "Son-in-law" doesn't necessarily have the same meaning as today, it often referred to "adopted son".
Possible marriage of Joseph Hindle to Margaret Heys 5 September 1869 - "father unknown"
In relation to Joseph's siblings: Levi Hindle could have died in 1856. Not found a possible death or marriage for Sarah Hannah.
Goughy
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Yes same here- that is the information I used.
Rose is already in the same household as James Stell in 1851, as is her son Joseph.
Son in law = stepson.
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Thanks for the information.
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A friend has also picked up the same 1851 information.
I am trying to fit all the pieces together.
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It's good to have all the information together.
Let's hope it all makes sense now. :)
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Not quite ???
Have established that I have the right death certificate but I am trying to figure out where the informant Sarah Shackleton fits in.
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Are you sure that is the right death certificate?
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Yes, me and my friend agree that I have the right certificate.
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Yes, me and my friend agree that I have the right certificate.
If so, then maybe William and Rose had parted and he was living with someone called Sarah.
As I said earlier, there is an earlier death for a WS which is a possibility and would leave Rose to be with James Stell in 1851.
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As Rose was living with James Stell as a widow on 1851 census, have you found "your" William Shackleton on the 1851 Census and who was he living with?
Goughy
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It is difficult as the name is common to that area.
William and Rose married in Keighley.
William's address Oakworth. Rose's Hope and Anchor.
1849 a William Shackleton dies Branch House, Newsholme burial Keighley
1851 Rose living West or White House, Keighley.
Enumerator's description mentions Oakworth boundary, Newsholme, Holme House 'far and near'.
James and Rose married Keighley. Addresses Holme House
As mentioned before, There is a William and Sarah in Micklethwaite. Sadly census just shows addresses as Micklethwaite village.
The 1851 burial is Bingley as is Micklethwaite.
I think you should investigate a bit more just to make sure.
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1851;
HO107/2286/ 247 p 17;
It looks like William had another wife, either legal or common law. Her name was Sarah (possibly tge Sarah on the death certificate)
There were some children as well.
Not sure yet if the children are their children or just hers.
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That's the one we posted earlier.
That William shows as born Lancashire.
He is probably the one who marries Sarah Waterhouse in 1841 in Bingley.
Children
Ann baptised 1840 mother Sarah Whitehouse- Bingley
Elizabeth baptised 1845 parents Wiliam and Sarah Shackleton Bingley.
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That's them :)
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That's them :)
That's right but I would say that he is not your William. The child Ann marries as Ann Waterhouse - she was born before the 1841 marriage.
Why do you and your friend think that the 1851 death is him?
Would you not consider this death?
March quarter 1849 William Shackleton Keighley volume 23 page 287
Burial Keighley March 17th 1849 abode Branch House, Newsholme.
The death ties in with Rose being a widow. It might not be him but it is a better fit.
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My friend is correct.
Ann Waterhouse was born out of wedlock and Elizabeth was a legitimate child.
She has checked the information before passing it to me.
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Ann Waterhouse baptism;
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WYorkCoEBaptism&h=8700770&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t71256687_p44342952751_kpidz0q3d44342952751z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
Elizabeth Shackleton baptism;
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WYorkCoEBaptism&h=8702957&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t71256687_p44342952752_kpidz0q3d44342952752z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
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Your friend is correct with the baptisms - that's what I base the information re William Shackleton and Sarah Waterhouse and who is with Sarah in 1851 and very probably the one who dies in Bingley in 1851. That information is correct for a different William.
The death you have in 1851 certainly offers no proof that he is the one who married Rose in fact the other chap fits much better.
What does your friend think of the one who dies in Keighley in 1849?
Unless the earlier death is checked you can't be certain. I am sure your friend would agree.
Best wishes
Heywood
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Rose Hindle married William Shackleton the son of Joseph Feb 1848 William must have died to enable Rose to marry James Stell 29 Sep 1852 in a church, and on the PR she is shown as a widow.
