RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BNNS on Saturday 03 January 15 22:50 GMT (UK)
-
I hope that someone may have info. William Kelly lived in Boston, Suffolk, USA 1845 his daughter born around 1845 in USA. They came to Lancashire in 1860 and Rosanna married a Peter Proctor from Accrington. She then married a James Cuerden and stayed here till her death. But don't know about William and as to why they came from America and did he go back - tailor by trade
-
They came to Lancashire in 1860
In 1861 - Rosanna is aged 16 and in lodgings in Accrington.
When and where was William Kelly born? Who was his wife?
-
Really struggling with anything about William
-
You say they came to Lancashire in 1860 - where did you get that date from?
It would be unusual for the whole family to come to the UK in 1860 then return to the USA before 1861 leaving their 16yr old daughter behind.
There are lots of 1861 entries for William Kelly in Lancashire so without some additional info about the rest of the family it's difficult to pinpoint the right one
Did you get his name from the 1862 and 1876 marriage certs or do you have other independant evidence of his existence
-
The info has come from the marriage certificate in 1876 with Rosanna and James Cuerden and he signed as Rosanna's father. Previously she married first time in 186I don't have any other evidence.
cheers
-
Civil marriage records don't usually record the relationship, if any, between the couple and the witnesses. So, how do you know that the William Kelly who signed the 1876 marriage certificate was her father?
Looking at both marriages- what's listed as father's name and occupation?
Have you tried to see if there's any connection between Rosanna and any of the witnesses?
-
Yes cheers for that will do.
-
Hello,
The witnesses to that marriage were John Cottam and Sarah Cottam. William Kelly is shown as Rosanna's father but he did not sign the certificate.
Heywood
-
Previously she married first time in 186I don't have any other evidence.
She married in 1862 at Christ Church Accrington and her father is also shown as William.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXD2-VB4
-
Hi,
Thanks, that does mean that William was with Rosanna at her first marriage, I will see if I can locate him in Lancashire, perhaps until his death.
Cheers again
-
No, father's name and occupation are listed on English marriage certificates but that extracted record DOES NOT show that William was at the marriage or even alive at that time. The actual certificate may, or may not, show father as deceased as sometimes that detail was omitted.
-
Hi
Thanks to everyone, that is great I will use this info and see if I can locate William in Lancashire, perhaps until his death
Cheers
-
William may not even exist. It was common practice for illegitimate children to make up a father when they married so as to appear "respectable"
If William did exist - he possibly died in the USA hence Rosanna coming to England - but where was her mother?
-
As Carole says, he may not exist but at the moment we know nothing .
It is a mystery why Rosanna is in Accrington in 1861 though.
There is a death on Lancashire Free BMD for William Kelly, 50 yrs, Haslingden district.
Free BMD shows it March quarter 1857 Haslingden 8e 102
However, it is a common name but may be worth checking - if only to eliminate.
-
Hi,
It does seem that he may or may not have been alive, will check free bmd, it is a mystery as to why she was in Accrington on her own.
Cheers
-
All that you really know, so far, is that Rosanna was born c1845 in America (Boston, Massachusetts listed in at least one census but that could refer to the area or state rather than the city itself) and that her father was supposed to be William Kelly, a tailor, and that by the 1860s she was in England.
Perhaps her father died in America and Rosanna came to England with her mother. There are all sorts of possibilities.
-
Suggestion to look up English census 1871 & 1881, William may have lived with daughter
Do you have Rosanna's mother's name ?
Passenger lists may help
As a tailor would William show up on any trade directory in USA or England
-
Suggestion to look up English census 1871 & 1881, William may have lived with daughter
Do you have Rosanna's mother's name ?
Passenger lists may help
As a tailor would William show up on any trade directory in USA or England
I think the problem is that the name of Rosanna's mother is not known.
Passenger lists for this period will not be any help. It's too earlier for lists of passengers entering the U.K. (as Rosaan would have done sometime between 1845-1861). Early lists for travel to N.Y., Boston, etc. do survive but detail is minimal (usually just name, age, occupation & ciountry of origin). If William was born in the U.K. he may not have been a tailor when he left but actually we have absolutely no idea when or where William was born (could have been England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, U.S., Canada, etc.).
It would be worth looking for a tailor named William Kelly in England in the area where Rosanna lived but if he was working for someone else then he's less likely to be listed.
-
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the differing possibilities, Rosanna was married in the census of 1871 to Peter Proctor, and then the census of 1881 married to James Cuerden, no William Kelly.
There is the added problem that I do not no know her mother's name and I have asked the family. There seems to be very little known about Rosanna's time in Boston. I have looked at the passenger lists and they are very sketchy. I did find William at the Proctor Household in 1861 along with Rosanna, this was in Salmesbury, part of Preston, which is not far from Blackburn and Darwen where Rosanna lived later on with two sisters during her time in Darwen and working in a mill before her first marriage in Accrington.
I am so grateful for all the input from everyone, It leads me to believe that something happened between the census years 1871 and 1881.
Cheers
-
I wonder if we are all looking at the same 1861 census record- think this might be the first time you've mentioned William was actually found in the 1861 census?
In 1861 - Rosanna is aged 16 and in lodgings in Accrington.
When and where was William Kelly born? Who was his wife?
1861 Census- Accrington: Rosehannah? Kelly, 16, America British subject in household of Betty Haworth
... I did find William at the Proctor Household in 1861 along with Rosanna, this was in Salmesbury, part of Preston, which is not far from Blackburn and Darwen where Rosanna lived later on with two sisters during her time in Darwen and working in a mill before her first marriage in Accrington.
I haven't been able to find either Rossanna or father William with a Proctor family in 1861 :-\
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
-
Hello again,
I too am puzzled by your reference to William Kelly and a Proctor household.
Also you mention that Rosannah lives in Darwen at some point.
1861 and 1871 she is in Accrington. :-\
I have just noticed this entry for 1851 2248/ 71/ 18
Newchurch
William Kelly married, 38 yrs, a Tailor, born Belfast is visiting Timothy Rushton, a Woollen Spinner.
Heywood