RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: rinnan on Saturday 03 January 15 19:37 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to find more information about the family Grotty Whelan from ballingrane shannacarry cork. I have only been able to go back to the birth of Hannan Grottey 1888. But then I hit a dead end. As for Whelan. David Whelen 1885 was the son of Robert Whelan (1860 - 1920 and Alice johnson ( 1860 - 1885 ) but then there also a dead end.
I am not really a novice , I have been able to find my family back ( Norway ) to 1500 but this is my husbands line. Hopefully I can get more leads here . Thank you all for any help. If anyone needs help on Norway, just let me know . I have so many resources from Norway. kind regards Louisa
-
I don't know that area very well but am struggling to find this place in Cork- closest I've come are townlands called Ballingarrane and Shanagarry in Kilmahon civil parish (Middleton P.L.U./registration district).
I did find this David Whelan in the 1901 census with Johnson grandparents who seems to be the right age-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban/Bishop_Street/1163019
Johnson family in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/Bishop_Street/406620
-
1911
transcribed as Daniel
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/Harbour_View/407016/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001911274/
marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYDK-C4M
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYDL-JJC
-
Wonder if this is Hannah Crotty (not Hannan Grotty as in original post)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban/Harbour_View/1163433
The marriage certificate should list her father's name and occupation (unless illegitimate).
-
I'm researching Johnson's in Cobh, Aghada and Passage. Is the Johnson angle of interest ?
I've collected many records but the various Johnson and associated families remain a jigsaw of potential associations.
I'm guessing you have the Baptism records of three siblings of David from RootsIreland, Mary J 1877, Alice Mary, 1879, and Catherine in 1882.
The marriage and baptismal sponsors maybe of interest? None are Whelan's though?
I recall trying to trace them and most seem to be local shopkeepers: Robert Whelan was a baker.
(Have you managed to trace where Robert Whelan was originally from?)
Of David's siblings, Mary married James Ware in 1883, another sister Elizabeth(can't find bap) married Peter Ware in 1893, Catherine married James O'Connor in 1894.
( :-\ Opps, glitch, these are the marriages of David's Aunts)
David's mother, Alice Johnson, was the dau of Patrick Johnson and Mary Reilly, Patrick was a Cobh butcher. Many mentions in Court and Legal records on Findmypast.ie.
I have some info on her siblings as well. I am trying to establish or otherwise a link between this Johnson family with my own.
Happy to share more
Padraig
-
Hello again....couldn't help myself!!!
forgot to point out that it looks like Robert Whelan was married twice,
first to Alice Johnson on 19th June 1875 in Cobh.
If you order the marriage cert. Alice Johnson, Cork, vol 10 p115 from the GRO this will give you Robert's fathers name and profession, it may also give a locality where the Whelan's maybe outside of Cobh.
It looks like Alice Whelan nee Johnson died in 1885 aged 31. Deaths Cork v 5 p 136.
It maybe sadly at childbirth with David
Robert Whelan seems to have remarried in 1886 to a Jane Casey.
In the 1901 census they are lodging with a Thomas Martin, also a baker, in Douglas St, Cork City
1911 now around the corner in Mary St, Cork.
Robert died in 1927, aged 75. A cursory search couldn't find any Will through the National Archives.
Regards Padraig.
-
Hi Padraig ,have noted that you have David's sisters getting married rather young ?
-
For reference here are the entries for Robert Whelan with 2nd wife Jane. I didn't post them yesterday when I found them as I was waiting for OP to respond.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Cork_Urban_No__5/Douglas_Street/1113906
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Mary_Street/399449
-
Thank you for the great links. But I do see something that doesn't make sense.
"Of David's siblings, Mary married James Ware in 1883, another sister Elizabeth(can't find bap) married Peter Ware in 1893, Catherine married James O'Connor in 1894."
I think this is a mix up :o
I will get back to you. Now it looks like I have more leads to check out. Thank you all so much.