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I agree Valendale.
I am still working through this query.
It seems a little odd that Rose and William are not together on the 1851 census.
Rose is with James Stell whom she married in 1851 and William is with a Sarah Shackleton. Both Rose and Sarah seem to have illegitimate children.
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I apologise for repeating myself but the William who is with Sarah is a different person.
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William Shackleton died in 1849 so he would not show on the 1851 census
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William Shackleton died in 1849 so he would not show on the 1851 census
As you will see Valendale, I have mentioned this several times.
The one with Sarah in 1851 married earlier and Gibby has the details.
They are in different areas etc.
I have asked Gibby1968 and friend to consider that death before. It makes much more sense- as you say Rose is a widow and with James Stell.
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William Shackleton died in 1849 so he would not show on the 1851 census
As you will see Valendale, I have mentioned this several times.
The one with Sarah in 1851 married earlier and Gibby has the details.
They are in different areas etc.
I have asked Gibby1968 and friend to consider that death before. It makes much more sense- as you say Rose is a widow and with James Stell.
I am in full agreement with you, the other William Shackleton is a different person. To add further weight, Newholme is only a spit away from Holme House.
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Out of interest, what is it that is swaying you away from this William and leading you to the William with Sarah?
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I have to agree with Heywood and valendale. I, personally, would send for the death certificate Heywood found in 1849.
March quarter 1849 William Shackleton Keighley volume 23 page 287
Goughy
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It seems that Sarah Shackleton may have been either a legal or perhaps common law wife of William.
The 1849 death is not for the William I am researching.
He is on the 1851 with Sarah while Rose is with James Stell.
As someone said earlier William must have died before Rose's marriage to James Stell as that took place in a church.
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Hello again,
We can see you have a firm belief that William who died 1851, with Sarah as informant is yours.
What evidence is there that he is your William.
It just doesn't seem to fit with marriage information, census and death information.
May I ask if you have the 1849 death certificate?
If not, how do you know he isn't yours?
Why do you think your William is the one with Sarah? What evidence is there?
Regards
Heywood
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To appear in the 1851 census, you must be alive on 30/31 March 1851.
William Shackleton, with Sarah, is alive at the time of the 1851 census - aged 29 - living in Micklethwaite.
William Shackleton died 25 May 1851, and buried 28 May 1851 at Bingley, with informant as Sarah, is said to be aged 30.
Therefore, by a process of elimination, the William Shackleton who is buried 17 March 1849 in Keighley, aged 41, is probably :-\ the William Shackleton who married Rose Hindle.
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I noticed on Ancestry that someone doing the same tree has gone for making the William from Bingley the same William that was from Keighley, I wonder if this is having some baring on things.
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I just wish Gibby1968 would share the very strong reasons for the belief that Wlliam died in 1851.
I have just looked at the tree you mention- a couple of questionable records there.
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I have nothing to add at this time other than that I do not take any notice of the trees on ancestry as they are more than likely inacurate.
My reasons for believing I may be on the right track are detailed in this thread.
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William Shackleton was born c1821 in Bingley or Keighley. His father was Joseph, a shopkeeper.
William married Rose Hindle on 28 February 1848 at the parish church in Keighley.
He died on 25 May 1851 at Pease Carr, Micklethwaite, near Bingley. He was buried at Bingley All Saints three days later.
According to his death certificate I received today, the informant was Sarah Shackleton. Is she his sister? Where was Rose when William died?
I would like to know more about William but I don't have much to go on.
Can anyone help please?
Thanks.
Rose went onto marry my 3x great grandfather James Stell and have three children.
Hello again,
Glad to hear that about the trees- they are fine as long as they are evidenced.
Your reasons in the thread seem to be based on the above statement.
A few of us have pointed out the possibilities for error and have tried to explain who Sarah Shackleton could be - the wife of a different WS.
This would need to be proved by the earlier death certificate.
