RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DiGi on Thursday 01 January 15 13:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Copyright query
Post by: DiGi on Thursday 01 January 15 13:20 GMT (UK)
I've been researching my 2 x great grandfather's life as a Redcoat in India and Afghanistan in the early 1800's and was reading a book [via Google Books] called "Scenes in a soldier's Life: being a connected narrative of the principal military events in Sindh, Beeloochistan, and Afghanistan during 1839, 1840, 1841, 1842 and 1843 under Generals Lord Keane, Brooks, Sir R Sale, Wiltshire, Pollock, Nott, England, McCaskill and Sir C Napier” written by John Henry Wilton, 1848.  I've now found that the book is copyright of someone who has changed the name of the writer from John Henry Wilton to J H W Hall.  Apart from the changed name of the author, the book title exactly the same as John Henry Wilton's and I take it that it will be the same book.  I realise if I want to quote anything from the book I will need to get the permission of the copyright holder. I've found John Henry Wilton's version on a website called "Forgotten Books".  So my question is, if I quote anything from John Henry Wilton's book,  who exactly is the copyright holder?

DiGi
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Marmalady on Thursday 01 January 15 14:01 GMT (UK)
The original version will be out of copyright - so you should be OK quoting from that

The other version may well have other differences besides the change of authors name -- the addition of notes or maps etc -- and that version will be copyrighted to the new author

*DISCLAIMER* these are my personal opinions from my understanding of copyrights - i do not have in depth legal knowledge

Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: mazi on Thursday 01 January 15 14:05 GMT (UK)
Google books is the copyright holder of   The image you see on your screen.  As I understand it you may not cut and paste any part of that image.

I wait to be corrected but, since the original book is out of copyright you may use the words and sentences in it, since they are part of everyday language.

Mike
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Thursday 01 January 15 14:09 GMT (UK)
As Google books states, this book is in the public domain. Considering that it was written in 1848, then one would think so.

http://copyrightuser.org/topics/public-domain/

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Billyblue on Thursday 01 January 15 14:12 GMT (UK)
I'd agree with Marmalady.
If you are quoting from the 1848 ORIGINAL then, unless the author assigned his copyright to someone 'forever', it is now out of copyright.

Google Books that mazi quotes, would have to be altered / edited in some way from the original, for them to claim copyright.  Or they may just be claiming copyright to a digital rendition of the work.

If you're only quoting little bits from it, you can cover this by stating what it's from and putting it in quotes;  or you can paraphrase what it says with the rider something like 'according to' or 'this book tells us' or something like that.  If you are not copying word for word without quotes, then you won't be breaching copyright.
Do you know which country the copyright is claimed in?  UK? America?  somewhere else?
Each country's laws may differ slightly.

Dawn M
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Billyblue on Thursday 01 January 15 14:13 GMT (UK)
If Google Books states the book is in the public domain, then they can't also claim copyright!

??? ??? ???

Dawn M
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Thursday 01 January 15 15:42 GMT (UK)
If the version on Google books is the older version and is now in the public domain I don't see why you can't quote from that book (giving standard references). It really shouldn't matter that someone has since produced something similar, based on the older work.

Where are you wanting to quote it anyway? In personal research or in a published work?

Mike
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 01 January 15 16:22 GMT (UK)
The original book may well be out of copyright - so you can quote from the book.

BUT, Google will own the copyright of the digital images - so you can't copy-and-paste without their express permission.

So, as with all the transcriptions we are able to do on RootsChat, if you type out the information yourself, then there is no problem.
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: DiGi on Thursday 01 January 15 21:27 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone who replied to my query.  I think what I will do if I ever publish anything is take legal advice on the copyright position just to make sure I'm in the clear.  I did think that copyright would have expired since the original writer died in the 19th Century.  However if he passed it on to descendants maybe today's copyright owner bought the copyright from a descendant.

Thanks again for your views.

Digi
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: Barb Given on Wednesday 04 February 15 22:49 GMT (UK)
If you wish to use the information, then just make sure you put the information entirely in your own words. You should mention where you obtained the information. That's all. I worked in that area of expertise.
Title: Re: Copyright query
Post by: majm on Wednesday 04 February 15 22:57 GMT (UK)
If you wish to use the information, then just make sure you put the information entirely in your own words. You should mention where you obtained the information. That's all. I worked in that area of expertise.

You can of course transcribe the words exactly as you read them and note that it is your own transcription, and then cite your source 

You can of course write to the copyright holder and ask permission to quote them.   ;D  ;D  ;D

Cheers,  JM   (I am in NSW Australia, and I am used to dealing with copyright matters re manuscripts and maps and plans in respect of Australian Copyright laws).