My Alice Johnson 1860-1885 Is said to have two sisters Teresa Johnson and Elisabeth ( Lily ) Johnson, but no parents found yet. Maybe with the links I have now?
and yes the name was wronge it should be Crotty and not Grotty.
Louisa
-
I have found Robert Whelan's father . He too was named David Whelan born 1815 in Dungarven. I can't get many results from other sources ( sites ) due to paid subscription. Which I can't afford. Maybe when I get more money :'(
It looks like most Whelans were sea man. My father in law as well.
-
I'm having a bit of trouble following everything here. Your initial post mentioned "Grotty Whelan from ballingrane shannacarry cork" which I think might be the townlands of Ballingarrane and Shanagarry in Kilmahon civil parish.
By 1901 Hannah Crotty looks to be working away from home but there are Crotty families in Shanagarry and Ballinagrane which might be of interest.
Robert Whelan was a baker but now you've said his father David was a sea man from Dungarvan. Doe both of Robert's marriage certificate confirm his father's anme and occupation or do you have this from other sources?
-
Yes...mistake.
Those were the marriages of David's Aunt's, i.e., Alice Johnson's sister's. Sorry on that one.
That was a slip...I've rechecked and am confidant in the other information given. I have a database of all Johnson marriages and baptisms from Cobh available on RootsIreland.
David and 3 sisters listed to Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily.
Marriage of Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily in 1852, 10 records of children, some names repeated, so perhaps a child died and a new child given the name.
Padraig
-
another dead end . Robert father was named David and Why Robert was a baker is still confusing. But it is for sure the same Robert Whelan married to Alice Johnson.
His son David Joseph born 1885 married to Hannah Crottey was a sea man , as his sons were.
They did tell me that Roberts father was also a seaman named David, so I thought I had found him, but it isn't the same David.
I have received a some papers about Robert and Alice from family in Ireland. I will try to attach the paper here, so you can see. It might be of some help.
tried to upload a document, but didn't work. I will have to leave for today, but I will be back tomorrow ! Louisa ;)
-
I don't know that area very well but am struggling to find this place in Cork- closest I've come are townlands called Ballingarrane and Shanagarry in Kilmahon civil parish (Middleton P.L.U./registration district).
I did find this David Whelan in the 1901 census with Johnson grandparents who seems to be the right age-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban/Bishop_Street/1163019
Johnson family in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/Bishop_Street/406620
Thank you, I had these leads as well. At least the national archives are still free. But I can't find everything there.
-
I'm having a bit of trouble following everything here. Your initial post mentioned "Grotty Whelan from ballingrane shannacarry cork" which I think might be the townlands of Ballingarrane and Shanagarry in Kilmahon civil parish.
By 1901 Hannah Crotty looks to be working away from home but there are Crotty families in Shanagarry and Ballinagrane which might be of interest.
Robert Whelan was a baker but now you've said his father David was a sea man from Dungarvan. Doe both of Robert's marriage certificate confirm his father's anme and occupation or do you have this from other sources?
The David I quoted was wrong. I have found more and will post it at the end. Thank you , Louisa
-
Here is the latest I have about Whelan -Crotty.
the Oldest
5)Whelan +- 1800 ( David ) had decided to emigrate to America , but his wife would not go. It is said that the marriage ended there. Leaving his wife (? Crotty ) with her 2 sons. This around 1830-1840
The 2 sons were
4) David Whelan born around 1830-1840 and
4) Maurise Whelan-Crotty ; The name comes from Maurice being raised by His mothers sister Mrs. Crotty
4)Maurice married PeggyWilliams they had 4 children John, Briget, Mary Ellen, and Elisabeth.[/b]
4)David Whelan , Maurise's brother had 2 children. Martha Whelan of Ballycotten ( wife of Jim Cotter )and
3)Robert Whelan who then married Alice Johnson
3 children were born to Robert and Alice ,
2)David ,May and Kathy.
2)[i]David Whelan [/i] 1885 married to Hannah Crotty 1882 had 4 children ,
1)Alice 1909 [/b].[/i] 1)David 1920 1)Joe 1933 ( adopted ) and 1)Maisy 1912
2)Hannah Crotty parents their names were
3) Denis Grotty and Mary Gairey.