Your premise, that William married Rose and then left her to live with a woman who was also married to a man of the same name whilst Rose called herself a widow is difficult to understand.
I don't know the area but I can see through the censuses and the marriage and death records, that the two Williams are in different places.
My conclusions may be totally wrong but as I have said, without that other certificate you could be also using inaccurate information as there is nothing at all to indicate that the 1851 death of William is the husband of Rose.
Regards
Heywood
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Just wanting to help like the others are, and just asking so we can see it from where you are coming from. When you say your reasons are in this thread, do you mean the bit where you wrote
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Re: William Shackleton
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 10 January 15 12:05 GMT (UK) »
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There is a Joseph Shackleton living with them who is listed as a son-in-law."
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Joseph Shackleton in the 1861 census, was born Joseph Hindle, but he took the Shackleton name when Rose married William
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I agree with you, in not putting 100% trust in Ancestry trees. However, as has been pointed out to you, to be enumerated on the census for 1851 you have to be alive on 30/31 March 1851. William Shackleton, married to Sarah, is alive on that date. There is a subsequent burial of William Shackleton on 28 May 1851, and you agree that on his death certificate for 25 May 1851 the informant is Sarah Shackleton. Rose, on the other hand, is shown as a widow (although actually the census return shows her as Boaz, a 29 year old MALE widower) and so her William must have died prior to 30/31 March 1851.
I am, therefore, at a loss to understand why you still think that William who died in May 1851 is the husband of Rose. :-\ There is obviously something that you are not willing to divulge.
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Having already spent £10 on the certificate I have, I don't really want to waste more money.
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Fair enough.
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One of the many problems I am having with this is that the William Shackleton at Micklethwaite is shown born Lancashire in the 1851 census.
I really do wish you would share with us what it is that makes you think this is the same William
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It looks like William had another wife, either legal or common law. Her name was Sarah (possibly tge Sarah on the death certificate)
Sorry to bring this up again, BUT
You state that William appears to have another wife, legal or otherwise. BUT the marriage between William Shackleton and Sarah Waterhouse took place in 1841. The marriage between William Shackleton and Rose Hindle took place in 1848, therefore IF there is an illegal marriage it is between William and Rose - I don't, personally, think that that is the case, as I believe that we have two individuals named William Shackleton, who married two individual brides.
All the documentary evidence points to the burial in 1851 as being William who married Sarah - he DOES appear on the 1851 census with Sarah, he is said to be 29 years old on the 1851 census, and is said to be 30 on his burial in May 1851, informant on the death certificate is SARAH. The only discrepancy might be that he said he was "full age" when he married.
Rose, on the other hand, excluding the fact that she appears on the 1851 census as a 29 year old male, is said to be a widow(er), which implies that William has died prior to the date of the census.
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Still trying to work this puzzle out.
If/when I have more information I will post it here.
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If you could just tell us why you pumped for the most unlikely William Shackleton would help a lot. Would help me as I am really intrigued as to why you think this one is the one.
There are so many others that would fit the bill, just seems strange why you have gone for the one most unlikely
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Having already spent £10 on the certificate I have, I don't really want to waste more money.
Sadly, we all do this at some time or another. However, it isn't sufficient reason to adopt him as an ancestor.
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For the benefit of anyone thinking of using some of the information posted on this thread to use in their family history research please read the below first.
William Shackleton was born 1808 bap 1812 to Joseph Shackleton & Sally Emmott.
William's residence at his death is recorded at Branch House, Newsholme & was buried at Keighley 17 March 1849. Rose is at the White House in 1851, Branshaw Moor House 1861 & White House, Lower Holme House 1871.
All these addresses are actually the same place, and it is still there today although now with extensions. It was a small cottage that stood on the edge of Branshaw Moor in the boundary of Newsholme, on Holme House Lane.
The William that died in 1851 Micklethwaite has no connection to the William Shackleton of Newsholme.