Hannah had 2 brothers and 3 sisters. John, Jim, Julia, Helen and Minnie.
As for where they are all from the county Cork. To my knowledge. As for the older generations, this must still be verified. Which I do hope to do.
All this information has been send from the UK.
If this is any use for anyone, or if you can fill in the gaps, then I would appreciate it very much.
Sorry I didn't get back before now , but I have been very busy
did I already wish you all a Happy New Year? well Happy New year to all,
Louisa
-
2)Hannah Crotty parents their names were
3) Denis Grotty and Mary Gairey.
Hannah had 2 brothers and 3 sisters. John, Jim, Julia, Helen and Minnie.
Denis Crotty (c1831? or c1837?) m.(c1872) Mary (c1856? or c1850?)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Ballycotton/Ballingarrane/1132959
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Ballycottin/Ballingarrane/433311
married 39 years, 7 children/5 living, daughter married Cahill?
1. John (c1874)
2. Ellen (c1885) Helen
3. Julia (c1887)
4. James (c1891)
? Hannah (1880)- mother Geary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGPQ-MFC
? Daniel (1878)- mother Geary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDT-J19
-
David and 3 sisters listed to Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily.
Marriage of Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily in 1852, 10 records of children, some names repeated, so
Can't seem to post correctly at the moment !!! In my last post this section should read
"David and 3 sisters to Robert Whelan and Alice Johnson"
These are
Oct 1877 Mary J (Josephine) Spon: Fredrick Kinealy, Penelope Barry.
May 1879 Alice Mary Spon: Bartholemew Vaughan, Mary Ellen Johnson,
Mar 1882 Catherine Spon: Patrick O Connor, Ellen Moynahan.
and of course
Mar 1885 David Joseph Spon: Edward Kennedy, Catherine Kennedy.
May could be either Mary J or Alice Mary.
Presuming one of them died young as they are to unknown to you?
Couldn't find a death for an Alice Whelan at a young age in Cork but a Mary Whelan died in Jan-Mar 1878 aged 0, so that's one chance.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTM2-92Q
Mary Ellen Johnson, seems to be one of Alice's sisters.
B June 1855, Cobh, Spon: Dominic Rohan, Ellen Butten.
Hope this time I've checked carefully....Padraig
-
Looking at what I have received about Whelen Crotty.
the marriage of Denis Crotty and Mary Gairey. .
Seems that Mary Gairey. was born in Monagurra or Balligrane in 1856
.
It is said that Dennis Crotty
was a farmer on land owned by O'Brien and on this land a cottage stood. it was build 1875 during the Fenian troubles in Ireland and that the rooftrusses were used as barricades during one particular battle , at Ballingrane in 1856.
All their children were born here.. They left the cottage in or around 1914 and left the possession of the cottage to Helen Crotty ,,who raised her children here.
Mary died in 1935 , and buried with Patrick Cahill, Helene child ; who died of tuberculous at the age of 7.
The children of Dennis and Mary,
John ( 1874 ) is said to have jumped ship in Australia. The last that was heard of him was a letter to his mother Mary saying that he had a 15 year old son. Nothing more was heard from him.
Minnie died before 1900 at the age of 17, maybe why she did not show up on the 1901 census.
Was Jim or James the same person? Jim was the youngest of the family.
Thank you for your help , hopefully my information will be a help to others.
I have a picture of Mary Gairey. with her daughter Julia and Helen's son John Grogan. taken in or about 1926. I will post it on picture Restoration here because it is very dark. You can see it there.
Thank again , will check on the other lines now;
greetings Louisa
-
David and 3 sisters listed to Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily.
Marriage of Patrick Johnson and Mary Reily in 1852, 10 records of children, some names repeated, so
Can't seem to post correctly at the moment !!! In my last post this section should read
"David and 3 sisters to Robert Whelan and Alice Johnson"
These are
Oct 1877 Mary J (Josephine) Spon: Fredrick Kinealy, Penelope Barry.
May 1879 Alice Mary Spon: Bartholemew Vaughan, Mary Ellen Johnson,
Mar 1882 Catherine Spon: Patrick O Connor, Ellen Moynahan.
and of course
Mar 1885 David Joseph Spon: Edward Kennedy, Catherine Kennedy.
May could be either Mary J or Alice Mary.
Presuming one of them died young as they are to unknown to you?
Couldn't find a death for an Alice Whelan at a young age in Cork but a Mary Whelan died in Jan-Mar 1878 aged 0, so that's one chance.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTM2-92Q
Mary Ellen Johnson, seems to be one of Alice's sisters.
B June 1855, Cobh, Spon: Dominic Rohan, Ellen Butten.
Hope this time I've checked carefully....Padraig
Yes Mary Whelan died young. Alice Mary Whelan was called " May " and died in 1970. Catherine Whelan is known as Kate.
thanks for the info.
Louisa
Louisa
-
2)Hannah Crotty parents their names were
3) Denis Grotty and Mary Gairey.
Hannah had 2 brothers and 3 sisters. John, Jim, Julia, Helen and Minnie.
Denis Crotty (c1831? or c1837?) m.(c1872) Mary (c1856? or c1850?)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Ballycotton/Ballingarrane/1132959
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Ballycottin/Ballingarrane/433311
married 39 years, 7 children/5 living, daughter married Cahill?
1. John (c1874)
2. Ellen (c1885) Helen
3. Julia (c1887)
4. James (c1891)
? Hannah (1880)- mother Geary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGPQ-MFC
? Daniel (1878)- mother Geary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDT-J19
???
A bit confusing here as to the ages of the family.
Looks like Dennis was only 4 years older
Mary 15 years older, the children were correct.
Wonder why the difference. ? Does this happen often??
Any help here?
Louisa
-
Robert Whelan (my Great-grandfather) (Thomas Street Cobh) married Alice Johnson on 19/06/1875. The Marriage Cert states he was a "Baker". His father David Whelan was also a"Baker". Alice Johnson's father, Patrick Johnson was a Butcher. Robert and Alice had 3 children. May, Kate,and David, David was born on 27/03/1885 Alice died soon after.( I have applied for a copy of the death Cert) . Robert remarried Jane and moved to Cork. He died 22/07/1927, the death Cert states Widower. age 75 years profession baker. May (Roberts daughter) married Daniel Fitzpatrick, Kate (daughter) (Kathy) is said to have married a British Soldier surname "Darling" posted in Ireland and later moved to London. David (Robert's son) married Hannah Crotty from Ballingarrane Hannah was born 25/02/1885 Father Denis Crotty, mother Mary Geary. David (also as Sonny) had 4 Children Alice, Mary (known as Maisey) David and Joe.
-
Thank you so much for the info. Mary (known as Maisey) was the mother of my father in law. She married Cornelius Geluk from Holland. I had the pleasure to met Maisy. She died of cancer around 1972, don't have the exact date by the hand. May I ask who you descend from? And do you live in England or Ireland? Any way thank you for all the info. kind regards, Louisa
-
Kate's marriage to Henry Darling ,Cork 1910 ???
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/5a0dec6556943
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY6T-GZN
-
Thank you for information. Alice, was my mother Maisey was my Aunt. I live in U.K. We left Cobh in 1958.
Kindest Regards.
-
Then maybe you know my father in law David Geluk? I did meet your mother a few times here in Antwerpen. Aunt Alice, remember her well.
hope to hear from you
kind regards,
Louisa
-
Hi Louisa,
Yes I do know David, he is my cousin. My mother did enjoy many visits to her nieces and nephews over the years. I am pleased to hear you met with her. She was a character.
I have just got a copy of the Death Certificate. Robert Whelan's wife Alice. Alice died on 29th July 1885 4 months after David Whelan (my grandfather) was born. She died of tuberculosis she was 31 years. You may already have this information.
Kindest Regards.